that's awesome!! Thanks for sharing!!

How long have you been using this? Can you find it at most hydro stores? Is this all you feed them? (am I asking too many questions? lol)

Good point about the profit. I live in a super small town tho, so the only place I have out here is the lowes in the other town over...maybe they would have it? Or maybe myfeed store can order it for me? idk... I'll do my research because for now I just want to learn the basics, but to me this sounds like a much MUCH better way. (AND more cost effective!)

So... how do you know how much to add?

I use a spread sheet to calculate how much to add, but on the front of the SHS bag is a general and a tomato formula you can use.

I live in a kinda small town as well, and use this nutrient. All I did to findout where to buy it was to call the Scott's Peter's company and find a supplier that sold the Hydro-Sol. I drove into the distributer and bought both the Calcium Nitrate and also the Hydro-Sol.

Bryan

@grizzman: I thought this post was going to reference ideal tomato nutrient consumption amounts. What do you think the ideal NPK ratio is for tomatoes during vegetative and fruiting stages, and why? I like your yields!

I live near Ann Arbor MI, does anyone know of a location that sells hydrosol or similar product?

I wanted to throw out there how I have been using the hydro-sol, and also ask everyone what they think and if I have some of the numbers corect. Part of this comes from both the 5-11-26 Hydro-Sol document and also from http://www.hydro-gardens.com/51126mixing.htm My source water (well) is 6 CF, and I need to add 19CF (seedlings) so I set the controller to 25CF. When the plants are mature I switch them over to 28CF and adjust the recipe slightly. I usually grow hot peppers, tomatoes, cukes, melons, bell peppers and have been trying water melons for fun using the same resivoir. Basically I am looking for info on if the concentrations seem right and what anyone else is using.
Thanks!
Bryan

They have Hydro-sol at HotHydro on the west side of Ann Arbor. They are on Jackson near Zeeb road.

do plants uptake water and nutrients at the same rate? i.e. when adding nutrients do you add the required ratio of water at the same time knowing the ratio in the reservoir as stayed the same after the plants have absorbed the solution? does it vary between plants?

Also to get back to tomatoes here...how big should they be before placing them in the hydro system? i don't want to burn the little ones...

I admit, I know next to nothing about hydro. But I grew about 8 plants in the GH this winter (or I should say tried to!). I mixed up a nuit solution with the same pH and ppm as what I was using to grow the plants. Used Tomato-tone with a tiny bit of fish emulsion as the fert until they started blooming, then switched to a Fruit and Bloom brand. They did quite well... well, until a fateful day when the temps got well over 125 degrees for a few hours, which caused the pump to shut down and boiled the plants. Just another one of those things I didn't think that could go wrong and did!

But hey, I've had three broccoli and two tomato plants in hydro for over a week and none have died - yet!

I was thinking about buying Chem-Gro nutrients for my outside garden. Do these nutrient levels look sufficient to grow tomatoes and peppers on a drip system? Besides the Magnesium Sulfate, do I need to add anything else?

CHEM-GRO OUR MOST POPULAR HOBBY FORMULA 10-8-22

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS

Total Nitrogen (N) 10.00%
Available Phosphoric Acid (P205) 8.00%
Soluble Potash (K20) 22.00%

TRACE ELEMENTS

Calcium as (Ca) 5.000%
Iron (Chelated) as (Fe) 0.200%
Manganese as (Mn) 0.100%
Zinc (Zn) 0.010%
Copper as (Cu) 0.010%
Boron as (B) 0.020%
Molybdenum (Mo) 0.005%

Off topic @ grizzman, I haven't forgot about our little Organic vs. Chemical experiment. Just been very busy!I'm thinking strawberries :~)

Off topic @ wordwiz, I'm glad to see your giving it another shot. We can really use your knowledge with lights and plants on this forum :~)

What is the source of nitrogen in that chem-gro. urea has to be broken down by bacteria to be available. ammonium nitrate is a quick boost (or so I understand) so it may cause nitrogen levels to approach toxic levels initially, but is then used very quickly and leaves the solution with a nitrogen deficiency. At least that is how I remember it. please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
Also your calcium is only half your nitrogen level. you normally like those two to be closer to the same. I believe my N:Ca ratio is normally about 1.3.
Also your phosphorus level is less that 80% of your nitrogen. as the 8% is P2O5, not pure P. P is only 44% of P2O5, so the phosphorus is only 3.5%. your max P:N ratio then is only .35
So basically its not perfect. I'm sure plants will grow, but you may have more vegetative growth and less fruiting. you might find yourself supplementing with cal-mag and/or phosphoric acid or potassium phosphate (or some other pre-bottled formula along those lines) to control vegetative growth and encourage fruit growth.

UGF,

Thanks! I'm

Mike

Ok so now I'm all messed up in the game. Going the mix your own nutrient route is much cheaper, but way more complicated. I'm determined to figure it out though. Here is another solution that I hope is more suitable for tomatoes and peppers. For 100 gallon of solution it says to add 8 oz. of Calcium Nitrate and 5 oz. of Magnesium Sulfate. I have no idea what that comes out to in percentages?

CHEM-GRO SOUTHERN VEGETABLE FORMULA 7-14-36

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS
Total Nitrogen (N) 7.00%
Nitrate Nitrogen 6.50%
Ammoniacal Nitrogen 0.50%
Available Phosphoric Acid (P205)14.00%
Soluble Potash (K20) 36.00%
Total Magnesium as (Mg)1.00%
Water Soluble Magnesium as (Mg) 1.00%
TRACE ELEMENTS

Boron as (B) 0.20%
Copper as (Cu) 0.04%
Iron (Chelated) as (Fe) 0.30%
Total Manganese as (Mn) 0.20%
Soluble Manganese as (Mn) 0.20%
Molybdenum as (Mo) 0.01%
Zinc as (Zn) 0.04%
Chlorine as (Cl), not more than 2.00%

Derived From:
Potassium Nitrate, Potassium Phosphate, Muriate of Potash,
Ammonium Phosphate, Potassium Sulfate, Magnesium Sulfate, Sodium Borate, Copper Sulfate, Iron DTPA, Molybdic Acid, Manganese Sulfate, & Zinc Sulfate.

UGF,

FWIW, I plan to keep experimenting this summer (I think). Use a preformulated nuit such as Eco-Grow and Eco-Bloom as well as my own mix. The latter will be very simple: Tomato-tone (one TBSP per gallon with one capfull of Fish Emulsion) for the vegetative stage, supplemented with Compost Tea made from mostly table and cooking scraps. We go through bunches of eggs, onions, tomatoes, pasta, pizza. I like the stuff, though I read a couple of articles that adding molasses to the mix (to speed it up) can lead to poison in the fruit, so I avoid that.

One thing about the experiments - they are easy to end!

Mike

UGF,
I thnk P= 14% is a bit too high, the agricultural hydro formula used around here for tomato`s,peppers,cukes etc has a ratio of 7%-6%-34%.
It doesn`t contain any calcium as its in the water supply and/or supplimented via calcium nitrate. During the fruiting period the calcium nitrate is replaced or supplimented with potassium nitrate to raise the K.

A high P formula (something like 5.5%-16%-30%) is useful for things like melons, cut flowers and soft fruit etc.

Raising the N&K values using calcium nitrate/potassium nitrate to offset the high P would raise the overall ppm forcing you to dilute heavily to bring the ppm back into line. The danger with that is the trace elements will be heavily diluted too.

Commercial formula`s are more economical compared to high priced shop bought nutrients but they can have some limitations too.

8oz/100gal calcium nitrate (N 15.4% Ca 19%) would add 92ppm of N and 114ppm of Ca.
5oz/100gal mag sulphate (Mg 16% S 13%) would add 60ppm of Mg and 49ppm of S.

Assuming the dry formula is mixed at 1g/L (13.35oz/100gal) the overall make up with the 2 additives would be something like;
N=162ppm, P=61, K=299, Mg=70, S=49, Ca=114, Fe=3, B=2, Mn=2, Zn=0.4,Mo=0.1 and Cu=0.4

Magnesium Sulphate (epsom salt) contains commonly 9.7% Mg and 13% S
1 Gram dissolved in 1 Liter equals Mg=96ppm S=128ppm *considering a purity of 99%

PS: Any amount of over 50 ppm of P is clearly a technical excess, unfortunately most manufacturers overdo this part for some unknown reason. Most probably to lower pH. 30-35 ppm of P would be more than sufficient in most cases.

Trace elements: it's more important to check on their actual content. I was firstly also falling for "the dilution effect" with trace elements, when adding more ingredients. But that's a calculation trap, as trace elements have to be calculated in relation with the total amount of water you actually use with the nutrients or for fertigation. They get only altered if you completely put the weight and use a very low concentration eventually. More important is the actual composition (of T.E.) and if it fits a hydroponic formulation for specific vegetables. Lettuce formulas use/need very low iron and high Cu, while with a tomato formula it's commonly the contrary. Zn, Mn, or B may also vary notably.

As grizzman suggested, potassium sulphate is the ingredient to go for higher potassium- but with this formulation K looks high enough for most requirements.

Epsom (heptahydrate)is ok for small batches.
A 55lb sack of mag sulphate costs me the equivalent of $18, the same weight of epsom would well over $200 :)

What I was talking about was fertilizer grade magnesium sulphate (some call this epson salts I believe regardless of the actual grade) fertilizer grade has 9.7% Mg and 13% S and is the most commonly used. The correct denomination is Magnesium sulphate heptahydrate (MgSO4.7H2O). I pay 0.28 USD per kilo.

Then there is Magnesium sulphate (MgSO4) which may be the official epson salt for others, but that I cannot tell, as a non native speaker. But what I know is that it contains 19.2% Mg and 25.3% of S. How much medical grade would cost, that I even don't want to know ;-)

Anyway the correct percentage is important for the one who wants to use it.

Thanks for all the help, but I'm going to leave it up to a vote here, because I'm more confused than ever :~) If you were to grow a variety of tomatoes, peppers and cucumbers, in 18 gallon containers, on a drip irrigation system, which formula below would you go with.

1. 10-8-22 Hobby Formula

2. 7-14-36 Southern Vegetable Formula

Both!

The former while they are growing, the latter once they start setting blooms. But what do I know? My plants die!

Mike

@ urbangardenfarmer ,
I recommend the 7-14-36 together with calcium nitrate and magnesium sulphate. Various ratios and fomulas are out to you by email already.

This follow up is a little late, but I just joined this forum today (after reading for months)and thought I would share.
The product formally called Hydrosol (made by Scotts)is now called Scotts 5-11-26 Hydroponic Special and can be found at agriculture stores throughout the US, but not likely at Hydroponics store. In my experience they (hydro stores) donâÂÂt like talking about the commercial grade/dry nutrient formulas because they are very inexpensive and would cause them to lose a lot of money since reoccurring nutrient sales are their bread and butter. What would have literally cost me hundreds of dollars over the past summer in liquid nutrients, has cost less than $10 using dry 5-11-26.
The downside is that 5-11-26 does not contain the beneficial microbes included in many liquid formulas, but they can be supplemented using other products and methods such as a biofilter (If you have info on this please post!).
You need to mix the 5-11-26 with calcium nitrate at a ratio of 60% to 40% by weight respectively (instructions on package).
I grow tomatoes, spicy and bell peppers, Japanese eggplant, melons, cantaloupe, strawberries, squash, zucchini, beans, peas and broccoli all using the 5-11-26 and calcium nitrate mixture. I have two systems; one with the tomatoes, eggplant, peppers and melons, the other has the squash, beans, peas, strawberries and other. Both systems use a mixture of hydroton and Rockwool croutons in net pots with a recycling drip system. I use the same mixture of 5-11-26 and Calcium Nitrate throughout the season and do not adjust for vegetative or flowering. I am sure my plants would grow better if I make more adjustments, but I donâÂÂt have the time and it grows great regardless. I use a batch of nutrients for at least two weeks before starting from scratch. I use tap water that has sat outside for a day or two to evaporate the chlorine before I use.
Hope this is helpful. If you have had similar or conflicting experience please share!

I have a 1000 holes tomato plot and a 250 gallons water tank connected to a drip irrigation system how much pound of calcium nitrate should I use to fertilize plot and frequency

Actually, HH, there is a video on the cherry tomatoes a little lower on the page. The first vid is obviously about pot, though. Of course, I only went there because I read your post and thought, "Seriously?" Same spammers as usual. They all seem to have one particular thing in common. . . Advanced Nutrients. Go figure.

joe.jr317
I admit I don't take the time to look through everything on a page, or site from spammers. I don't think they deserve my time. After all that's their goal, to get people to visit and read there site. If I do that, then I'm giving them exactly what they wanted in the first place. I just click on the link to see if I have seen the site before, also so if I see it in the future and remember it I wont give it the time of day then either.

I also didn't notice the Advanced Nutrients connection, but I'm not surprised. You probably remember me saying that I don't approve of their shady ethics either.

Are you still using Southernag's soluble hydroponic solution? If so do you have any new updates? I am switching from General Hydroponics to SHS for my outdoor recycle hydroponic garden. I have 20 gallons in my reservoir which is a 100 quart igloo cooler. I am using filtered well water due to the extremely hi Fe. I have ten 3.5 gallon buckets with expanded clay pellets in 6 to 10 inch baskets

. Any advice would be welcomed as this is my first attempt...

Here are a couple of pictures: