That's very interesting chuck. My son made something similar by using a 50gallon plastic drum drilled full of holes.

What's at the bottom of the pipe?

Why not just put a small bucket below the tube and recycle your nutrients and that water?
were you going to make this a hydro system or just fill it with dirt like the all seasons one? I ask because I have it stuck in my brain that aluminum doesn't play nice with acids and I'm not sure how this would affect things. Not to say it is a problem, just something worth investigating.

Hey greystoke and grizzman, good to hear from you. Originally I was going to water to waste and just cap the internal soaker wand. I was also going to fill the tube with a potting mix. But after looking at grizzman's 5 gallon pail, I went to the storage unit and dug out a pond pump. I also stoped by the home improvement store and picked up a 360 deg sprayer head. I am going to install a 10 gallon tub at the base and mount a single sprayer head at the top of the tube. grizzman, I thought about the possibility of the aluminum etching some from the nutrients. I am going to hook up the sprayer head and run the system with out any plants for a few days or perhaps a week and then inspect the aluminum for signs of etching. I am hopeing that the duct tube is coated for use in a air conditioning system. I may have to go buy a can of clear acrylic spray and give it several coats on the inside. I am thinking that the next vertical tube will be made using a blue plactic tarp stapled to the inside of 4 thin posts and then chicken wire stapled on the outside of the posts for plant support, very cheap and easy to make. I'd leave the bottom of the tarp tube drop down into a 5 gal bucket where the pond pump would be. Well, more later after I get the bottom tank installed, and the sprayer head mounted to the support post. I am going to use sections of those long swimming pool toys for the plant plugs in the holes. They only cost a couple bucks and are 4 or five feet long. They cut real easy. If you don't know what I am referring to, I will take a picture of some and put it on the construction pages. My wife calls them noodles. They come in various colors and shapes. The one I have is about 3 inches in diameter and was about 4 foot long when I got it. I use peices of it for fishing floats sometimes. chuck

OK, I got the base tank installed. Next is the pond pump and 360 degree spray head st the top of the grower body. I looked at the outside thermometer, it said 64 degrees F. I wish. chuck

Here is a link that might be useful: click on the base tank link to see pix

a good plant plug I got from charlielittle was to use foam insulation for water lines. they cost about a buck and run 4'-5' long.
When I made plugs, I cut a slit to open them and then tied them shut. My thought being that as the plants got larger, the plugs would constrict the plants girth and possibly hinder growth. But after tinkering with them, I simply removed them. much easier to just stick a bare root in a net pot and place media around it.
I look forward to seeing you system when its done.

OK, thanks for the plant plug info. I did a test with the 400gph pond pump and found that when the spray head is elivated to 6 foot, the pressure drops too low. I picked up a 1/2 inch barb tee and I'm going to make a halo that fits tight into the tube. Then I am going to make fine holes using a hot needle in the halo to see if I can get it to provide suffucuent coverage. chuck

OK, got the nutrient pump and halo sprayer installed and tested. I got some pictures of the construction of the halo sprayer and the pump operation. I accidently made the water works page on my upsidedown tomato site, but the link below will take you directly to the page with the halo sprayer pictures. If you care to see the upside down tomatoes, copy and paste :www.upsidedowntomatoes.homestead.com. The plants are still small, but they are upside down. chuck

Here is a link that might be useful: link to halo sprayer pix

When you make your holes, if they're all facing up or are set at the same height (and assuming all the holes are the same size) you should get even flow from all of them.
I have a 600gph pump thats runs a single pump pretty well at about 3.1/2', but that's one sprayer head. I imagine with more than maybe 2, it wouldn't get the job done.

I made all the holes on the bottom side and tried to aim the penitrations to squirt toward the tube wall. As it turned out, the pin holes are very small, and they squirt quite well. I found out that after about an hour of operation, I had to use a pin to ream them out. I think that as the pin melted through the plastic, a melted film built up around the holes on the inside. After having some pressure on them for a while, the thin walls collasped and blocked the holes. Well, I cleaned them all out, maybe that will be the end of the blockage, but I might have to get a fine drill bit to actualy chew up the material so that it will flow away. I think that the holes could be larger as there seems to be good pressure even at the 6ft level. Anyway, I'll go back out in a couple hours and check the flow. What I could really use is a welding tip cleaner which is like a very fine round file. It may be that it will be a regular routine to clean the spray holes on a perodic basis. Maybe I'll get one of those long hat pins for the job. It takes about a minute to do the job. Otherwise, I'm pretty happy with the water distribution. Because of the ribbed construction, the water tends to flow over the entire inner surface of the tube. Question for grizzman, does the pipe insulation material soak up water? If not, I may buy some synthetic sponges and cut them up for the plant plugs. chuck

No they don't soak up water. They appear to be made of the same material as 'noodles'.
when I used them, I filled the hole with a perlite-vermiculite blend(2:1) and placed my germinated seed in that. Then I simple set them on a shallow plate and kept a little water in it.
Just make sure your sponge doesn't hold too much water or you may encounter some rot problems with the young plants.

Looks interesting, I was just about to ask you about the pump in this operation. I've been thinking about doing something similar myself, but the 6 or more feet of head that I'd need is a bit prohibitive, particularly when the wife tends to use the phrase "your hobby" to describe anything hydroponic...

As in "Your hobby certainly isn't cheap, is it..."

Last thing I need is to try to convince her an $80 water pump is important.

hydroponica, boy isn't that the truth. If you don't watch out, spending can get out of hand. The 400 gph pump I am using was left over from another project several years ago, and I can't honestly remember what it cost. As for the rest of the project, the cost was a bit more than I wanted to spend, I still don't know how well this will work out, but if it turns out that the aluminum doesn't melt away from the chemicals, I'll be surprised. In the future, I think I will try using 4 vertical stakes with blue tarp material stapled on the inside and chicken wire stapled on the outside of the stakes to make a square tube. If the halo sprinkler works ok in the present model, I'll probably stick with it. I used an 1/8 inch drill bit to remake the holes as the holes made with the hot pin were getting blocked up too easily. The whole thing now is to see how the plants adapt to this operation. chuck

In Italy, there is a place that grows tomatoes in hanging bags. The bags are plastic, filled with a light peat/vermiculite/perlite mix and the seedlings are plugged into it through small holes in the bag. It's fed by a continuous drip from a galvanized frame of pipe through the entire system and the runoff is waste. It's adjusted to minimize waste drip.

Your system is interesting. The reclamation of the feed spray is a great idea.

Dr. Howard Resh has a book in it's 6th or 7th printing over about 20+ years called "Hydroponic Food Production" that is worth it's weight in gold to any hydroponic gardener. He keeps the book up to date with the current methods and the combined drawings and photos make it a very good idea generator.

Good luck to you!

Here is a $30, 600GPH water pump. I know I promote these guyz a lot, but they are inexpensive, have fast service, and this pump brand is very nice. Though honestly my experience was with the smaller one.
I don't think you can get a better pump for $30.

Hi grizzman, thanks for the pump information. The price is affordable alright. Yesterday I had to remove the halo sprayer I made and install the commercial popup head I originaly got for the project. The holes in the black plastic tubing continued to block up too much. I lost about a 1/2 doz brave little volunteers. Luckly I have a couple dozen still in a tray waiting their turn for glory. This time, I shortened the supply tube and set the head in the normal vertical position. Originally I was going to use it inverted. After it was assembled, I was getting a spray circumorance of around 12 inches which was OK for the 7 inch duct. It seems to be keeping a good film of water on the inside walls of the duct. I may have to make a fine screen filter for the pump if I continue to get blockups. So far, I am not very convinced that this would be a project that I would recommend to anyone else to try. I would like to try a new vertival project using a blue tarp stapled to the inside of a 4 stake frame and chicken wire stapled on the outside for plant support. If the plants are still looking good a few day from now, I will start adding nutrients. I've decided to get a new 30 gallon plastic trash can and make about 25 gallons at a time. Now I have to look for my conversion chart and see how many teaspoons to the cup. chuck

Well, I hate to report, but it looks like this project is not going to fly. One thing is that the tube is shrinking back down. Also, the sprayer is not working out very well. Lastly, leakage is high, and the cost of replacing the nutrients would be high. I will probably start trying to foliar feed the plants for a while until I see that the project should be terminated. Thanks to all for the intrest and encourgement along the way, chuck

datilman007 - You've got it absolutely right about Resh's book. I was searching and searching for a truly authoritative text on hydroponics that wasn't also about a certain kind of plant I don't want to grow (or have people think I'm growing).

I was lamenting the absence of such a book to a friend of mine (Erik Biksa, one of the big-brains over at Advanced Nutrients and the guy who got me excited about hydroponics to begin with) and he told me about Dr. Howard Resh's book.

It certainly ain't no $5 paperback, and it's definitely not pretty (it's in its sixth edition, btw) with that ugly green-cyan cover, but it is exactly what I'd been looking for. As Erik told me, it's the Bible of hydroponics. I've yet to actually put it on a bookshelf, because I'm constantly using it to look stuff up.

Chuck - I know that type of system is feasible because I've seen a bunch of them in use. I think the key problem you're running into is the pipe. For one thing, I've always heard aluminum referred to as the source of all evil when it comes to growing plants. (Though to be honest, I never heard why so I don't know.) A big PVC pipe would probably be better, though certainly more costly.

I was also wondering about that long plastic baggie thing they use in commercial hydroponics. They usually lay it out on the floor, and it comes pre-stuffed with coco or something else. Then they use a tool to cut holes in the top, plumb some drippers, and insert cubes with plants started in them. I was thinking that if you got a 5-6 foot length of that, hung it by one end, and then put a drip line at the top and a drain line to a reservoir at the bottom you could have a nice disposable vertical grower. Poke holes in the sides, plug them like you did with yours, and grow whatever. When the crop is done, toss the whole tube and replace it.

Thoughts?