I think Blue J has smaller rhizomes, but healthy & bloom well.

You also must realize that Schreiners employe's over 100 people during the season being one of the biggest iris growers while the smaller companies only have a hand full or none at all. Big difference

The Schreiners rhizomes are huge and super healthy. I had blooms withen weeks of getting my rebloomers in the ground.

Schreiners website is easy to navigate in Firefox. Blue J website locked up Firefox when I tried to allow scripts, now I can't view it on Firefox at all.

Also I do not understand the Blue J ordering instructions. It says DO NOT use the cart for discounts, instead press buttons (which buttons???) save, print and mail...then what? figure the discount yourself and send a check? Give your credit card number and let them figure it? What if they are out, do they refund or substitute? etc.

Also, I wonder if Schreiners is more expensive and bigger rhizomes because they spend for fertilizer, pesticide and bone meal? Maybe Blue J cannot afford to fertilize at those prices, and that's why the rhizomes are small? Just guessing.

Also, if you, for example, buy eight $10 iris from Schreiners and take half price discount and pay $40, you are paying $5 per (big, I'm told) rhizome, plus you get a free iris, so maybe it's not that much more expensive than paying 3.50 at BlueJ and getting 2 or 3 very small rhizomes. By the time the small BlueJ rhizomes are big enough to flower, the Schreiners rhizome may have set 2 or 3 small new rhizomes of its own.

At least that is what I'm telling myself since I just succumbed to temptation and bought Schreiners fragrant collection. :)

As Denise pointed out, business operations can strongly affect retail prices. Lower prices do not mean there has been less care taken.

I ordered from Blue J 2 years ago and was amazed at the almost 100% bloom I got as well as everything being as ordered and labeled. My hat is off to them and I hope they can continue to provide such service at the great price.

I used to regularly order from a place in the midwest whose rhizomes were tiny by comparison. And some of those rhizomes would bloom the first year. The size of the rhizome does not guarantee bloom!

Good luck to everybody with what they order/ed this year!

Hi all,
According to Carlos, the rhizomes grown by people on the west coast just get bigger. They are not necessarily better, and they do not bloom more. I live on the west coast and have ordered from a number of growers all over the country and all have grown and bloomed the same. By the second year, they are all ginormous, and I never fertilize.

Schreiners is much more expensive but they have stock. All of the irises I want from Blue J are sold out, because they are a smaller grower. So there are trade-offs, but either way you will most likely be very happy with your flowers.

Renee

Iris gal, no disrespect to BlueJ. I love their prices and the good selection, and like the idea of 2 or 3 rhizomes in case one does not live, there is another. I'm new to iris collecting and did not know that even a small one would bloom.

However, like Renee said, some that I wanted were sold out. Also I could not figure out the ordering instructions for BlueJ. Could someone explain how that works? the not using the cart, pressing buttons to save and print...WHAT buttons?? then do you figure the discount yourself or???

Also, like I said, when I tried to allow scripts on the BlueJ wbsite, Firefox froze and now I cannot view the site on Firefox at all. This has never happened with any other website. Has anyone else had this problem?

Wow - interesting input from all....thanks. And Happyday - it's nice to know I wasn't cracking up when I went through their site... I had the same questions about navigation, figuring discount, et cetera. And I did notice that they were sold out of almost everything - at least the ones I wanted. And some said 'not available in '09' - I'm sure you guys are right about the size of the operation, etc. Also nice to know you never fertilize, Hosenemesis! Me neither and I can't believe how beautiful these are.

Thanks again to all....

Westy

PS I think I'm going to stop at Blue J on my way to Denver to visit my daughter later this summer...it's just off I-70.

Just a personal observation that my larger rhizomes are producing much larger flowers. I first noticed this with Rare Treat. Then started really paying attention and have noticed it with all my iris. Some of my tiny rhizomes shocked me this year by producing flowers and even though they bloomed at the same time as their much bigger siblings the flowers on the same type iris are much smaller. Which works out fine one of those taller huge flowers would pull over a smaller rhizome.

I haven't ordered from Schreiners in years--not that I was a big iris grower in those days. But since I discovered BlueJ I'm theirs for keeps.

I admit the ordering instructions are confusing at best. And they seem to change from year to year. I used to mail in my order, enclosing a check. This year I was able to order online and pay with Paypal. I'm not sure if that's the only way now, or just an option.

BlueJ always sends bonus irises. I even got one with this year's small order of seven. And I like the friendly correspondence with Sheri, one of their family members.

Some of you have seen some of the photos I've posted here. They're all BlueJ irises. All big. All beautiful.

Happyday, I can navigate BlueJ's site just fine in Firefox. It's all I use.

Susan

The biggest problem I can see with Blue J (their web. sight aside) Is it would be to darn easy to over buy. I,m already sticking a new iris bed in the horses pasture this summer . If I started buying at Blue J all pretence of any self control would go right out the window. Three of each anyone?

Madeyna, don't plant iris where horses can eat them. All parts of the iris are poisonous.

I can see the BlueJ site in IE. I'm guessing that, even though it says DO NOT use the shopping cart, they actually mean for you TO USE the shopping cart, then copy the order list FROM the shopping cart.

Is that correct?

Here is a link that might be useful: Plants that are Toxic to Your Horse

Let me tell you something else about Schreiner's.

I ordered from them last year. Yesterday I dug up an iris that looked sickly and I found little black worms inside the rhizome (not an iris borer...think about 1 1/2 times the size of a maggot).

Last night I wrote an email to Schreiner's and asked what they thought this worm might be and what might kill it. I got an incredibly detailed and personal letter back from Schreiner's in less than 24 hours.

When I replied to the first letter with an email with even more questions, once again a long, detailed, and to the point personal email answering those questions was sent back to me in less than 2 hours! I was (again) told to be sure to ask any other questions, and I am still surprised by it.

That kind of customer service is almost unheard of these days.

The huge beautiful rhizomes they sent last year with 48 out of 54 blooming this spring (I had the others planted too deeply) had already won my repeat business. This type of detailed attention to customer service will ensure it from today forward.
kay

I had the kind of response from Schreiners when when I had rot problems as well. I didn,t know that iris are a poisen. EEK! I came really close to planting the extras in the berry patch last fall and I occassionally let the horses in there to eat the grass down. When I steal part of the pasture I,m going to move the fence over so they won,t have access. I thought I was going to do it to save the plants but I guess its to save the horses as well.

Schreiners are the biggest marketers in the business. You pay for that marketing.

There's nothing wrong with Schreiners, but if you want good value, go to Mid America Iris in Oregon.

For years I used Cooley's, too, another larger iris grower. I prefer Cooley's to Shreiners. But it's reallly nice to hear about their detail responses via email at this wildy busy time of year. They are probably working 80 hour weeks right now.

Kprp, I looked at Mid America since you recommend it, to compare prices on three iris that I am looking for. They did not have those three that Schreiners and BlueJ have for $10 and $3.50 respectively. In fact Mid America looks to have many differently named varieties than are found elsewhere.

Mid Americas prices look at first glance to be more expensive than Schreiners, with many $10 and a higher percentage of $20-$30+ iris than Schreiners. The lowest price I saw was a very few at $6-$8. Far more were over $20. Their catalog is $6 and they charge $5 per cancellation of credit card order, something neither Schreiners nor BlueJ mentioned. Shipping prices comparable to BlueJ. Schreiners shipping was actually less expensive than the other two.

Mid America gives you one bonus iris per $75 order vs one per $50 order with Schreiners and at least one per almost every order, it appears, from BlueJ. MidAmerica appeared to offer NO individual buyer volume discounts like Schreiners and BlueJ both do. Mid America does offer a very generous club order volume discount, but it must be paid for by a garden club check. For the garden club discount they will send 3 to 4 times the amount ordered. But then, it appears BlueJ will send 3 times the amount ordered as a matter of course.

But the biggest problem for me is that not only do they not sort by fragrance, and I did not see a search function, but I looked through 3 letters of the alphabet of their catalog and only found three that were described as fragrant.

So I am wondering where the good value is at Mid America. They seem to be more expensive than both Schreiners and BlueJ. That is just my quick impression after a look through 3 letters of their catalog.

Mid America does have all positive feedback on Dave's Garden, but not a lot of entries.

Organic Kitten, speaking of Dave's Garden, did you leave positive feedback for Schreiners there about your email help from them? Do you have to be a Dave's Garden member to leave feedback?

Happyday,
Did you check the BlueJ's 'sold out' list? Their prices and selection are so good that some of the most popular varieties get sold out on January 1st, when they update their catalog for the current year.
I placed my last year order on January 2nd. About 25% of the varieties I ordered were sold out. This year I ordered on January 1st, at about 2 pm. I will not get almost 20% of my original selection.
BTW, talking about customer service. Sheri (BlueJ) was very helpful for me. I was impressed that she found time to answer my questions and work with my order when she was so overwhelmed with orders.

I also ordered from Malevil Iris Garden last year. The rhizomes were soooo good! Nice size, fresh, with many "toes". Generous bonus too. They did much better than BlueJ's ones for me. I highly recommend this company.

This year I am trying Mid America. We'll see....

The Schreiner's prices are too steep for me despite their discount system.

Living in Iowa, I have ordered from Rainbow Iris Farms. I have had EXCELLENT luck with their iris. I love their color chart to order by color. I haven't had much reason for customer service, except a few questions, but I was very pleased with their responses. Plus, I think it helps to buy from a source that is in the same zone you grow them in. I ordered some Iris from a place in Texas, and the rhizomes were HUGE but they didn't do very well at first. Just my 2 cents.

There is an add on for Firefox that will switch to IE with just a right click on the tab. It is called IE tabs. My daughter told me about it because both of us are working on websites and it is much easier to check out websites with this installed. Also some things on sites only work in IE.

Chere

Here is a link that might be useful: IE tabs

Chere, IE tabs is very useful, thanks for the tip! Though it still has a few bugs. For instance the center button of the mouse does not work in it. And you should go back to Firefox before closing the window or sometimes it will crash the browser, which is not as much of a problem as it used to be now that we have restore session.

In this case I tried to allow the BlueJ website on another Firefox addon called NoScript. Firefox locked up and I had to restart the computer. I have since removed BlueJ from the NoScript list (twice) and updated NoScript. I still don't look at BlueJ in Firefox, though, just in case.

Happyday, I don't know if you use the adblocking in firefox, but I have received a warning at some sites that they won't work if you have adblocking working. I haven't ever had a site not work, but apparently it's possible. And I haven't gone to BlueJ's site either (must resist urge . . . must resist urge), so I don't know if it will work or not. Just a possibility.

Hykue, that's interesting. BlueJ is selling their own product though, so blocking their site to Adblock users would be business suicide, unless they make the majority of their income not from selling their iris but from ads for other businesses on their site.

I suspect that because they are a thrifty family business, they have not spent $$ on a website developer who could iron out the bugs in the script as well as design a shopping cart that will apply the discounts properly. If they had such a shopping cart, then maybe Sheri would not have to work so hard on the orders.

I agree: the BlueJ's web site is so "homemade"... Both design and functionality are poor. The home page is horrible - tacky colors on the dark background. Some basic Java scripts would be helpful there - search for example. With their selection of 4000+ varieties :o)
Compiling a big order is a nightmare... Shopping cart would be great even without secure checkout option.

There is nothing at all in the least bit poisonous about any part of the bearded iris - this is an old wives tale. Some alkaloids in the rhizome might cause an upset stomach if an animal was to eat enough of them - but that is doubtful to happen as they do not taste good. In 12 years of growing irises with all kinds of critters about only one has ever been eaten and that was by a squirrel. He nibbled half and seemingly ate none as there were chips all over. I once heard of someones doggie eating several and having an upset tummy, but it didn't last more than a day. PLEASE DO NOT SPREAD THIS RUMOR.

The size of a rhizome has nothing to do with hardiness or vigor. West coast suppliers have larger rhizomes because we have such a long growing season - they have time to get large and juicy since they can actively grow from March to November -and in CA year round. This can be a detriment to those areas prone to harsh winters as the rhizomes aren't as toughened up as those grown in shorter season climates and if they get planted late they may not survive. The smaller, tougher rhizomes from east coast or midwest growers are often better able to settle into a new garden with a difficult climate. Whether they bloom or not their first year can often depend on the variety more than it's previous growing conditions. I prefer they do not bloom their first year as this sometimes results in bloom out for me. I want new rhizomes to settle in and increase before blooming. For best results purchase irises from a regional grower who knows what will do well in your conditions and don't worry about size.

All that said, conditions can and do influence size of bloom and bud count. My last garden had rich soil and lots of supplemental summer water - my current one has poor, depleted soil and drought all summer. In the last place I got taller stalks, more flowers, more reliable bloom, very large rhizomes with lots of increase, etc., and in some cases even the depth of color has been effected. I was amazed at how few buds are set here with my poor conditions. Irises are extremely variable plants.

Mike

Mike:
http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/consumer/poison/Iris_sp.htm
http://www.doberdogs.com/Toxic.html
http://uuhsc.utah.edu/poison/plants/index.cfm?action=main.ViewPlant&plant_id=30
http://www.cincinnatichildrens.org/svc/alpha/d/dpic/plants/poisonous.htm
http://www.holoweb.com/cannon/wildiris.htm
http://dogs.about.com/library/poisons/blplantiris.htm
http://www.gonegardening.com/xq/ASP/group_id.20/article_id.361/referer./qx/gg_shop/article.htm

Meanwhile, nothing that you posted proves that iris is good to eat. In fact, you have established that it is a stomach irritant. Using cute words does not minimize the fact that the dog ate something that sickened it. You may not know that unlike dogs, horses cannot throw up. Horses are a lot more delicate than they look, especially regarding feed and digestion. So PLEASE DO NOT START A RUMOR that iris is safe in a horse pasture, or is safe to eat.

PS years ago I read in the paper about an elderly man who mistook some daffodil bulbs in his refrigerator for onions. He fried some up, ate them, and died. So if you store daff bulbs in the fridge you might want to label them as poisonous.

The very first link claims all members of the irisdiciae family cause skin irritation if contact with leaves or seeds is made. A lie. I've worked with 36 different species of irises for over a decade and have never seen any sign of such a thing. Also I find it hard to believe that all 400+ members of the iridiciae family can be lumped under such a statement.

The second link only lists iris versicolor and states the rhizomes are toxic - that has nothing to do with bearded irises and I suspect it is also incorrect.

The last link asks a questions (Did you know that irises are considered toxic?) and then goes onto describe their use internally - some poison, eh?

Notice as well not a single link documents an actually event where a person or an animal was poisoned by an iris - nothing but heresay and speculation on every single one. No scientific studies or lab reports appear anywhere - just speculation and rumor.

Maybe horses are more adversely affected by the minor irritants in the iris rhizomes - I know they do have problems with some plants, but that still doesn't mean that they are going to eat enough rhizomes to cause a problem - or even encounter one in the first place considering irises don't grow well in grassy areas - places horses prefer.

The one instance I mentioned that I had heard directly from the person whose dog had eaten the rhizomes doesn't prove the same would happen to a horse or a person. An upset tummy doesn't equate to 'sickened it'. He had a tummy ache for a few hours. Big whoop. Hardly counts as a toxic poisoning. It could as easily have been caused by overeating as what was eaten.

Daffodils are extremely toxic - all parts of the plant. What does that have to do with an iris? Because daffs are toxic iris must be too? Daffs toxicity is well documented. Iris' are just rumor.

Mike, do you eat iris and recommend it? I fail to see the point of your posts otherwise.

It's as if you think that the iris's feelings will be hurt if we warn people to be careful not to let their animals eat it.

If you think iris is good to eat, post links proving it. Maybe you would like to eat some yourself and describe how well you felt afterward?

PS: Egyptian "toothpaste," which presumes spitting out, is not the same as "internal" usage, which describes ingestion. Romans used lead water pipes and many died of lead poisoning. Let us hope that the majority of civilization manages not to repeat the mistakes of the past.

happyday,

I like Mid America for these reasons:

1) The rhizomes they send are always big. I've spent at least $1,000 with them over the years and am not disappointed

I value good quality plants over price.

2) Paul Black is one of the premier breeders in the iris industry, and I want to support his efforts. He is doing some interesting work.

3) Mid-America throws in all kinds of jaw dropping bonus iris. Maybe it's because some of my order are $$$ with them, don't know, but I've received their new introductions for that year totally free. And, those freebies were amazing performers.

4) Mid America has a nice array of small bearded varieties which is my current interest, and Black is breeding them as well.

Still, I don't count on bonus iris to keep me happy, it's the big rhizomes that I like.

A useful Web site isn't a preference for me, other than for the purpose of looking at photos. Most all of the specialty iris and lily grwoers I buy from do not have sophisticated web and ordering systems. THat's fine with me. These guys operate on such a shoe string that I don't want to fault them for less than state of the art technology.

But I understand that YMMV.

Re; the old man and th daffodil bulbs

Well, this happened to me just last fall:

I fried up and ate an Amaryllis bulb. Well, more accuratley, I ate PART of it becuase it tasted BAD and IT thought: yuck! Why do people eat this fennel bulb!???

ha ha h

This error came about due to a spousal mis0communication having to do with DH grwoing, for the first time, fennel bulbs. NO he didn't try to poison me. I don't think.

But I'll tell you that Amaryllis bulbs are poisonous because my stomach was quite upset there for a couple of hours.

On the subject of Poisonous Irises let me establish a few facts from our farming operation.I grow 800 varieties or so Bearded Irises and 400 or so Siberian Irises on the Home farm where we run a Polled Dorset Sheep Stud and have mixed stock from time to time.Horse Cattle and Sheep all have put there head through or over the fence and eat Irises and in fact with rams, Bearded Iris foliage and flowers are a preferred picking and they will stand on the fences to try to eat them. As Rams are the end product for a sheep stud operation it would be foolhardy for us to allow them to eat any plant matter that would be a detriment to their health. None of the above animals have ever had health problems from eating iris foliage or flowers.
For someone to state a supposition that 'All parts of the iris are poisonous' and we know this because the collective intelligence of a few websites a person has visited that only partly confirms their point of view could not even be remotely described as irrefutable facts.

The greater absurdities are, the more strongly they evince the falsity of that supposition from whence they flow.
Francis Atterbury

Big difference between edible and poisonous. I am not advocating eating irises, just not spreading rumors that they are poisonous or toxic. Irises are unpalatable and in large quantity can cause stomach upset. I have read dozens and dozens of books about irises printed from the 1800's thru modern tomes and not a single one has ever mentioned irises being toxic. We only see this assertion on websites about toxic plants without any documentation other than hearsay from other lists.

Orris root (bearded iris rhizomes) have been used in the perfume industry for thousands of years - if there was a toxic effect we would know. Japanese ladies used powdered iris root (i. tectorum) as a cosmetic for centuries - if there was a possibility of skin irritation we would know about it.

Lead toxicity takes long periods of time and exposure to build up and show its effects - it is not something that would be obvious immediately upon ingestion. Look how long it took to get lead paints off the market. It was a campaign when I was a kid in the 70's - very recent news comparitively. Plant poisoning would be immediately obvious - as we see in the example of the amaryllis bulb being mistaken for fennel. No doubt there!

All I am asking is that we not perpetuate myths and rumor as fact. There are plenty of poisonous plants that we all need to be aware of. Irises just aren't one of them.

Well, if two True Believers on Gardenweb say it is true, then it must be true. What does the Utah Poison Control Center know anyway? Not to mention the North Carolina State University,or the Cincinnati Drug and Poison Information Center, all posted above. Lets believe mu and nz, because they insist, and are sarcastic about it too.

What have we learned? Iris are not toxic, though they did make a dog sick once. Iris are not edible, unless you are a sheep or horse, in which case iris are so edible that rams will stand on the top rail to eat them. Orris root was used medicinally. (So was mercury.) What you don't mention is that iris was used as an emetic, or vomit inducer. Iris was used as a cosmetic? Did you know Roman ladies used lead white on their faces? The fact that lead may take a long time to show up does not prove that plant effects must be immediate, that is faulty logic. Tobacco is a plant with both long and short term effects, and it is still on the market. None of this proves that iris is non toxic, although not, as you admit, edible.
Speaking of absurdities, if I had 1200 (!!) varieties of iris I would not plant them where livestock could reach them, even from the top rail. If it does not kill the stock, does it not kill some of the supposedly valuable iris? So if you were so careless as to plant your supposedly valuable iris where the animals could eat them, how can I believe that you were conscientious enough to notice if there were any drooling or bloody diarrhea in the livestock after ingestion?

What the two of you offer is only anecdotal evidence from your own experience. You sneer at webpages of poison control centers and universities and insist that you are right.

Well, look, I don't really care about your crusade to insist that everyone must speak of iris as nontoxic. I was just trying to help Madeyna, not just from her horse getting sick but also so that her iris didn't get pulled up and ruined.

And anyway, I think you are wrong. Prove that iris is nontoxic by linking to a scholarly paper, or university, or veterinarians research, or some other real authority with credentials, and maybe I'll consider it. But I will still tell people not to let their animals or children eat iris, just in case. Deal with it. What do you care what I say, anyway? Warning that iris is toxic or may make you sick might keep a kid from eating it while your unproven insistence that it is nontoxic might lead to a kid trying it and getting sick. Do you want that on your conscience? Do you have a conscience?

MOAR absurdities, suppositions, collective intelligence and irrefutable facts from websites with actual credentials which you don't have:

http://www.cbif.gc.ca/pls/pp/ppack.info?p_psn=228&p_type=all&p_sci=sci&p_x=pp
The Government of Canada Canadian Biodiversity Information Facility
Yellow iris (Iris pseudacorus) is a naturalized plant found in wet areas in parts of southern Canada. This plant has poisoned cattle and swine and may cause similar symptoms in humans if the rhizomes are ingested. The plant juices can cause dermatitis in sensitive humans. In British Columbia cattle were poisoned by a cultivated blue-flowered Iris species. The symptoms of that poisoning are described under this species (Bruce 1920, Cooper and Johnson 1984).

http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:aUY1EMXJzrUJ:plants.usda.gov/plantguide/doc/cs_irvi.doc+iris+toxic&cd=32&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a
The United States Department of Agriculture
Warning: The roots of Virginia iris are toxic when taken internally, without sufficient preparation.

http://www.aspca.org/pet-care/poison-control/plants/iris.html
The American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals
Scientific Name: Iris species
Family: Iridaceae
Toxicity: Toxic to Cats, Toxic to Dogs
Toxic Principles: Pentacylic terpenoids (zeorin, missourin and missouriensin)
Clinical Signs: Salivation, vomiting, drooling,lethargy, diarrhea. Highest concentration in rhizomes.

http://www.rossvet.edu.kn/poisonousplants/plant_display.cfm?toxic=175
Ross University School of Veterinary Medicine
Main toxic Principle: Gyocoside (iridin, irisin) in bulb
Clinical Signs: Mild GI signs such as vomiting and diarrhea, contact with plant juice or seed may cause skin irritation

http://pss.uvm.edu/ppp/pubs/oh20.htm
University of Vermont Extension Department of Plant and Soil Science
Common Name Iris Scientific Name Iris versicolor Toxic Parts Roots, stalks, leaves

http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:DQOpGDUabJcJ:www.wisconsinpoison.org/wipoison/pdfs/WPC_Plant%2520book%2520Jan%25202008.pdf+iris+toxic&cd=88&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a
University of Wisconsin Hospital and Clinics
Poison Prevention & Education Center
and
Wisconsin Poison Center
Children’s Hospital of Wisconsin
Name of Plant Iris
Toxic part(s) Root, possibly leaves
Symptoms Burning irritation of mouth and throat,vomiting, diarrhea

And some perhaps less credentialed sources for you to sneer at the collected intelligence of, which perhaps only partially confirms a point of view anyway. (Nothing proves that you are right like using sarcasm and big words instead of facts, eh?)

http://free-medical-dictionary.net/irisin.html
irisin
1. Irigenin 7-glucoside from orris root, Iris florentina.
2. A resinoid from blue flag, Iris versicolor; used as a cholagogue and cathartic.

http://www.henriettesherbal.com/eclectic/kings/iris-vers.html
Action, Medical Uses, and Dosage.�"Physiologically, iris acts upon the gastro-intestinal canal, and the glandular and nervous systems. It powerfully excites the biliary, salivary, and pancreatic secretions. Upon the gastro-intestinal tract it acts violently, causing acid vomiting, frequent, hydragogue catharsis, with intestinal burning and severe colic. A writer says: "The root of the blue flag extends its influence through every part of the system in small doses, and repeated at short intervals. It seems to act more particularly on the glandular system, exciting them to a discharge of their respective offices. In large doses it evacuates and exhausts the system, acting on the liver, and the alimentary canal throughout." Animals, after death from its ingestion, show marked congestion of the gastric and intestinal tissues. By its action upon the nervous system, it has produced neuralgia of the face, head, and extremities.

http://books.google.com/books?id=Y1sG8xn8jW0C&pg=PA213&lpg=PA213&dq=irisin&source=bl&ots=fZd4O0Ckin&sig=waKGXO0lXvbLGzmZMJ7ow1QR5Hg&hl=en&ei=L088SujZDdWwlAf8-bm0Dg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9
The Retrospect of Practical Medicine and Surgery
By William Braithwaite, James Braithwaite, Edmond Fauriel Trevelyan
Quote from The Lancet, 1862, when Iris was used as a laxitive, purgative, and vomit inducer.

http://www.theequinest.com/care/toxic-plants/i/iris/
The Equinest ( A horse appreciation website)
Iris
Concern level: Only during drought conditions, unpalatable. Generally planted ornamentally in landscaping.
Toxic parts: Leaves and roots.
Symptoms: Gastrointestinal upset, bloody diarrhea, excessive drooling.
Danger: Contains a glycoside called iridin which upsets the gastrointestinal system

http://books.google.com/books?id=a7-f66fRfzQC&pg=PA160&lpg=PA160&dq=iris+toxic&source=bl&ots=F_l4rlgDVz&sig=GqqxQq3YWdSDXO7yCMOSkWd3Ek8&hl=en&ei=1lI8SphBksGUB6TY7cgO&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1
Toxicity of houseplants
By David G. Spoerke, Susan C. Smolinske
Nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain, and diarrhea may be seen after an ingestion.

http://earthnotes.tripod.com/blueflag.htm
PROFESSIONAL USE ONLY!
• Rhizomes TOXIC!
• All parts of iris are toxic but particularly the rhizomes which are also an allergen and skin irritant!
• Fresh root causes nausea, diarrhea, vomiting, purging and intestinal pain!
• NOT TO BE TAKEN BY PREGNANT WOMEN!

http://www.sixwise.com/newsletters/06/06/21/poisonous-plants-common-indoor-outdoor-plants-that-most-people-dont-know-are-poisonous.htm
3. Iris (Iris)
Irises contain the potentially toxic compounds irisin, iridin, or irisine.
Poisonous Parts: Bulb, leaves, stem
Symptoms: Nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain, diarrhea, fever, skin irritation

http://www.gwenshealinggarden.ca/Article.Poisonous_Plants_Outdoors.htm
Iris (Iris) - some species - rhizomes are toxic.

Thats 14 sources plus the 8 sources I posted above makes 22 sources, several well credentialed, that say Iris is toxic. Mike and NZ, you've posted nothing but your own opinions and indignations. What makes you insist that iris is nontoxic anyway? If you have no proof then where did you get your opinions from, what source? I really think that you are just coming from an emotional reaction to "someone saying something bad about your favorite flower." How absurd, if true.

Anyway, I'm not interested in flamewarring. Flamewars are boring and stupid. If you have actual information, like from a veterinarian, or other scientific source, then that may be of interest.

Thanks Kprp for your good answer. I did not know about Paul Black and their good bonuses. I agree that could be very good value especially as he is breeding the type you are interested in. There is more to value than just money. You must have a beautiful garden!

Also agree with your comments about website tech. I don't fault them either, just thought that a way might be found to make the ordering process easier for Sheri. I hear she puts in alot of hours, and is a very nice person too. I can use the site perfectly in IE. The problem was probably the fault of Firefox NoScript, anyway, and not BlueJs at all. I really appreciate the small breeders and family businesses.

Glad you recovered from the Amaryllis bulb!

Happyday I am very sorry if you feel I was being sarcastic, sneering, or attempting to 'flame' you. It was not my intent, but believe what you like. I grow lots of toxic plants that I love and am not emotionally invested in irises being one way or another.

The information you post is all over the map about different iris species and when some of them may or may not be toxic and to what degree. I had assumed we were discussing garden irises. However since much of the information you present is so terrifying I guess we should all just rip every iris out of our gardens immediately because of the extreme danger, while wearing heavy gloves and biohazard suits of course (okay that was sarcasm there). I guess actual hands on personal experience with the plants by tens of thousands of gardeners and iris experts for centuries is irrelevant and untrustworthy. Next time I'll ignore that and just believe what I read on teh intertubes. (oops, more sarcasm) Thanks for your input. I'm done.

So, you have no proof that iris is non toxic, just an emotional and childish overreaction?

How about asking several iris growers if the plant is toxic?

Uh, yeah... I'm an iris grower. As I stated I have over 30 species of irises and have handled them - bare handed usually - for over 12 years now.

But you've already said that personal experience doesn't count.

Terry is an iris grower as well as a livestock rancher. He gave you his personal experiences with his irises and their interaction with his livestock.

But you dismissed his personal experience as well.

I have over 40 books written over the past 100 years about all different kinds of irises. Not one states anything about toxicity.

But none of those authors know what they are talking about apparently.

I have corresponded for years with hundreds of iris growers. I have heard stories of irises being eaten by pets, squirrels, gophers, mice, rats, slugs and grasshoppers. Other than one instance of an upset tummy (hardly a poisoning situation and possibly more related to a carnivore filling its tummy with plant matter) no one has ever mentioned a poisoning from their irises. And of course bees gather the pollen and don't seem to mind it's supposed toxicity. Hundreds of thousands of people handle their irises and I have yet to hear of a single instance of skin irritation - not even from two of my iris growing friends that are also very chemically sensitive.

But of course none of that counts because you have decided that irises are toxic.

No amount of links or experts or personal experience or anything is going to change your mind because you have already made it up. Personally I think you just enjoy being a scaremonger and alarmist. And I don't really see the point of continuing to argue. I'm happy to let folks who've followed along do their own research and make up their own minds.

Happy gardening.

You still didn't provide any proof in the form of external sources, other than your own anecdotal stories. How about listing some of your 40 books so we can read them and see if they mention iris toxicity?

If none of your email friends have mentioned iris toxicity, that does not prove that it is non-toxic. Handling without gloves without a reaction does not prove that it is safe for ingestion. It's these logical fallacies that make me doubt you, that and your lack of proof in the form of external sources, and your emotional reactions. WHY have you got so much emotionally invested in this?

Also, if Terry is a sheep rancher, why does he list his occupation as construction on his blog? Is he just in fact a construction worker with a blog in which he posts catalog entries? Is his claim of being a sheep rancher with 1200 varieties of iris pure fiction?
https://auth.gardenweb.com/members/nzirishunter
http://historiciris.blogspot.com/
http://www.blogger.com/profile/00616914124654381895

Is it ok if I contact the The New Zealand Iris Society to check his credentials?
http://historiciris.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2009-05-23T08%3A23%3A00%2B12%3A00&max-results=8
Are you the same Mu/Mike who came to his defense?
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=8674461137690378952&postID=6611178826332382441

Mike, is this your profile?
http://www.blogger.com/profile/08107625113455022938
If so, is Terry such a good friend of yours that he came halfway around the world to come to your Thanksgiving party last year?
http://1bigtree.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2008-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-08%3A00&updated-max=2009-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-08%3A00&max-results=31

I am pleased to see that at least you do have property and lots of pretty iris, though I didn't see pictures of 700 varieties of them, you do have some lovely iris. I especially liked the Katherine Hodgkin.
http://1bigtree.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2008-03-23T15%3A49%3A00-07%3A00&max-results=7

Still, given all of the above, your friendship and defense of each other, the attempts of the The New Zealand Iris Society to shut down Terry's blog, his misrepresentation of his occupation, the claims of both of you of having HUGE numbers of iris (700 and 1200, respectively) but most of all, your claims of being experts yet your obvious and willful ignorance of the fact that Iris is toxic, and refusal to look at the evidence I've presented...Is it wrong for me to suspect that the two of you might be a couple of Hyacinth Bucket-like posers? Not that there is anything wrong with that. I just want to know why you insist that iris is non toxic. Where is your proof, and where did you get that idea from?

Seriously, dude, have a heart. If your friend Sixteen Candles comes over with her little grandson and you turn around to see that toddler putting iris into his mouth, are you going to tell me you wouldn't run over in a panic and make him spit it out? Some things are more important than pretensions.

Couple more sources proving toxicity
http://www.cfa.org/articles/plants.html
The Cat Fancier's Association
Listed here are plants poisonous to cats that must be avoided if there are cats in your home. Note that lilies, in particular, are dangerous to cats.

http://www.earthclinic.com/Pets/poisonous_plants.html
Earth Clinic
Iris Is a wild and garden flower whose leaves and roots are poisonous.

http://www.wpr.org/book/090621a.cfm
NPR has a segment on gardening today including poisonous plants that gardeners might not be aware of on To The Best Of Our Knowledge. You can listen on the computer.

You're right of course. A person could never have more than one occupation - such as being a construction contractor while also owning a large sheep ranching operation. Who ever heard of being a business owner and having employees? Terry has spent years constructing an elaborate fictional internet persona so that he can convince people to eat their irises. I have too apparently. You caught us out. And Thanksgiving? Why it would be practically impossible to know two people who share the same first name.

You've caught me. My brilliant ruse is brought to light. Because of course a person couldn't possibly ever like irises enough to collect 700 or more varieties - why, there aren't even that many varieties out there! I just make that claim to mislead people. My friend Rod here in town who is up to over 1500 now. Well that must just be everyone's imagination - especially his. I'll have to let him know. And the DeRose's at Riverview Iris Garden who (before their move and tragic loss) boasted a catalog of over 10,000 varieties? Obviously charlatans and fakes. And therefore both Terry and I are lying about what we grow, or do, or know. You can tell because I once took umbrage in the comments on his blog to an assertion that compiling information about irises is a pointless activity. I'm so guilty. I should probably be banned from teh intertubes.

We all know that since lilies are toxic to cats and some guy once ate a daffodil bulb of course all parts of all irises are a deadly poison to people as well. All this even tho we've yet to see a single documented instance of anyone ever being poisoned by their irises. I'm sure that is just a conspiracy to hide that information.

And the folks that wrote all those books? Like Currier McEwen who wrote the definitive book on Siberian Irises and was the foremost authority on their care and culture? A liar, obviously, who deliberately left out of his book how unbelievably dangerous those plants are in an effort to kill children.

And the American Iris Society whose definitive tome The World of Irises fails to mention anything about this subject? Obviously they are conspiring in the coverup as well. How many more imaginary children and horses have to die before they are brought to justice for their negligence?!

Seriously tho, this is just pointless.

If my friend Wy brought her adorable grandson over I'd be far more worried about the foxgloves everywhere than the irises. If she had concerns I'd tell her the following: from my studies and my experience, and that of thousands of other iris lovers and iris experts, it seems that some species of irises may have some chemicals in their rhizomes that under certain circumstances may cause a person or animal to become sick, and if you ingest a high enough quantity of said rhizomes you might do some damage to your system. But bearded irises aren't one of them.

And she has irises all over her garden as well.

happyday's or is it Yappyday's

Tell everyone how many Irises you grow and what is you area of expertise and qualifications in the field of poisonous plants.
Note there are some 380 Iris species.http://www.signa.org/index.pl?Species

Now if you had stated that some species of Irises are considered poisonous and named them you could be correct but you have decided to make the unqualified and sweeping statement that 'All parts of the iris are poisonous.' which is not species specific and is Incorrect.

You have posted various web sites that according to you back up this theory.
Of the 14 sources in your most recent comments ten of the web sites refer to blue flag Iris which reference to two members of the Laevigatae Species they are I.virginia and I. versicolor also referred to is I. pseudacorus.
One web site is a reference to Dutch Iris bulbs or I. hollandica
One site refers Iris species
One States (Iris) - some species - rhizomes are toxic.

Have you even bothered to read any of the information on the web sites that you have referenced

In your initial eight web sites which you have referenced http://www.holoweb.com/cannon/wildiris.htm is the best example of a clear reference to Species I.virginia and I. versicolor also referred to is I. pseudacorus it clearly states 'Blue flag (Iris versicolor) is a native herb found in eastern and central Canada. This plant has been mentioned as causing poisoning in humans and animals, but case reports have not been found'.

My previous comment never mentioned any of these species.

I can understand how Mike is pissed with your comments. For many years Mike Unser has written about irises, is an respected International authority on Historic Irises, also the web master for The Historic Iris Preservation Society,and the Chairmen, Standing Committee for the HIPS Database.
He has been told by happyday's a person that freely admits in a recent comment to having a limited knowledge of Irises, that Mike is emotional, childish,a liar, and has no idea what he is talking about.
Visit http://www.hips-roots.com/visitors/v-hips-officials.html

I have contacted a few members of the Seed Forum of Garden Web (off message) about happydays and all replies appear to be most pleased that happyday's has found a new forum and in fact one reply suggested that happyday's synonym is an oxymoron which I tend to agree.

happydays Wake up and smell the coffee, your knowledge of Irises is extremely limited (Buying Schreiners Fragrant Series) and your only expertise is a very limited knowledge of search engines and trying to piss off everyone who disagrees with you.

Fact is that you are just an emotional troll who is economical with the truth.

I'm not pissed. I really find this whole discussion amusing. The very idea that we should take seriously the over-the-top crowing of a chicken little making blanket statements about all irises from a few postings on the internet, most copy and pasting the same old unsourced list of toxic garden plants as they completely ignore the experience and knowledge gleaned by the major organization devoted to irises and the hands on experience of tens of thousands of gardeners is silly.

It really comes down to who you want to believe. People who study and work with the plants themselves or random fear mongers. The info at holoweb is the only one that seems to have a reasonable assessment and they are only dealing with one variety and they even note there are no known cases of such poisonings - leading one to question the veracity of the information.

To the rest of the websites posted I'd ask the following info:

Where did the information originate from?
What studies were done to arrive at this information?
Who did the studies?
Which species were part study?
Were the studies replicated by others in the same field?
Are there documented cases being used for the information and if so where is that information?
Have any animal or human testings been done to verify the assertions?

No offense to Cat Fancy, but I hardly consider them a credible source on the almost 400 species of irises and their interactions with humans and livestock.

More questions:

Why has the American iris Society never published information about the toxicity of irises in their authoritative works on the genus?

Why has not a single one of the hundreds of iris growers who frequent this forum ever mentioned problems arising from iris toxicity - not even skin irritation? Why have I never seen mention of it on other iris forums?

Why has it been left out of the numerous books written on the various iris species? Books and articles about daffodils, foxgloves, colchicum lilies and many other known toxic plants almost always mention the potential for problems - why are irises the exception?

Why should we believe that a plant known to be unpalatable, difficult to chew, and whose main effect is to cause vomiting if someone did manage to get past the taste and texture issues a serious problem we need to worry about?

Is the information well sourced, detailed and from a trustworthy source or is it rumor, speculation and hearsay?

Happydays opinion of me gleaned from random blogs postings over the years is irrelevant. Anyone that thinks I could be lying about the number of irises in my garden because I didn't post a photo of all 700 individual blooms to my garden blog is not a person I would trust to accurately interpret any information or draw logical conclusions from it.

I'm done with this thread. Thanks for the opportunity to shoot down some myths and expose some illogical nonsense. It was fun. =)

Just have to comment on this. How in the world did a question about the pricing of irises end up in a squabble over what plants are toxic, anyway. I'm pretty sure no one would deliberately let animals eat their beautiful irises or other plants, toxic or not. I do know that my daughter-in-law was given historic iris rhizomes several years ago by an aunt. They were blooming beautifully in her yard. The cow and calf came through the fence and ate and destroyed almost all of her irises. Very few came back. She didn't mention anything about the cow and calf being sick. She was just mad that they ate her irises. So I don't know what the facts are as I don't plan to eat any and my dog and cats don't eat them. Sorry, but it is my understanding that this forum is to share and help each other, not to snipe and share insults. Just my opinion.
Charlotte

Right you are Charlotte. Thanks for adding your experience with irises being eaten. The deer step on my rhizomes sometimes and push them deep, making them struggle to resurface. Cow damage would be so much worse.

A veteran irisarian relates the following personal experiences with the subject:

"After 55 years of growing bearded irises, most of the time in excess of one acre, there are only two situations that have given me even the smallest problem.
(1) a couple of times a year, when cleaning dead leaves, a piece of dry leaf fiber may act like a splinter and pierce the skin, festering like a redwood splinter. Pops out easily and no further distress.
(2) a number of years ago, I used to pick pollen, stick the stamens (filament, not anther end!) between my lips to hold/carry them. If I did this for an extended period, I sometimes experienced a mild sore throat.

Anecdotal info: I was told that [a hybridizer] did not make iris crosses the last few years of his life (his wife did them instead) as he developed an allergy...presumably to the irises, but not verified by my source. // The story went round that several iris fanatics got together and decided to try bearded iris rhizomes, boiled like potatoes. How many people...who...how much was ingested...not known. Net result -- discomfort and diarrhea. // The pasture areas along the northern California coast tend to contain Iris douglasiana...and it becomes a pest, purportedly, as cattle avoid eating it, feasting on the competing grasses instead."

Real people. Real experience. Beats internet rumor every time.
-Mike