Goodness me - now you've put me on the spot. I have to say that I have been gardening for so long I don't really think about what I'm doing very minutely. I do everything from memory, never keep notes, never measure anything - all the things you're not supposed to do. Firstly, I have to tell you that limas don't grow in our climate so I have zero experience of them. In fact I have no idea even what they look like. However ....

I have grown runner beans (Phaseolus coccineus, French beans (Phaseolus vulgaris), Borlotti beans (??) and broad beans (favas - Vicia faba) and peas. This is what I do. Sorry if it's imprecise and not very helpful but the fact is most plants are pretty forgiving and will tolerate a lot more than people think. They don't measure things or keep notes either. None of these beans has a tap root although runners will later develop tubers.

Favas I normally sow outdoors but I do often start some indoors when I'm getting a bit bored in late January. Runners and French beans I will sow some time during April depending on the weather and how I'm feeling. Our climate gives us a long spring and the summer is not very hot so timing is less urgent for us.

I sow the beans one to a cell in 6 or 9 cell trays which I reuse every year and which I think originally had bedding plants in. The volume of soil is about the same as a yoghurt pot. I use bought seed sowing compost. (Which is the only time I ever buy any soil or compost products). The cells are placed in a window indoors for warmth and when the beans come up they get moved to a glass porch. I do not use any kind of lights or artificial heat. Just the light from the windows and the warmth of the house. I keep an eye on the weather and when I'm pretty sure there is a low risk of any more frost, usually around mid May, I harden off the plant over a few days and plant them out. By that time they generally have two to four true leaves. Runners, certainly, will still transplant when they are much bigger but they tend to get a bit tangled up. I don't even think about how I do it but I suppose I dig a hole the same size as the pot, put my hand flat over the pot with the stem going between my fingers, turn the pot upside down and the plant comes out into my hand with all the soil. Then I put it and the soil into the hole, firm it gently and water. Don't tease out the roots. Try to leave the soil in a pot shape. Essentially the plant is not supposed to notice it is no longer in its pot, although you can plant a little deeper without it hurting. The soil in the beds is just well cultivated garden soil, no special requirements. I never fertilise anything in my garden. I add compost all year round whenever I have it ready and I add manure once a year. Otherwise I just garden in the soil that's there.

On the whole, whether it's because of our climate or our native soils, I think that we worry a lot less about our gardens here. At least that's what I pick up from reading these forums. Basically most people just garden in the earth they have, don't buy in soil or amendments and don't agonise over the detail. So just go for it. I'm sure your beans will be happy.

Flora

Thanks.

Not sure I can leave the beans' roots and soil in a "pot shape" since I planted several seeds in each of three large pots that I want to transplant into the garden. But I'll be very careful when transplanting them in hopes that they won't notice they've been switched to a new environment!

Maybe Americans just like to fuss over their gardens more than Europeans do! Or maybe differently.

Flora, just because you are set in your ways does not mean there are no Brits fussing over orchids in hothouses or other Brits who obsess minutely over details of gardening. I'm sure they exist. Newbie gardeners often come to these forums to learn, that may be why it looks like too much detail, as they ask questions that we all learned the answers to some time ago.

Anney, you can save toilet paper rolls and paper towel rolls cut into thirds and pack them with potting soil, put a bean in, put in a warm place, then when there are some leaves and you are ready to plant, unroll the tube and plant the cylinder of soil. I did this once in case of the tap root needing more depth, and it worked ok.

It was great to hear from your part of the world again Flora. If I ever get rich I would like to go to the UK and do a lottie tour.

Anney, here in my part of the PNW, timing is a major issue. Beans need to go in about June 1 or some varieties will not mature. And soil is too cold on June 1 many years for planting dry seeds.

So each year about May 15 I plant a few dozen seeds in 3 inch peat pots full of potting mix. The peat pots are placed on plastic trays that have an inch of damp potting mix. Sand also works fine. As soon as the plants appear, the trays are moved into a solar greenhouse for more light. The roots push down through the bottoms of the peat pots into the potting soil below where they contiue to grow. Then about June 1, the pots are lifted out of the trays, each with its root mass hanging on the bottom of the pot, and they are planted in the garden. This gives me a full two week head start.

I learned this method from Zeedman. By the way, many other plants cannot push through the bottoms of peat pots so the bottoms must be pulled off at planting time. Also, if the rims of the pots are allowed to stick out above the soil line, they will wick water out of the rest of the pot and will cause roots to dry out.

All the rest of the bean seeds are pre-sprouted for planting out about June 1. So with dozens of peat pot plants and a couple dozen jars of sprouting seeds, this looks like a busy weekend. - Dick

drloyd

Thanks. So it sounds like one must provide for plenty of root depth when starting beans inside. There's probably more than one way to skin THAT cat! We need to talk some manufacturers into making planting cells that are 6 inches deep but only 2" wide. That would do it for lots of plants!

I thought about individual newspaper pots those sizes, but I think they'd sag and lean and tangle roots with neighbors worse than the shorter ones even if they were crowded next to each other.

Deep cell packs already exist including a brand that snaps open and shut like a book for easy rootball removal.

I use the tomato peat pellets for bean seeds and okra seeds. They expand to about 4-5 inches tall and about 2 inches wide. I never used them until this year because they were on clearance last fall for $1 (pack of 24). Worked great. Wal*Mart near me now has them on clearance but not all Wal*Mart have marked them down yet. One thing I do not like about peat pellets is the mold - I know it does not hurt anything but I do not like how it looks..........

I only start a few bean plants early most of them get planted in the garden.

DL

Happyday

I've seen those seed cells advertised and wanted to try them for other things, but they aren't cheap. Now I can't find them anymore online, though I could be searching with the wrong phrase.

DL

What kind of tray or container do you put the large peat pellets in when you use them? Those pellets come in lots of 18, don't they?

What flora described, is almost exactly what I did last year coping what my Grandad, Dad and Pops did, in fact it is exactly what they did, to the point flora described about the size of yogurt pots, and that is exactly what they all used for peas, beans etc, yogurt pots!, my Pop used his pension every week to by us a individual Ski Yogurt on a Thursday, so 5 pots, every week of the year, I had never had them til he came to live with us, but Dad, Pop had been posted in Europe in their Army Service, so where "new men 1970 style" :)
and I did the same thing last year in NE not realising that was not what to do, no probs! you just don't like on some plants disturb the roots, when pot bound, just leave them, I did a bit of each, seed sown and transplanted on Runner and Pole beans, didn't bother with peas, I am currently after transplanting 100% germination and transplantation success only did 6 of each, sown seeds same day as transplantation, from the same batch of seeds, no freezes, fluctuation in temps 80's down to early 50's in temp and I am planning something else.. 3/4 out of 9 in each case have come up, I suspect little furry creatures, as the ground has been disturbed :)
I think 2 year in to gardening, a lot of America has harsher conditions than the UK but I wonder if this isn't and old wives tale? that has due to American hard winters, stood fast, but now with greenhouses, sun room in my case (read conservatory Flora)
I have to say I am really loving the US and opportunity to grow Toms outside, I freaked last year when my toms where over 6 foot high! I had never seen toms that big outside the greenhouse.
give sowing peas and beans ago this way, may work may not but it's just a few seeds :-)

Well, I set out my 18 limas four days ago, spacing them far apart, and so far they're doing just fine. They aren't wilting or languishing and don't appear to be dying...

I wasn't able to avoid disturbing the roots, and even had to pull a couple of the plants apart, tearing the root systems. I really winced, but it couldn't be helped since I'd planted them all together in a large pot to germinate.

Anyway, I took a risk this time that worked out okay, but next time I think I'll plant them separately in styrofoam cups (my all-purpose standbys) so they can be set out with even less root disturbance.

Thanks, Flora and Dr. Loyd. If you hadn't answered, I would probably have been scared to death. They were the last of my pole lima seeds for this year.

Good to here they are thriving, anney. Here's to a fine harvest. I have just brought another few pots of runners outside to harden off before transplanting into the ground. I sow them in batches so I get plants of different ages which give a continuous harvest from June to the end of October most years.

aaaaarrrrrggggghhhh - I can't believe I wrote 'here'. Sorry!

If I have to replace beans that haven't come up for whatever reason, I often plant the number I need to fill the gaps in pots of No.4 sunshine mix. I keep the mix in the pots light and fluffy, at the first sign of the cotyledons breaking through I dump the pot out, gently separate the beans and plant. I haven't noticed any set back in fact they usually do quite well.

Annette

Aha! I think I've discovered what to grow the individual seedlings in when I want to keep them separate, but when the seedlings need a good-sized growing environment.

DL, I may not need to worry about getting the large sized Jiffys!