sounds like overwatering and or possible temp variance from optimal range.

whats the temp?whats your watering schedule?

I think you fried them.

utsharpie- thank you for your reply! I watered the cells daily. Just enough to wet the mix. Not enough to run off.
The temp down there under light is 70F same as the window seat with the lights on & 65 with lights off.

Shrubs N bulbs- so you believe I had the lights on too long, too close or not enough water? Not sure the meaning of "fried" My organic garden mag said to put the lights almost touching the cells the first week & them move them up to about 4" from the top. Is that too close?

Thanks again!

I don't think that you can burn the seedlings with flourescents. I've always tried to keep the lights as close to the plants as possible. I've had the leaves hit the bulbs plenty of times before I moved them up and never seen them burn or brown. My guess would be not enough light. Is there any natural light in the room? I've only used the lights to supplant the light from a window, not alone in a dark room.

its the basement's environment, probably full of bad bacteria and what not as well. i think its just a matter of the different environments and not the light because iveg my seedlings under 40 watts of flouros until they have a few nodes and a good root system, than i switch to metal halide. only problems i have had is when too much water gets around the plant and the humidity is very high as well

I don't think normal shop lights could burn the seedlings either - I've done all kinds of seeds and never had trouble. I always use a rest period. What type of seedlings are you growing?

Did the brown stems shrivel up and get thin near the surface of the soil and then the stems flopped over? If so, that's called "damping off" and comes from nonsterile soil. But if you used soilless mix, and the same kind, that probably isn't it.

Other possibility is lack of water. Plants under lights use an astonishing amount of water and if you watered both sets the same amount, perhaps the shoplight ones dried out too much?

If the soil is not too soggy or dry (testing with a finger and lifting the container to assess weight is the best way to tell), then the problem may be something in the environment that is toxic to the seedlings (what do you use for heating, for example?).

You really can't burn seedlings with cool white tubes that aren't touching them.

I agree with the previous two posters--either lack of water or dampening off from nonsterile soil. I've grown seedlings under florescent lighting for over a decade and never, ever burned a plant with a florescent, even when the leaves were left touching the bulbs for days.

Those seed cells are really difficult to keep evenly watered. Sometimes they look moist when they're bone dry. Also, water doesn't evenly distribute on its own in these little separated cubes. It's a chore to keep them evenly watered. The safest way is to touch each one that even might be dry with your finger to be sure. Try it for a while--you'll be astonished to find that some that appear to be dark and wet are actually dried out, and the plant will expire soon after if not watered.

Part of the difference between your windowsill plants and the ones under lights is that it's easier for you to see when the ones on the windowsill need water. The ones under the light tubes you may only give a cursory inspection and not notice that some of the cells are dry. I now pull every tray out and carefully inspect generally morning *AND* night. That is generally sufficient to ensure almost no plants are lost.

Thank you all again.
I have to agree that it must be something I have done wrong with watering.
I will try one more test batch before I go for the actual full blown planting of all my seeds. This time I will keep a note pad & document my watering procedures.
(oh- my first test batch was a few zinnia seeds & a few tomato seeds) My hopes are not to kill all my seeds! That would really put a damper on my new hobby.

Thank you all again!

dont grow in the basement, i promise thats the reason, contamination by the basement environm ent and the lack of the ability for the water to evaporate as well as the plants rate of transpiration.

grow in a closet upstairs

I grow in my basement just fine. The only exception would be if your basement is mold infested, then the spores multiplying at night would cause problems. But it's more likely to be a watering issue.

I've had *MUCH* better success starting seeds in simple 4x4" pots. Just put some sterile growing medium up to near the top. Then wet it all down with warm water. Then gently push 12-20 seeds (depending on size) into the top of the moist growing medium, then sprinkle some more medium on top and moisten it. Bag the whole pot and put it in a moderately warm location (70 degrees F works for most plants). Check it a couple times a day for germination. Once you see a seed start up, unbag it and put it under your lights. It's soooo much easier than trying to keep all those infernal cells evenly moist.

Once the seedlings get bigger (first true leaves) you'll have to carefully repot them all separately, but by this time they'll be less vulnerable to drying out or dampening off. Once again, sooooo much easier.

of course you can grow in your basement, i wasnt saying you cant but when dampening off is the issue its probably because your basement is covered in mold and bacteria

Thank you all again!
My house is only 6 months old, so I don't think basement mold is an issue (but who knows- that stuff grows fast & it rains all the time here !)

I really do believe I let them dry out down there. If they were dry when I checked each morning , that means they could have been bone dry for hours (maybe all night?)

I will check them twice a day as suggested.
Thank you all so very much for the great advice!

I just read this thread for the first time. After reading the initial post, I though "Uh-oh, you fried them". Then I read the other posts, only one who supported the "fried" theory.

Just as when you go out into the sun and get "burnt", when you never actually came close to catching fire, plants that dry out while sitting directly under lights can get "fried", as far as I'm concerned.

I have seen this happen, oh... way too damn many times when I didn't pay attention to the wetness.

Fried since the 70's
Zink

To keep seedlings from drying out under lights, I have had great success using capillary matting systems (I have the APS from Gardeners' Supply Company, but most big catalogs sell their own system or you could create your own for less money, probably).

Using these, you really only need to check the water level every few days. I have found that I get faster germination and better growth, with lots less work.

Here is a link that might be useful: APS seedstarting systems

Plants under lights dead, plants not under lights alive, I think there is a pattern here. Yes, its worth checking for damping off but it would be odd for that only to happen under the lights. So, if the lights did it, you can call it what you like, I call it fried. You can probably avoid the problem with a fan and sufficient water. I use lights 14-16 hours a day. Some people use them 24 hours, at least at first, but you have to take even more care to water well.

well of course the plants under the lights need to be watered more because they are receiving a few more hours of light than the ones in the window. if you are running them 18/6.

go to walmart, get one of those jiffy pellet starter domes combo. than fill the tray with water until all the cubes have absorbed the water. than pour more water until the cubes are saturated and the tray can hold about 2 inches of standing water. you can 3 days this way without worries in case you forget to check on em.

and it would be odd for the plants under the lights to only dampen off if they were grown in the same environment as the ones in the window.

Now *that's* an idea! I hadn't even considered them. I can see my seed-starting shelves becoming a long more advanced over the next year...

Thanks for the tip!

Standing water in a jiffy tray? That sounds like an invitation for mold to me.

lol, guess youve never had any experience. never had any mold for the 6 years ive been doing it.

jiffy pellets are very absorbant and the "standing water" gets soaked up by the first night or second but ensures a nice saturation so you can relax for a few days on watering.

I've been sowing in Jiffy pellets for 3 years. This is the first year I've switched to cell packs on top of capillary matting with much better results. I've grown lots of mold on jiffy pellets that weren't even in standing water. I'm sure it depends on the surrounding atmosphere but I definitely don't recommend it for the basement.

76710 - is that Texas? Probably better atmospheric conditions that cold, dank WNY.

that was my orginal comment, dont grow in the basement if you have mold problems as it is.

Re: Petunia seedling: I have been starting wave and avalanche petunias under lights for three years. This year they sprouted but have hardly grown at all. Everthing else is growing fine. I have fertilized the soil. Could any one tell me why their not growing

I read your message as I was again having trouble growing my own seedlings. It has happened for the last few years and though I did eventually get the seedlings in the garden and growing fine I had anemic plants for a time. I had trouble with peppers and vincas to name two. I have been gardening for years and had beutiful plants in my old nasty basement not my new dry one.

I got a water filter, new grow mix and abs trays from gardener's supply. Still no joy. I got new bulbs for my shop lights and voila. Beatuful green and sturdy plants. I wasted a lot of time and money and enjoyed my share of angst about it.

How are your bulbs?

Tom

I had a house water filter put in

Just thought I would update this post. It seems just getting my seedlings in the ground cured them off all their ills. I appreciate all the advice given here. My veggies & annuals are thriving.. (except my bell peppers are still slow to grow, non flowering)

Here is hubby weeding for me (yes- if you are 9 months pregnant you can talk your hubby into helping to pull weeds) & my son is the water boy

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Thanks again!
Rebecca