I'm discovering that the Suncircle light mover is no longer available. I want a light mover that can mount three lights, in a circular fashion, evenly spaced. The Sun Twist can do 3 lights but only with one in the center, which isn't the most efficient design.

Rails aren't quite right, either, I think a circular pattern is much better, plus then each plant can have equal exposure to HPS and MH.

Hmmm. Two days and nobody seems to comment on my idea!

Nice bright white walls reflect more light
than reflective silver mylar does. Thats just my opinion.
Hal

I don't think a mover will be necessary in that size of a room with 3 1000 watt lights. Unless the circular mover is over 8' in diameter it may be too intense in the center for alot of plants.

A 1000 watt MH will cover a 10'x 10' area. With 3 there will be overlap- You could put the HPS in the center and the MH in the corners and cover the entire room. I pay an extra $30 per month for elec to run my single 1000 watt- so be prepared for an jump in your elec bill.

Bright white walls do relflect more light. It has something to do with metalics redirecting light as beams and whites diffusing and redirecting so its more even.

Since I'm growing citrus I need a good 2000-2500 foot-candles plus for fruiting. At least that's been my experience.

Right now I have a single 1000W light. At a height of 6', I get about a 3 X 3 area of 4500 f-c about 2 feet under the light, and about 2200 - 4500 in a 6 X 6 area same distance away.

what is your startup cost for this? i agree i dont think a light mover is necessary. sounds like you got yourself a nice setup, if you get yourself a greenhouse you could crank out lots of food.

Well the GH is put off-the heating bills would be a grand a month!! The growroom might cost $100 a month.

I figure about $4000 startup cost including 2 X 4's, wiring, framing, lights, materials, thermostats, etc.

Basement growroom - $4000

Greenhouse - $14,000!!

Of course the results in terms of plant growth and health won't be comparable to what could be achieved in a greenhouse.

If you aren't determined to get citrus fruit, you could outfit a growing area with fluorescents for well under a tenth of that 4K cost.

I am determined to get citrus fruit-I didn't buy the trees for decoration!!

Any ideas on how to keep the room cool at night? As in cooler than the rest of the house? I figured proximity to a window with no internal heat vents would do the trick but I don't want it TOO cold.

For my small grow room (in a similar climate), I used a "twin" window fan. Each side can be set to pull air into the room or exhaust it out. Even on frigid days, I found that the right settings (for example, pulling air in on Low on one side and out on High on the other) kept the room a comfortable, cool temperature. I generally needed to switch the settings at night, when the lamps are no longer providing heat. The Honeywell HW628 (about $40) is excellent: the grilles are removable for easy cleaning, the speeds on the two sides are independently adjustable, and it's quiet and durable. Strongly recommended over Holmes, another manufacturer.

You'll still need a source of humidity; even with water under the plants in my grow trays (I used plastic grids to keep the plants above the water) and a large tray of water beneath the table, it got too dry.

3000 watts of heat, for a small room, is quite a lot. The window fan may do the trick; I think you'll find that during the day, you'll usually have both sides of the window fan blowing cold air into the room. (Exhaust ducts are another solution, but I'm not sure that with one window you can use them and still get fresh air from outside back into the room.)

Electricity here costs about 15 cents per kWH. For a 16-hour day, you'll be consuming about 50 kWH per day, which would cost about $225 per month here in electricity. Say you put your plants outside for 5 months of the year, and replace the MH bulbs every two years, the HPS bulb every four, the ballasts every six to eight, and repaint occasionally. Then your grow room will cost you about $1800 to $2000 per year, plus the value of the 170 square feet in your house....

I have a 12' x 20' room in the basement for growing orchids. The room is sealed off from the rest of the house and has its own fresh air intake and exhaust. Here are various comments and suggestions:

With 2 or 3 1000W lights have a dedicated electrical circuit installed. Purchased ballasts wired for 220V. While it's not anymore efficient, doubling the voltage halves the current which is a limiting factor in circuit loading. At 110V, each 1000W would need a delicated 15amp circuit. At 220V you can put all 3 on a 30amp circuit (like for an electric dryer).

Provide fresh outside air for CO2.

What humidity levels are needed for citrus? I need to run a humifier to keep it above 50% in the winter.

If you run the lights in the summer, you'll need to cool the room. I can't do it during the summer with just outside air.

since you live in ohio and have access to a window you wont have any problems with heat in the winter. when summer rolls around you might need to install a window ac unit. are your lights currently air cooled?

I'm thinking I may go with 4 1000W lights instead of 3 and making the room a bit larger, maybe 14 X 14.

I'm concerned about light distribution because the citrus plants are 2 and a half to 3 feet tall in 18" high pots meaning the highest limbs are nearly 5 feet high, and if I put the lights on a mover the space taken up between the mover itself and the light reflectors there won't be much actual room for the plants, and the lights being so close the light won't actually "spread" through the room well. The upper branches would get 5500 foot candles while the rest of the plants got almost nothing. The idea behind the mover was basically to "blend" the HPS and MH together.

What if I were to simply mount 2 HPS and 2 MH equidistant directly on the ceiling, with no light mover? Then the base of the reflector will be about 6 and a half feet above the floor giving me better distribution, and as high up as they'll be, wouldn't the red HPS light and blue MH light blend pretty well?

As far as heating/cooling, I won't use the room in summer-the plants will be outdoors. Aside from a few warm early spring days, most days the room is in use the outside temperature will be quite cold.

I'd like to get about 68-75 degrees during the day, upper 40s to mid 50s at night. In other words simulate winter temps in the CA citrus groves. I will keep soil heating cables on the roots to keep them around 70. Here's my thought:

If the room is 14 X 14 X 7.5, that's 1470 cubic feet. If I get a ventilation fan in the small window that's low capacity, maybe 200 CFM, along with a louvered vent like you'd have on a greenhouse on this outside window, hooked to a thermostat, would I be able to keep the room cool without getting TOO cold? I wouldn't want a high-capacity fan because on a cold winter day, the room would drop from 84 degrees to 21 degrees in one minute!! I figure small capacity plus a circulation fan inside the room would do the trick.

I could also have another fan and vent going to "outside" the room into the heated basement to bring in warmer air if it gets too cold-the thermostat in the house is about 70 degrees typically, so at night, when the lights are off, if the temperature got too cool, this other fan could kick on and bring in warm room air from the rest of the basement.

Finally, I'll have a small humidifier to keep RH around 40% which is fine for citrus and the other stuff I'd be growing in there. I realize the ventilation would waste some humidity, but what else can I do?

Would this work?

I think you really need the light mover to blend the light. How high is the ceiling? Mine is just under 8' and I can get the boom of the reflector above 6'

The other purpose of a light mover is to allow the light to be closer to the plant without burning it. With a circular mover you will have light penetrating the lower branches from different angles.

Think above how the trees will be arranged in the room. You don't need to light the entire room to the intensity level needed by the trees. If you put them around the perimter of the room, I think the circular mover will do a good job of providing the needed light intensity.

your electric bill is going to be near $250 a month with 4000 watts. and i dont know where you got it would cost $1000 a month to heat a greenhouse..thats way way way off too.

Well, considering that this winter I expect costs of about $300-$400/mo just to heat my 1165 square foot 1948 cape cod house, which is 100 times better insulated than a 20 X 12 polycarb greenhouse...it would probably be even more than $1000!

Depends how hot you want your greenhouse ;)

6mm twinwall polycarbonate glazing allows through about the same heat as basic glass double glazing, two to three times as much as quality double glazing, or about ten times as much as a good house wall.

If I did have a GH I'd probably want winter temps in the mid to upper 60s F, with nights about 45 - 50 degrees, perhaps a TAD colder.

since its greenhouses are all "glass" meaning it allows sun penetration at every angle but the floor it heats up very easily...you know, the greenhouse house effect. and its not going to be even close to 1000, but you can guarantee your 4000 watts will be over $250 a month

I've read posts on the greenhouse forum that suggest I'm not far off at all. Keep in mind natural gas costs this winter are about 40% higher than last year.

We only get sunny days about once per week in winter. So, most days the heater will run most of the day and night. Plus-how long do you think that solar heat will hold in after dark?? I'm sure that it will help SOME.

Plus, in this part of Ohio, with our lake-effect clouds, I'd probably need supplemental HID lights IN THE GREENHOUSE as well-we can literally go 2 weeks without a lick of sunshine in winter-which inside a greenhouse works out to about 300 foot-candles of light on those cloudy days.

4000 watts for $250 a month?! I, for one, think you should just buy your citrus at the grocery store like everyone else :P

-DH

That's not the point!! ;-)

I know. I'm not exactly known for taking the easy way either.

http://img103.exs.cx/gal.php?g=img03068yv.jpg

-DH

Is that a dual-lamp reflector, deadhamster? With both MH and HPS?

The light looks very white for having HPS in it. What kind of snake is that?

It was originally a single lamp, I added an incandescent socket for a heat/night lamp. The other is a 250 watt MH, 5200k and 65 CRI. It's a nice looking lamp. The larger snake is a brazilian rainbow boa, the smaller is an amazon tree boa.

-DH

hm4e, I'd experiment first with the sort of window fan I described. I set up a grow room like this for several seasons runningÂsimilar to yours, but only 9Ã10 feet, and with one 1000w Agro Sun MH light instead of three. I also think you'll get enough reflected light from white walls not to need a light mover. Having air come in one side and out the other adds a safety factor; the room won't cool down too quickly, and the plants won't be harmed by a few hours of cool ambient air provided they don't get freezing drafts (so keep them 4 feet or more from the window) and the temperature inside itself doesn't go below freezing. The room will absorb some heat from the house, even with the door closed; that buffers the effect of cold outside air. You can also buy relatively inexpensive remote alarms that will let you know if the temperature goes below a predefined threshold, say 40 or 45 degrees. I just got into a routine of changing the fan from High in, Low out (daytime) to Low in, High out (night).

If you have room for a greenhouse, here's another idea to consider: build a structure with a lower ceiling that's tall enough to hold your plants (more like a large cold frame); use thicker, better-insulating polycarbonate; keep your plants fairly cool and don't worry about supplementing winter sunlightÂthe plants don't expect a lot of light in winter. If you're handy, build something like this on a small scale, experiment with overwintering a few plants in it, and see how it does.

To extend that last idea: I built an outdoor structure like this for a few thousand dollars; the base consisted of a heating cable sandwiched inside gravel, which retained and distributed heat. Tiered shelves rested on the base to display the plants during summer. For winter, the shelves could be removed, and greenhouse glazing screwed into the base. Outdoor grow lights were mounted to the roof, but I don't think you'll need those if you have a sunny site.

Here is a link that might be useful: Outdoor heated cold frame / light stand

That's an interesting idea (the large cold frame idea), and I've thought of trying something like that. I struggle with existing on natural winter light though-we're lucky to see the sun once a week in winter. We're talking natural light under 500 footcandles outdoors! If all I wanted was survival I'd be fine, but I'm trying to RIPEN fruiting citrus! Which-indoors-I've only been able to do by keeping HID light levels over 3000 foot-candles at the top of the plants and maybe 1500 in the lower leaves.

The structure I built did have built-in outdoor grow lights (HID floodlights), because it was in a shady courtyard. But I'd think your plants might be happier with a cool, dim winter; most plants (including citrus?) need a winter rest, during which their light requirements are diminished.

My basement (without heat vents) has stayed a consistent 55F to 56f SO FAR. I'll be interested on how much low it goes this winter (i'm not heating down there). I have 4 windows, with 2 facing south, two west. I still have to add the storm windows (whatever there called), which is basically another glass window that installs on the outside.

If OH is like WI, then yes, we get VERY little sunshine this time of the year. I think its because Warm and COld are fighting it out still. Once the big COLD highs from Canada push through, then the skies will turn clear and the temps will plummet.

I've got a bunch of Citrus, but mine will never fruit :( (grown from seed).

Our winters stay cloudy all through winter-we're a bit more south and usually in the storm tracks all winter. Late Feb we start getting more sunshine.

The rotating lamp set-up is available still. The original design did prove to be undependable. The newer designs I've seen look very nice indeed. Try doing a search on the web or the place I saw them was here in Portland. They are expensive but the mix of mh and hps sodium is awesome. Your idea for the room and location sounds very good to me! You should be able to grow just about anything in the room you described....

good luck and keep us posted.

I agree with deadhamster, unless your going to smoke your "CITRUS", you would be better off going to the grocery store.