In my "opinion" I think a vampire killed them !!~ David

Without good photos and detailed description plants and site need to be examined in person before anyone can make useful suggestions. If you think it was a pathogenic disease try local Extension office, maybe they can tell you what is there after testing samples of your plants.

I'm not asking for suggestions, thank you.
I'm asking if anyone has had this experience. Suggestions are usually coupled with a diagnosis, which is impossible online, despite people's enthusiasm to jump in and be an expert. I appreciate the thought, though.

Today, I decided I have nothing to lose. I hacked them back to where the stem was bendy, or just hacked off the black on one and the dry on another. Hopefully I got the vampire bite poison out of them.

Ah well.
At least it's not the canker thing that's attacking the branching points on my larger, red maples.

Got some issues out here...

Christine

Well, Christine, I dug up my plant that declined rapidly in less than a week, & brought it in for diagnosis. I got mixed opinions, but everyone agreed that it was probably a goner. I pruned off all the wilted leaves & black tips, repotted in a fast draining mix, moved it to a pot, & put it in the shade, & will probably wait a few months to see if it's REALLY dead. My boss said a similar thing happened to one of her JMs, a Wilson's Pink Dwarf, very fast, wilting, blackening of stem...We also had a few trees out of about 100 out in the field succumb suddenly. I just hope my other trees stay healthy...

I'm curious as to how long these have been in the ground, the size of the trees, and whether or not they started to bud out before the big freeze.

Sorry Matt this info does not seem to be relevant I think we should give this thread a rest!!!...as I said Blood sucking Vampires is as good as reason as any... David

I wholeheartedly consider the presentation of "Crapping Out" to be due to, at least in primary regard, to a quick acting form of verticillium. As I have said here before and described at length, in a number of forum situations, it hits hard and fast by causing a near entire vascular collapse in the plant. It is not soilborne for most end-buyer or end-grower concerns. It is carried and harbored in rootstocks and scion wood.

Frequently is strikes in the spring or early summer during leaf out or when cooler temperatures return after a spring warm spell. Leaves petioles and shoots almost immetiately wilt and subsequently turn black, or very dark brown that appears black for all intents and purposes. While the tree many seem alive for a few days or that it can recover, the limp shoots never regain turgidity and the entire plant usually turns black and dies. For all intents and purposes, it is usually dead at the time it wilts. Rarely is limited to a particular area or region of the tree, but presents throughout the tree.

So, yes I had it happen--no I won't say how many times--it always happens the same way with the same presentation and if people won't agree on the specific pathogen then we can simply stick with crapping out. It will destroy liners in an instant and make short work of gallons in a couple of days. Plants up to 7-10 years of age are frequently killed off, but it will decrease with age as it is disease of younger plants. IF they live for 10 years then they are mostly likely clean of that disease.

I won't put it all on the grower or producer of the maples as there is little regard for this problem in the community. But there is not doubt that it is a dirty rootstock and/or scion, but I won't give my opinion about who or what should be done about it. Once again, byer beware. As long as we as a community continue to view maples as disposable they will continue to be sold to us in that manner.

My last statement on trending with this disease is that it hits maples right away after we get them or frequently in the 2nd year. I don't know that I have ever been able to save a maple from this form of verticillium, but I may have saved one this year (lost 3 others). If you see it enough you will see it coming, and maybe, in luckiest of years, you will save one--but don't count on it.

I now resign myslef to never typing this response again :-) So when it rolls down to page 35 it will be gone forever. Of course what good is it all when there is nothing you can do about your maples dying before your eyes? Just saddening really.

I see this type of failure often and it seems to be particularly prevalent this season. I tend to agree with Mike that it is a fast acting form of VW, but I am not going to assign the blame entirely to growers as I've seen it occur just as frequently on older, established maples as it has on younger, more recently planted stock. While contaminated root stock is definitely a consideration in some cases, VW is a very opportunistic pathogen and responds aggressively when a sufficient amount of stress triggers it, often appearing soon after the end of dormancy in response to the previous season's drought or heat or to adverse winter weather.

IME, few trees - other than some very well established and otherwise healthy ones - outgrow the problem and eventual if not immediate death is the result.

Mike and gardengal, thank you for stating your experiences.
That's what I was looking for.

This has happened to several of my grafted saplings that are roughly 2-3 years old. And yes, it's just after leaf-out. Matt, they are potted with the pots buried in the ground. As it's spring, I had just repotted several whose roots needed it after a nice, healthy winter.

I'm distressed to hear of this VW thing, since I've not read about it. In my repotting efforts, I'm not concerned I'm spreading it.

I have 132 (-3 now) JM grafted saplings and am concerned that I should buy fresh, sterilized soil and repot them all. Am I overreacting? Is there something to prevent this or are we just ummmm... stuck with them dying?

Skeeter's Broom
Tomaya Nishiki
Katsura
Wilson's Pink
Dissectum Nigrum
Emperor One
Tana
are the trees I've lost in the last 2-3 years.
Of course, they're the ones I tend to really like.

D@mned vampire diseases.
C.

This is why this is totally worthless ..Michael stated:

"Leaves petioles and shoots almost immetiately wilt and subsequently turn black, or very dark brown that appears black for all intents and purposes. While the tree many seem alive for a few days or that it can recover, the limp shoots never regain turgidity and the entire plant usually turns black and dies. For all intents and purposes, it is usually dead at the time it wilts. Rarely is limited to a particular area or region of the tree, but presents throughout the tree."
You stated none of this in your piddly descriptive non descriptive post... you have NO IDEA whether you have VW so what is the point...you are asking for these good folks to post possibly WRONG diagnosis ...could it be VW yes but you have not and will not provide anyone with enough info to say with any certainty..I have not and do not see the point what the heck do you want sympathy ...well I am sorry your stuff died.... but this is a complete waist of time and this is my last post on this thread ...just felt I had to say how stupid this excursion into guessing games was for all those that volunteer their time to help folks...maybe others don't mind waisting there time but when others really want definitive answers some of these folks may be burnt out from posting worthless stuff. ...just needed to get that off my chest!!! david

Who peed in your Wheaties, Sweetie Pie?

Sympathy, no.

I didn't post anything regarding my maples because I'm tired of attitudes that get snotty about not having pictures, not enough details, immediate "diagnosis" of things being mower gashes, etc.

The description of VW gave me a point to begin. It was a unbiased description of something that happened to someone else without their experience being colored by my probably-inept description of what's going on with my maples.

You're welcome not to waste your time any time you don't feel like wasting it.

It gives me a place to start.
I hope your day is better now that you've gotten that off your chest. Anything to make you feel better.

Christine

My Green Mist, that had the same symptoms, that I took in to work for more opinions (that I didn't really want to hear, since everyone said it would die)is dead. The black band, right around the graft, has spread to about 4".

I'm trying to remain positive, I've gotten alot of new grafts this spring, I'm busy potting them up. Of my older trees,(& these have only been here a year or so, while some of them are 4 yr. old plants), the ones that are the loveliest are Germaine's Gyration (overwintered in a ceramic pot), Kinran (in a nursery pot), & Tiger Rose (well, she's a ringer, just got her this spring).

The demise of the Green Mist is sad, but I can't think of anything I could have done to prevent it, so I won't stress about it. All of the other plants, which went through very odd weather (late freezes) this spring look fine, although the Aconitifolium has a few wilted leaves still (it doesn't get as much water as the rest). I hope everyone else is enjoying spring, with their JMs, & having a good time out in the garden...