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Who's started seeds...

20 years ago

and what have you got going?

To help get the ball rolling, here are excerpts from a conversation on the MG list:

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How does ambient temperature affect the growth of plants started from seed?

Assuming that light, moisture, fertilizer, and soil/starting mix are otherwise adequate, how much is growth of seedlings affected by air temperature? Should I start my tomatoes and other plants earlier than is recommended on the seed packages and university literature (one week, two weeks, three, ???) if I grow them in a cool 65 degree basement rather than at 75 or 85 degrees?

I use a seed heating mat/germination mat to keep the soil mix warm while the seeds are actually germinating, but do not have enough warming mats for the entire propagating period for all the seedlings I try to start. I used a small electric space heater last season to add extra heat to an enclosed area of the basement, but the utility bill ended up competing with the national debt.

Will plants grown at lower temperatures be set back once they are set out in the garden? Will my tomatoes wake up and begin ripening in mid-October?

I guess what I am looking for is personal experiences and ideas.

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I suspect the ambient temps slow the growth of seedlings a bit. After all, greenhouse growers drop the temps to keep plants "on hold". In fact, John Erwin, a floriculture prof, has done a lot of research on using cooler temps in lieu of growth regulators in bedding crops. He calls it "DIF" so you might check that out. He suggested dropping greenhouse temps a certain amount, at night, IIRC.

Having said that, like you I've started more seedlings in my chilly basement than I've grow mats for. I started the seeds on the mat then when they were up, maybe had their first set of true leaves, I moved them onto a shop table under lights. My basement isn't a toasty 65. It's usually 55 or so. (I have a space heater in my basement office to keep my fingers and other relevant parts from freezing.)

When I've taken a spring trip, I've prevailed upon a colleague to keep an eye on my babies and moved them into the Hort. greenhouse while I was gone. (I limited myself to one plug tray.) They have grown significantly larger by the time I returned. So, yes, more light and 70 degree F temps help bunches when speeding seedlings to maturity.

How much you should extend lead time??? Hmmm. That depends on how big you want your transplants by planting out date. I've tended to start seedling a bit earlier than recommended, by maybe a couple of weeks. (Yeah, there was the quarter I was taking a bonehead Algebra refresher and was so crazed I started seeds in Feb., including tomatoes. I transplanted those puppies a couple of times, the last into "beer cups" when they were close to a foot tall. Blame it on Algebra. It never happened again. ;-)

I don't think the plants are set back if grown cool. I wonder if they'd be set back more if grown warm, then cooled down. (????) In spring you can have cool evenings. I've harvested tomatoes pretty much the same time everyone else has.

I suspect cool seed starting medium is a greater limiting factor. Way back when I was still doing accounting for a living, I started some alpine strawberries from seed. The first batch were planted and left at ambient basement temps. They took *forever* to come up. I started a second batch and left the tray in the kitchen, which was much warmer. They were up in days.

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I wouldn't call 65 degrees a "lower temperature". Your tomato seedlings will do just fine at that temp. You say that all the other factors are adequate, but your tomato seedlings would disagree with you. Artificial light is just not the same as good old sunlight, artificially fertilized soil mix is not the same as good organic garden soil and moisture in the medium is not as even as it is out in the garden, either. And, air humidity and movement outside is better for your tomatoes than the stagnant dry air indoors, too. The more air is heated by your furnace, the drier it gets, so 85 degrees indoors is not like 85 degrees outside during our humid Minnesota summers!

No, I wouldn't start tomatoes earlier than recommended. They'll suffer more from having to be inside, under less than adequate conditions, for a longer period of time.

Regardless of what temperature they were accustomed to in your house, it will take them awhile to get established in the garden. Be very careful to harden them off properly before putting them in the ground.

When tomatoes begin bearing has more to do with weather conditions through the summer (which, of course, you have no control over) than how early you start them indoors, although the variety you choose makes a difference, as well.

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My basement growing situation sounds similar to yours. Keeping the lights 2-3" above the plants produces nice dark green plants that take right off when planted outside. I usually start them during the first couple of weeks of April. I have started some later and they seem to catch up pretty fast once transplanted to the garden.

So if you are just growing transplants, I would say don't worry about trying to supply the extra heat. If you are wanting larger plants then you should start them earlier.

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I think it is most important to have it warmer in the room, around 75F or so, to get the seeds to germinate. Then, once the germinate, a little cooler is best so the seedlings don't get real tall and leggy. Ideal around 65F. Start your tomatoes and peppers about 8 weeks prior to the usual last frost in your area. Since tomatoes and peppers like heat, plan on putting them in the garden around June 1st. So you really don't have to start your seeds until the end of March or Beginning of April. Also doesn't hurt to have a fan in the room on low to simulate a light breeze to help the seedlings be a little stronger. I don't have any heat mats, just a space heater in my furnace room to have the warm temps initially and I have a pretty good germination rate. Growing the seedlings at a lower temp will not hurt the plants after they are set out. Just make sure you have a hardening-off period to get the plants used to the sunlight and the wind and you should do just fine.

Comments (7)

  • 20 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I started my first flat of hostas last weekend. Everything else will follow. Don't know how interesting anyone but me will find this next :-) but here's my planting schedule from last year (my first year to grow my own seedlings) along with notes on where the seeds came from, germination, when I potted them up in bigger pots, when I moved them to the cold frame, and so on. Skip over it if it's too boring :-) To me, of course, it's tremendously interesting!

    January
    1/3 Ginko Craig Hosta (From my garden) - Germination 25 days - approx 85%
    1/3 Hollyhocks (From my garden) - Germination approx 21 days - Only 3 survived
    1/30 Love Pat Hosta (GW - MN Winter Blues Seed Swap) - Germ approx10 days - approx 85 - 90%

    February
    2/26 Candy Lily (GW - MN Winter Blues Seed Swap) - Germ first 30 days - then ranging 37 - 55/60 days. Germ 30 % indoors.

    March
    3/7 Hollyhocks (GW - Roland in Nashville ) - Germination 4-5 days - Potted 3/28
    3/7 Blue Morning Glory (GW - Roland in Nashville ) - Germination 4 - ? days
    3/12 Clematis Mrs Rob Brydon (GW - MN Winter Blues Seed Swap) -
    3/12 Sedum Frosty Morn (GW - MN Winter Blues Seed Swap) -
    3/12 Lettuce - Burpee Bib (purchased) - Germination 3-4 days - Potted ? - moved to garden 4/02 and 4/23
    3/12 Tomato - Burpee Super Beefsteak (purchased) - Germination 5 days - Potted 3/26
    3/12 Tomato - Burpee Bucks County Hybrid (purchased) - Germination 6 days - Potted 3/28
    3/12 Pepper - Burpee California Wonder (purchased) - Germination 7-8 days - Potted 3/29
    3/12 Virginia Bluebells (GW - Roland in Nashville) - Germination 6 days
    3/17 Coleus - Burpee Rainbow Mix (purchased) - Germination 4 days - Potted 4/12 & 4/13
    3/17 Basil - Purple - Ferry Morse(purchased) - Germination 3 days - Potted 4/13
    3/17 Hosta - Dragon Lady - Ebay - Germination 7 days
    3/21 Onion - Evergreen White Bunching - Burpee (purchased) - Germination 3 days - Moved to garden 4/09 and 4/23
    3/21 Cabbage - Mammoth Red Rock - Heirloom Seeds (purchased) - Germination 2 days

    April
    4/13 Tomato - Brandywine (Baker Creek Heirloom Seed) - Germination 4 days
    4/13 Tomato - Pantano Romanesco (Baker Creek Heirloom Seed) - Germination 4 days
    4/13 Tomato - Green Zebra (Baker Creek Heirloom Seed) - Germination 4 days
    4/18 Swamp Milkweed - Cinderella
    4/18 Swamp Milkweed - Ice Ballet
    4/18 Pink Milkweed - Var unknown
    4/18 Milkweed - Var unknown
    4/23 Four O'Clock - Tea Time Rose (Select Seeds)
    4/23 Pepper - Topepo (Baker Creek Heirloom Seed)
    4/23 Rutabaga - American Purple Tom (Baker Creek Heirloom Seed)
    4/23 Columbine - Var unknown Purple and white (MN Winter Blues Seed Swap)
    4/23 Foxglove - Pam's Choice (Select Seeds)
    4/23 Foxglove - White (not sure if this is var or just color) (Select Seeds)

    4/2-4/3 Planted first lettuce, radish, and onion sets in garden
    4/8-4/9 Began moving many seedlings to cold frame and outdoor mini-greenhouse
    4/23-4/24 put cabbage seedlings in garden - only 9-10 left in cold frame
    4/24 Potted 38 tomatoes up from 10 oz cups to 20 oz cups.
    4/24 Planted Mammoth Melting Sugar Snow Peas (Baker Creek Heirloom) in garden
    4/30 Potted about 20 Brandywine tomatoes into 10 oz cups

    I did start many things earlier then recommended, and they did great, so either I handled them right or got lucky... maybe some of each. The only thing that did not do well, was the Rutabaga. On the other hand, I've never grown Rutabaga at all before so maybe I did something wrong with that in the garden. It just didn't make big enough Rutabagas to bother with.

    I also did a lot of winter sowing last year... but that's a different list and I won't subject anyone to that :-)

    My nursery room (also known as my home office/storage room) usually stays about 70 degrees. I kept the florescent shop lights on the seedlings 24/7 (not recommended for everything I guess, but great for the hostas). I kept a fan circulating in the room also 24/7. My first year experience was great and I can hardly wait to repeat it this year!

  • 20 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I have started my winter sowing, 48 gallon containers so far. I need to get some more soil and then I can get some more started. Well I had promised DH no new garden beds this year, but as he was helping with the winter sowing he said he wouldn't hold me to the promise, YES!!! Bringing him alone to the seed trade was a good idea.

    Pauline

  • 20 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Pauline, you have really been busy since the swap! And congrats on the good effects of bringing your DH along :-) Hopefully, I will soon follow your good example and get a batch of WS started.

    In the meantime, I have spent the afternoon doing some additional organizing of my seeds and supplies, and yes, even a little planting! I now have the following planted indoors:

    Hosta - many varieties, Red Swallowwort, Impatiens, and some of the palm tree seeds (brought home from a visit to my nephew in Arizona).

  • 20 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Hi, Very Good Subject,,

    I am not as organized with my notes as you guys but last year I put plastic around my shelves ( keep the bills down )a themometer, heater, If I remember right, I started them upstairs 70-75 degrees untill they germinated good( Maybe 1/4 inch )then move them downstairs maybe 65 degrees.. the ones in the basement I had lights on 12 hours or so Have a timer, that helps, and a fan, the ones upstairs I just had on the south window. Most of them did great.
    I keep telling my self I am going to take better notes but it hasn't
    happened yet.

  • 20 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I haven't quite gotten on the ball yet, but here's what I was going to try:

    Ginkgo--I saw a picture of an espaliered (spelling?) Ginkgo so I was going to try it along a fence.

    Kentucky coffee tree--I saw some nice one's on U of M campus. Thought it would make a nice replacement for the Elms I lost.

    Umbrella Magnolia (M. tripetala)--I saw them at the arboretum and loved the large leaves. Don't know if I have space for it, but we'll see.

    I got all the seed from the St. Paul campus off the U. A lot of nice specimens of less commonly planted trees.

  • 20 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I've got seeds in the basement waiting for spring starting, and they will be waiting a bit longer before I get to them. I'm hoping to get a sorted list of starting dates put together this week but I don't expect the card tables to go up in the south-facing home office until next month at the earliest. I've also got to finish my from-the-window assessment of what plants need to be moved. I'm hoping to do as much of that as possible in early spring.

    But thinking of starting seeds is somehow a little more exciting, don't you agree?

  • 20 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Joyce, very glad to see you had success germinating Virginia Bluebells(Mertensia virginiana). So many of those woodland flower seeds don't do well stored. I did receive some Mertensia simplicissima seed and was wondering if it would be even worth planting. Now I know! Thanks.

    Gingkonut, don't forget to scarify your kentucky coffee tree seeds.

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