Thanks Mr Rick!
Please keep the info coming! I enjoy learning and re-learning gardening lessons!
So an "x" between 2 names usually means a cross between 2 known varieties? Like Digitalis lutea X D. dubia may mean that someone took the time to pollinate them together- and protected them from any other pollenators? Is there a designation for which is the mamma or the pappa when you write that out? Like "ladies" first?
Julie

That is exactly right. Ladies first is a good way to remember it. However, you have to take into consideration where that info is coming from. The really good nurseries do probably take care to list the parents properly. But I wouldn't expect the correct male/female information from, Wayside, for instance.

As you have correctly noted, "ex" has nothing to do with "x". In fact, to be really exact about the nomenclature, the "x" is actually a multiplication sign and not the letter. But it is permissive to use the letter when there is no multiplication sign option. The letter is always lower case though.

Thanks Rick. That is very handy info to have, even if you can't count on everyone using it correctly in their labeling. I wouldn't have had any idea about the 'ex' although I was familiar with X :-)

A good reminder, Rick.

I also might add (if you don't mind) that the same holds true for natural reseeding of cultivars in our gardens. For example, if Heliopsis helianthoides 'Venus' reseeds in the garden, it is misleading to dig those seedlings/plants and give them away or trade them as a the named variety Heliopsis 'Venus'.

Sometime the reseeding perennial cultivars can even fool the gardener. An example in my case is...years ago I bought Veronica 'Darwin's Blue'. A great cultivar but it is a vigorous reseeder. At this point in time, I suspect my original plant is gone and what I have is Veronica ex 'Darwin's Blue'. I can no longer claim to have the real cultivar.
Jan

Oops! forgot to ask a question in my previous post?

Rick (or anyone) - what is your take on named varieties of naturally occurring variations coming true from seed? It seems like a trend for enterprising sorts to give a cultivar name to almost any naturally occurring variation within a species.

This is probably not a good example since it is a very recent naturally occurring 'find'......but what do you think the chances are of something like Campanula taskesimana 'Beautiful Trust' coming true from seed?

Am I going to have to buy it to find out? I hope so!
Jan

A very good point, Jan. One of those that should "follow without further explanation". But unless you apply the concept, rather than just learn it, the point would be easily lost.

I guess the simple answer to your question is whether said characteristics are dominant or not. But really, few things as as simple as the wrinkled pea/smooth pea crosses we learned oh so long ago.

Think of the tight, rigid, dark blue big bluestem seed that I gave you. It seems to come pretty true from seed. But not as close as Lorraine Sunshine, for instance. I have always assumed that "cultivars" of balloon flower are really strains, since there is no practical way of asexual propagating Platycodon. They always seem to come true.

So I think it all depends of the particular genetics of particular species or genera. For some, the simple dominance theory will hold, but for far more, the complexity of genetic interaction is not well understood (if at all).

As for Beautiful Trust, since variation in Campanula is so wide, I suspect the trait might be transferable in part; and I also suspect more genetic interaction than, say, in Platycodon(where the genes seem to be more "simplified").

Abut as clear as mud now? I didn't realize I was such a good political writer. LOL

Rick

Ah- Rick- I could still follow that- you'll need more practice at mumbo jumbo- ah - the aformentioned writing arena- to rank in the qualifications for such genres as that.....

On another note- just how is it that we can buy seeds of (most) these plants? I don't see an "x" on any purchased packets.......

We can purchase seeds of Echinacea "Kim's Mop Head" but not of "Meadow Bright"- What gives? The same as above? Unstable sports asexually reproduced- tissue culture to root cutting to divisions- make these available to the masses- while other crosses cause more standard/stable plants that come "true" from seed?

Your not gonna tell me the seed companies fertilize and bag every flower head they collect seed from- are you? And while your at it- just how do they do what they do when they do what they do? Ah- seed companys that process seed for sale that is.......

Ever full of questions
Julie

Julie- Commercial seed producers do control pollination! This is done in many ways. Sometime it is as simple as isolating varieties and planting them at least a mile from each other, which is farther than a steroid-free bee flies. In some cases as complicated as hand pollination. Explains why something like Wave petunia seed is so pricey?

Thanks for the comments/explanation, Rick.
Jan

Thank you too Jan for the cultivation of knowledge you have shared here. If I could learn to keep my mouth shut- or still my fingers- I could listen/read all day to what all those more knowledgeable than I have to say, instead of asking why all the time.....
I have understood about distance planting- but boy- that is alot of land when you consider how many seed packets there are from just one company at just one store. I have seen and tried pollinating and bagging- that is a chore. That makes the cost of what we pay for seeds and plants unbelievably inexpensive at almost any cost!
I do appreciate gleeming what I can from the conversations here at GW- thanks for putting up with the querries-
Julie

Julie, sometimes you just crack me up. And maybe I'll work harder on my mumbo jumbo skills(!)

Of course, hybrid seed in the vegetable world abound. And I'm sure you've heard of tasseling corn(or is it detasseling): where a field of corn is tasseled to remove that source of pollen. That way the corn is pollenated from nearby untasseled fields of a different variety. The resultant seed in field #1 is hybrid seed of known parentage. In a case like this, if the botanical mame was on the package at all, Zea mays 'X' x Zea mays 'Y' would be most informative. However, simply Zea mays would be correct, as no crossing between two different species was involved, only crossing within the same species.

If Echinacea 'Kim's Mop Head' seed(or the like) are purchasable, than I would expect that wanted traits come true through sexual generation(i.e. seeds) of know parentage. This is not to say each seedling is exactly the same plant. When ever genes are mixed, there are infinite possibilities. But in a case like this, the genes that govern the outward appearance we see as Kim's Mop Head are stable in their outcome.

Since Meadow Bright seed is not available, I would expect that sexual generation does not produce like reproductions. Therefore, to increase plant numbers, asexual means are the only option.

So yes, Julie, you've got it right. It just all depends on the individual plant.

Rick

P.S. Did I do what you said I should do when you asked I should do it?
(I'm trying to learn from the master.)

All I can say to that is....

MMmmm HMmmmmm.............

Please note that the tone does rise in the middle of that "phrase".....