Trunk: (top of tree)

Sorry, the variety is called "Eric's weeping"

Allan

I'm not familiar with Acer palmatum 'Eric's Weeping'. It reminds me of Acer palmatum 'Ryusen'.

Patrick

It could be a newer variety? People find new mutations and seedlings all the time. Home Depot sells all kinds of mislabeled stuff and stock from mass growers who change names all the time to avoid royalties of patented plants. Is the growers name on the plant tag or sticker on the pot? Sometimes you can trace it back to the grower and inquire.

Thanks Patrick! It really does remind me of "Ryusen" too. Some things look a little different. But it might just be my particular plant, or the fact that it has sat in HD all summer. I have been searching Google for the past several days, and found no plants that even look similar. The "Ryusen" for sure does though!

Here's info for the company. I'm going to see if I can contact them and get more information. But regardless, I really like the look of this maple. It was 10 gallon and only $40. Not too bad. Last Fall, I got a 10 gallon inaba shidare for under $20. So not the best deal I've ever got, but still not too bad!

I think I found an email address. I am going to email them, and I will share any information I get here.

The label is wrong. That tree isn't a dissectum. What a mess.

Still waiting on their reply, but I bought some more today. ;) I already have 2 Bloodgoods, but this one was such a good deal, and really pretty, I couldn't pass it up. I also picked up an Emperor One for $10. It looked kind of rough, but figured it'd be worth a try. I also purchased a small Japanese cedar. They had some large ones earlier in the year next to the bloodgoods, and they looked really nice. It was only $12, so I thought I'd try it too.

This post was edited by Allan870 on Mon, Sep 16, 13 at 15:05

The company replied, and told me that if I researched Ryusens, the characteristics would all be the same. So it may be a case of them just having to sell it under a different name, due to copyright issues. But I've been researching the Ryusen, and it looks like it is going to be a really awesome!

I'd avoid purchasing from growers that make up names for plants. First, it means they are doing something a bit underhanded and second, you have no idea exactly what you are going to wind up with.

'Eric's Weeping' is not a registered cultivar name........perhaps this IS a Ryusen in disguise :-) There are not all that many weeping forms of Japanese maples that are not laceleafs/dissectums so your assumption that it may be the same plant is valid. Can you see an obvious graft union? Named JM's must be grafted. If a seed-grown tree, if could look very much like the parent plant (Ryusen?) but cannot be called by the same name. Whatever, even the tag on the pot is inaccurate as well as this is NOT a dissectum - those leaves are not in the slightest bit dissected or lacy.

It is for sure not a dissectum. I think Home Depot or whoever potted them just put like all the 10 Gallons in the same pot, and then put the correct tags on the branches. (Which isn't good if the tags fall off). The Bloodgood, which is the same size pot, said the same thing.

I think it probably is Ryusen. (Just from looking online). I'll post a photo of the leaves in a few weeks as they change. I'm not sure about the graft union. I'll try to get a photo of it... it's dark outside, but maybe I can get a decent photo with my phone.

This is the best photo I could get right now with my cell phone. I might could get my good camera out tomorrow and get a better one. It don't look grafted to me? But I did buy a large Inaba Shidare, (same size) and the trunk looked similar. The grafts on the smaller Maples I have are more obvious. I've not had them long enough to honestly know what the graft looks like as it gets larger.

(Dunno why the photo is sideways. It's not on my computer. :\ )

This is a renamed maple, and the true name is 'Ryu Sei' not 'Ryu Sen'.

This looks like 'Ryusen' which I own. I never heard of 'Erics Weeping' and don't know of any other green palmatums that grow like this. The picture of the trunk shows an obvious graft so it is not just a seedling of 'Ryusen' so most likly it is 'Ryusen' sold with an incorrect name to avoid copyright issues.

As far as the name "Ryusen' vs 'Ryusei' it is 'Ryusen' and that is not just my opinion, it was tracked back to a supplier on another forum and the response was:

"the proper name is 'Ryusen'. It is listed on my license agreement with ItSaul Plants, LLC as Acer palmatum 'Ryusen' PPAF. It translates roughly as 'falling waters' or 'flowing river'. I have seen it listed as 'Ryusei' in 'Book for Maples', a japanese book by Masayoshi Yano, but this is not correct. I have met Mr. Kobayashi from Kobayashi Maple Nursery, who found the plant and named it. He is the son of Jiro Kobayashi who selected 'Jiro shidare'. Mr. Kobayashi says that particular book has many mistakes and is generally not considered an authoritative text."

As far as the tree goes, I am very happy with mine. It is a very strong grower and pretty much wants to grow straight down. You should stake it if you want a taller tree, it doesn't seem to grow up at all. It has shown some really nice fall colors from yellow, orange, red and even a little purple. I'm sure you will like it. Here is a picture of mine early last fall when it was just starting to color up.

That is beautiful! I did go ahead and stake it. The stake is probably 6 or 7 feet tall. I am planning on building a stream in my backyard this spring. I plan on finding a way to feature the Ryusen along it. But after researching online and getting opinions on here, I'm almost certain that it is a Ryusen. I think it probably was a copyright issue.

What good is a copyright if the rules aren't followed and punishment is not enforced?
Mike

I probably would not have purchased it if I would've known it was a rip-off. :\ It didn't even cross my mind. It was just a really great price, and I thought it looked nice. I did find it odd that I couldn't pull up any information about it on my phone via Google, but didn't think about it until reading replies in this thread. It is for sure something that be in the back of my mind for future purchases.

You liked it and bought it. The only thing that's changed is the name, not the tree. Where's the rip-off?
Mike

I meant ripping off the hard work of people who produced the original plant and went through the trouble copyrighting it. I will try to be more conscious in the future and try to support those who put in the hard work to develop it.

Yeah, I see you there.
Could happen to anybody.
Mike

Very nice. Why on earth did you plant it so close to the fence? You realize it's a tree, right?

About time to get rid of the stake as well.

tj

It's not as close to the fence as it looks. The angle is deceptive. And I thought that I needed to keep it staked so that it would continue to grow upwards. I thought that Ryusens would basically be ground cover if not staked?

On topic:

I wouldn't worry about proximity to the fence given the strict pendulous nature of the branching that I have experienced. I would recommend having fun with staking the plant taller wider, or any shape you can imagine. I prefer the foliage, and structure (for winter interest) of acer japonicum 'green cascade', but ryusen is a whole different animal with its rapid growth and controllable versatility through training leaders and branches. Imagine arches, espaliers, pillars, hooks, anything you want. I once saw ryusen grafted to the tips of an upright maple (though it was very expensive given the time for production and the 20 some grafts it took to make).

Slightly off topic:

The recession affected us in a lot of ways. As a buyer for a local garden center I don't care what you want to call your acer palmatum emperor I, or your buxus green velvet, I know what it is, and I am shopping for the best value to pass on to my customers.

That being said, I miss having more customers that appreciated their plants not just as an addition to their house, but as you seem to--as a collector that appreciates their individual histories, and habits.

I habitually ride the fence leaning this way and that as you can tell.

I do not appreciate how some growers and box stores capitalized on the economic hardships that many of us experienced due to our inability to ignore our integrity as people who love plants, and our faithful customers.

Sometimes I think the weeping trees can look pretty cool up along a fence... this one is in Portland:

Here is a link that might be useful: Weeping maple against fence

And here's a better shot of the tree's form:

Here is a link that might be useful: winter shot

Where are you Allan870 that spring comes in January?

I actually decided to move this Maple to a container in the front yard. Here it is on January 25th. I am thinking that the weeping will look better in a container like this.

I'm located in Arkansas. Spring doesn't come here until late March, usually.

And the photos of the maple against the fence are amazing! What variety is that?

I've wanted a Ryusen for a few years, since the first time I saw one at a "better" nursery here just outside of Baltimore. At the time they were $150 for 3-footers and I figured I'd wait and see if they went down, but last summer they were $260!!!! Ridiculous. Really cool tree though, such a happy accident for you, congrats!

Leafed out:

I'm also thinking about trying to find some new varieties to order online today. I am always looking at nurseries & big box stores when I am traveling, but have not ran across anything great this year. I don't need any more maples, but it's such an obsession. :)

Ok, so I ordered a "Mikawa Yatsubusa," "Villa Taranto," & an "Autumn Moon" from Conifer Kingdom. I also got a "Twombly's Red Sentinel" as a free gift. Can't wait to get them in!

I have all of those except the Red Sentinel. And another dozen or so more.....all grown in containers. I am trying very hard not to get any more since they all need to be in containers and I run out of room, but there's usually one or two a season that I run across and just have to have. My current yen is for 'Manyo no Sato' but I'm holding out for just the right one.

I'd be hard pressed to pick a favorite - they all have their own individual appeal.

The "Manyo no Sato" looks really nice. I had not seen that one yet. I'm hoping to have the perfect spot for all of these in the ground. But if they are smaller, should I keep them in a container for a couple of years? Or would it be alright to just put them in the ground. I believe these are only going to be 2-3 year old plants, so they will be pretty small.

That's your choice. It depends a bit on location as well. In a colder winter climate and if you have issues with deer, voles or other hungry creatures, growing them on for a season before planting out is not a bad idea. But then you have the added worry of what to do with them over winter. In my climate, that's not a real concern but in colder zones, it does present an issue.

I'm zone 7A. I've got a lot of maples in my yard, but I was afraid these are going to be smaller than what I normally buy. I will have to wait until they come in and see I suppose lol. But I do have an unheated garage that I could overwinter them in. I have done that with some larger maples in the past, and had no problem. Thanks for your help.

I absolutely believe this is Ryusen. Same color and size of leaf and same bark.

I now believe that it is a Ryusen too. It was probably a copyright issue or something. There was several there at the time, I'm wishing that I would've picked up another one!

Really nice find, the container in the better choice in my opinion.

I like to resurrect the thread with a question, what is your thought on difference between 'Ryu Sei' or Ryusen and Cascade Gold (seen in the European market known to be a cross between Ryusen and Orange Dream). Anybody ever wondered if that's also a marketing scheme and those are actually the same plant? I do not know a lot of background honestly other than starting to see same looking plant sometime called Ryusend and sometime Cascade Gold (especially from the European nurseries )

The coloring of the two is completely different. Inseason coloring of Ryusen is green - a deep grass green. Inseason coloring of Cascade Gold is gold with orange highlights. They look a lot similar in fall but Ryusen has more reddish tones and Cascade Gold has more orange tones.

Here is what it looks like today. I moved last year from my childhood home and dug up most of the maples. It seems like they all love being in containers and didn't like the dirt at my old place. I put some other maples in containers a few years ago, and they really took off. I have been using a pine bark nugget mix, and they seem to enjoy that here.

The company replied, and told me that if I researched Ryusens, the characteristics would all be the same

= same cultivar even if not same clone. Unless they thought Joe Public wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the two anyway, and since information on 'Eric's Weeping' was scarce descriptions of the other would do.

Yes: it's not unusual for wholesale growers to have "their own introductions" that look a lot like existing, familiar varieties with different naming. For instance I've had a grower representative in my area use the same phrasing to characterize a conifer that had their own naming on it as was used about the 'Eric's Weeping'. That is that it had the same features as another, widely sold kind.

As with the response about the 'Eric's Weeping' it wasn't an explicit admission that they had put their own name on an established variety, but...

I've also had a grower here explain an unfamiliar variety name for a flowering tree they were offering by saying that it consisted of propagations of unlabeled specimens that were already on the property when they bought it. That they had actually assumed that this existing planting was the same kind as a variety they knew in the old country. But had gone ahead and made up a new name for their own sales here in the US.

The way they came right out with this story made me think such looseness with cultivar names was thought to be standard operating procedure in the industry. There certainly are cultivars that have acquired multiple synonyms over time, same as with various wild species plants.

My Ryusen in training

This I got from eBay where seller was referring to it as Ryusei. It was a tiny stick at that time but now behaving like it would grow in weeping style. I think the seller indicated that he grew this from seeds. It’s been like 3-4 years. I’m growing this in a pot, training still. I can tell you, this one does not produce the same type leaves ( initial leaves doesn’t display the florescent green like the one you see in typical Ryusen photos Posted before or leaves from the plant my previous post earlier ). Excuse the busy picture but this is my ”staging area where different potential growing at a close proximity. 🤓

If it is in fact a similar seedling then it wouldn't be the same clone as what somebody else would have on the market under the same name. Since Japanese maple cultivars, like various other cultivated plants do have a tendency to generate a percentage of similar seedlings* a way to deal with the recognition and classification of the resulting occurrence of multiple clones being generated and circulated that has been used in Britain is the designation Cultivar Group. For instance Cedrus atlantica Glauca Group instead of C. atlantica 'Glauca', and so on.

So it could be that some of the Japanese maple "cultivars" could stand to be given the same treatment, if visually similar seedlings of independent origins from one another have been getting passed around under shared cultivar names.

*For instance a friend that had a nursery for years sowed seed from a 'Sango kaku' one year and was able to select and grow on an entire block of coral barked seedlings as a result (he did not, however offer them as clonal 'Sango kaku')

Here is an update on this maple. It gets more beautiful with the passing of each season

Whoaaa... it is GORGEOUS!! Thanks for sharing an update, it‘s so nice to see the progress on these beauties. -Nicole