Most of the salvias of european origin which are commonly available are hardy, but if you're looking for plants to attract hummingbirds, they are just not the ticket. It would appear that the hardy hummingbird salvia list is still a work in progress. Many of us have had success with various cultivars of salvia gaurantica: Black & Blue Salvia and Argentina Skies. Others that should be hardy are: salvia uliginosa, salvia marachino, salvia wild watermelon, and sometimes pineapple sage and possibly salvia leucantha in exceptional years. Several types of salvia greggii are listed to zone 6. If you have sandy soil that stays dry over the winter you are much more likely to be successful. This winter the constant wet killed my salvia greggiis, but some of my salvia Black & Blues, and a single pineapple sage came through damaged, but ok. Another tip is to plant salvia high, and mulch them in winter with something that won't hold water.

I have salvia - Blue Hills or
Salvia nemorosa 'Blauhugel'which looks great with my roses. Very hardy, and benefits from deheading, but not necessary.

Alright... sandy soil! I'm on the bayshore so the plants might get wet but they don't sit in water but snow will sit on them. What type of mulch doesn't hold moisture?

Sheila

stones, rough woodchips, oak leaves aren't too bad. You should be OK on the bayshore - besides, there is nothing like killing a few to focus the mind. Snow is OK, you just want the soil to drain fairly quickly.

I prefer oak leaves. I find woodchips breed slugs.

Good point about woodchips - truth is I use whatever is handy and hope for the best.

No sign of life from salvia maraschino and wild watermelon, yet. Are they usually late?

Bad news about your maraschino and wild watermelon, my greggiis are presumed dead, and both the ones you mention are supposed to be extra hardy. Maybe it was just the unusual winter, since we don't normally get that much rain and ice and snow. How long did your's keep have green leaves? Mine were still alive in February, but by the end of that month were completely defoliated. Other losses were about 1/3 of my Black & Blue Salvia, although I'm uncertain whether it was wet or voles that did them in. The only common factor is the lost plants were only put in last spring, while the survivors had been in for several years.
Did your salvias spend late winter in standing water?
I'm especially sorry about your losses, since I have 3 Maraschino and 5 Wild Watermelon sitting out by the garage waiting to be planted. Why, because everything I read tells me these are among the most hardy in our region.

Wardw,
Where did you find Black and Blue Salvia?
I have 2 S. nemorosa Snow Hill which is very hardy for me. I think the foliage is stinky. It has a nice habit at first but then it flops over and leaves a bare circle inside at which point I suppose I should cut it back. Then new growth fills in the center. It flowers a long time and I haven't noticed any seeds or seedlings. I am not enthralled with them but will try a new spot before I toss them.
Have not had luck overwintering S gregii or S elegans. Really liked S. elegans Honeydew. It bloomed earlier, longer and was shorter than S. elegans. I bought a little one again and this time I will bring it in though I really hate bringing in plants.

A friend gave me Black & Blue about 8 years ago. It's commonly available at the standard mail order salvia sites, along with several other guarantica types. I think wellsweep in North Jersey lists it. One wonders, if you're in north Jersey, whether you would be able to overwinter the plants outside, especially if you have heavy soil. Two years ago Lowe's got a shipment in, but I didn't see any last year.
Let me ask you a question, where did you find honeydew? Do you mean Honey melon? I've never seen it for sale locally, and like the idea of a long blooming season: we all know the problem with the standard elegans: an explosion of blooms one day before the first hard freeze.
Can't say I know much about salvia nemorosa. They've been in the garden a few times, but never really caught my fancy - can their foliage really be as stinky as the cat box smell of black & blue?

Stinky cat box smell...I wonder what effect that would have on the squirrels.

Sheila

Well, now that you mention it, I bought Honeymelon Sage this year at Well Sweep Farm. I did question it a bit but figured perhaps they were the same. Two years ago I bought "Honeydew" sage from Kaufell Gardens out past New Hope, PA. So they are not the same?
Kaufell Gardens had several types of sage two years ago when I went but I can't be specific. Wellsweep had Indigo Spires this year. I should have grabbed one but I know I will be back.
I also like to buy Fruited Sage but that is tender. The leaves smell so good.

Sheila, I haven't noticed any effect on squirrels but maybe if I clipped some leaves and mulched my pots? Worth a try. They have been relatively well behaved so far this year. Just a few incidences.

I'm trying Indigo Spires this year. Three arrived a few weeks ago from High Country Gardens - they are small but growing. I sure wish Well Sweep were nearby, they do publish a nice list of salvias, and I'd rather semi locally.

How about Salvia lyrata? I just got one called Purple Volcano with interesting foliage.
For something completely different, I just noticed while checking on the salvia that the sweet potato from last year is sprouting. Woohoo!

Sheila

Does the catbox-smelling salvia have any effect on squirrels?

My favorite plants! I've had good luck bringing temperate salvias like Greggi in for the winter-- a crowded south-east kitchen window. Cool, bright, no fussing, just water. Watch for whitefly, don't feed, just be patient. They're not totally happy, but they survive and are miles ahead when its time to put them out in late May. Mine even bloom in late winter, but they really want to be outside. Take cuttings in September or pot up smaller plants and good luck. Atlock Farm (in Somerset?) is a good source.

well, something got to the sweet potato. Unfortunately, it is right by the squirrel super by-pass.

Sheila

By cat box smell, you mean Black & Blue. Squirrels aren't much of a problem for me, just those big tunnel digging rats that predict spring; even they don't touch them. Why are all the good salvia nurseries in central or north Jersey. Does anyone know of one in the Burlington County area? Around here they only carry the ones that don't interest hummingbirds, like May Night and its relatives.

'Honeymelon' does flower earlier, but the flowers are smaller than regular elegans. Both forms are starting to grow.

wardw

I did not check up on them over the winter. No they were not in standing water. They did not do well for me. I do not have much sun and they probably need more. I was planning on digging them up and donating them to the butterfly garden at our public elementary school.

Manny

I picked a couple up at the Frelinghuysen Plant Sale. Since I volunteered and a few were left, I got them at half price. I didn't get everything they had but I picked up Indigo Spires, Purple Majesty, S. van houtii Paul, I thought I got Hot Lips but its not in my flat. Rats. Plus an unmarked rasberry colored S. greggii.
Speaking of stinky, did you ever try Caryopteris divaricata?

I overwintered my Salvia elegans in a plastic bag the way I do with dahlia tubers in my attic. Seem liked it worked as I am getting some growth. Lets see how fast they catch up to the cutting and if it's worth it.

That was one nice plant sale. I read that S. Van Houtii Paul is a great seed producer, something rare in Salvia Splendens. I nearly bought one so I could collect the seeds: you never know what color flowers the seedlings will have.

We grew Caryopteris Longwood Blue for several years - not anymore, the garden as it tends to do, swallowed it up. I can't recall whether it smelled.

There's been plenty of talk about Hot Lips over at the hummingbird garden site, folks really seem to like it. Truth be told, they all look good to me, which is one of the reasons there are 100 or so salvias sitting in front of the garage. maybe after enough casualties I'm learn something, and even as annuals they are very cool.

By the way, I've had trouble overwintering van houtii, which most folks say is easy. Both times I've lost it, it's been from kindness. While it can't take subzero temperatures, it also can't seem to handle warm dry indoor temps. If I ever grow it again it will be in the above freezing florida room, not under lights or on a warm window sill.

Good idea on the Pineapple Sage, although I'm surprised it works. I don't know why I bother to overwinter it at all? It is always available at the Red Top at Rt70 & Rt206 for a couple of dollars a pot. Maybe I'll stick to the mail order ones this year.

I overwintered it to see if I get earlier flowering this year as the root system is more substantial and as an experiment. Also, its $3 bucks I can spend on something else.
I like the attic thing. No bugs. No watering. I dig the dahlias and salvia up after a frost kill. Wash everything. Let it air dry on the surface but not internally. Then ziplock it up or if its too big, this year I used some of those zipper plastic packaging that the linens come in and also just some tied off bags. I just check on everything from time to time. It gets very warm up there on sunny days but everything survived. Although I did have one earth worm who feasted all winter on one of my dahlias. He was kind enough not to eat the whole thing. Surprisingly, he was alive though lethargic when he was finally freed.

wardw, If I get some seeds, I will be glad to share some. It already has a flower opening so email me in August or so if I don't remember.

I'd like that. We'll see if I can remember too. Maybe a post later in the summer on how the salvia did will work. It can be an exchange, since some of my salvias should produce seed also; there even could be some rather strange hybrids.

I marked you in my calendar as a reminder.

What is the bug that leaves spittle on the plant? I noticed it on the salvia nemerosa today.
TIA

sheila

Lyre-leaf sage is perennial in the fact that it will self seed. I find many seedlings in my lawn! Why can't the plant seed into the garden?! LOL

You still have a lawn?
Sheila
hehehe

That could be the spittle bug...

Here is a link that might be useful: spittle bugs

eeeeeeeeeuuuuuuuuuuwwwwwwwwwwww....
and how does the spittle bug create that stuff...
# The spittle bubbles are produced when the bug moves it s body up and down in a billow like motion.
# As it is doing this motion, its body secretes a goo and air out of its anus.
# The bubbles are formed the spittle bug uses its hind legs to manipulate the bubble around its body, thus creating its home and protection.

and that's just from the first google site I got from your link, Loretta.

Sheila, who has spittle bugs...

I found one on a weed so far. At least the spittle is white.

Ok, I went out to Kaufell Gardens today and got:
Black and Blue salvia- yeah! I've been looking for that one.
Also picked up Honeydew as labeled and Mexican sage. 2.50 each.
They did have a few types of S. nemorosa but I didn't get any for 3.99 each. May Night comes to mind as one of them.

Well, no more spittle and the plants are blooming. Nice.......

I have to get a few more tough plants for that section. I yanked out a hedge of hardy hibiscus and an overgrown RoS just to be able to properly maintain the area. Unfortunately, DH loves the creeping Phlox so that has to remain. I would really like to put in a few more salvias.

Sheila

Why do none of the nurseries in the Burlington Co area carry Honeydew, it seems to be easily found just out of my reach?

I overwintered "Black & Blue" in Little Falls, "Northern" NJ, although I think it has to do with urban warming. It was late coming up, but it did return. My pineapple sage and a large Purple Salvia ( unmarked when I bought it) did not survive. This was the winter of 2003/04.

Corwins Florist in Warwick NY has 6" "Black & Blue"

I got another Black and Blue in bud at Atlocks yesterday as well as Waverly. They were $3. I guess this is not helping as none of these are perennial.

Black & Blue should be perennial along the bayshore as long as the soil is well drained. Here in Medford some of them have expanded over a foot since last year, and even in this cold spring some are almost a foot tall now. It could even become a pest like it does in the south-east.

So I was weeding...I think I understand about the catbox smell now...

Sheila

wardw,
Did you look in the herb section? That is where I usually find them.

Thanks for the tip. I've noticed over the years that standard pineapple is usually in the herb sections. It's OK if I don't find this plant(sour grapes), it give me something to try another year. There are now so many experimental salvias in the garden that I'm sure I've tipped over the edge anyway. But as many of them come into bloom, I'm beginning to think crazy just might be a beautiful thing.

I got some perennial salvia at my local nursery, and they come back every year. IMO they are better than the annuals on flat trays because I am tired of digging 24 holes every year. The annuals are taller and more showy though, and look really great with roses.