Debra, you have my sympathies. I am sorta near you and also relish the quiet atmosphere in these parts. Its why I moved here. As my road gets busier with traffic, though, and when they finally put up the 100 unit development nearby, I've been thinking about what candidate towns are further west and still reasonable access.

As far as the labor of love garden, I have been realizing the past few years its way too much work and a smaller garden for the retirement years makes sense too.

It seems that it would be worth it to give things a chance and try to solicit their cooperation. But only you will be able to decide what you can accept.

I am also wondering about the proximity of the car and the pond. are there any watershed issues?

9 adults in one residence doesn't seem quite right. is it septic or town sewer?

I have another approach which might be a bit off-beat, but why don't you give them the gift of gardenin? Buy them some grape vines and offer to help them build a large (giant...ha ha) grape arbor for the two of you to share. Perhaps the perfect spot for such a thing is right where their swing set is? Maybe get them into gardening in general and they wouldn't park cars all around or have the kids in that area near your property line if they were protecting their garden?
Now...if anyone has any advice on how to get my neighbor to move his falling down shed that is right in my view of my pond, I would love to hear it :) ha
good luck Debra!
Kathy

Kathy-- stealth honeysuckle plantings? Native of course. ;)

I'd say this is a case of cultural differences meeting head on. They probably have absolutely no idea that the things they are doing are not the "norm" for the neighborhood, and that they are annoying you.

While I wouldn't suggest that the world would be a better place if we were all alike, maybe you can look for an opportunity to tell them, very kindly, that leaving all of that stuff in the yard and parking a car back there is not considered "the thing to do" in your neighborhood, and that it looks messy to you when you are trying to enjoy your garden. They will either clean it up, or tell you where to go. Maybe if you're very clear at the start that you like them, and think they are very nice folks, and good neighbors, and that you are sure they don't realize that their habits interfere with your enjoyment of your garden, they won't be insulted. The brownies would certainly take the sting out of it a bit.

I honestly don't think nationality has anything to do with it. There is some sort of karma that avid gardeners have "relaxed" neighbors. I speak from experience. The only thing we can do is create screens on our own property. If I had it to do all over again, I'd plant my borders before I did a single thing. Tho when I finally got around to doing it, and the hedges were beautiful, the deer moved in so I am back to square one.

Different cultures exist within a single nationality, so I was not referring specifically to Brazilians, but to people being accustomed to different lifestyles. My lifestyle is very different from that of my nieces and step-children, with the cultural differences being generational and economic instead of ethnic.

My step-daughter thinks it's OK to put her feet (with shoes) on the coffee table when she comes over, because that is how she lives, and that is how her mother lives. We don't do that at our house.

This is a tough situation. And it's not really about gardening, at all. I agree with Paige, for what its worth.

What!!?? I mean, c'mon, they're playing with their grand kids, and laughing loudly? Hurry!! Call the cops!! A rope swing? Well, I never!

Delivering Chinese food and paper routes? Oh my god, your neighborhood is turning into a slum!! The nerve of this family...trying to achieve the American dream!

I'll have to agree w/ chelone, Paige and you as well...suck it up.

you might consider moving to some kind of gated community with a homeowner's association you could participate in. my cousin lives in a gated community in nebraska and she appears to be getting good value for her homeowner's association dollar. for years, she has derived much pleasure from bossing her neighbors around and keeping running lists of everyone else's alleged infractions. a couple years back she hosted a cookout for our family and she was so tickled because she'd successfully forced everyone on her block to mow their yards the day before.

so yes, there *are* places where you can get your machiavelli on.

allow me to suggest nebraska.

Here is a link that might be useful:

Hi, in Massachusetts, it is the building inspector's office that you contact about what the zoning requirements are in your particular neighborhood. I assume this is single family zoning? If you live in a small town you have a much better chance of getting help. Towns can vary quite a bit as to the zoning laws and how many occupants a dwelling can have. How big is this house? Bedrooms/bathrooms?

Debra is taking quite a hit for bringing this up. Don't be put off, Debra - many of us can sympathize. This is definitely culture clash, speaking as one who's been all over Portugal and Brazil. Generally speaking, it's a warm, exuberant culture, very family oriented and with strong traditions.

Changes in your neighborhood can be really tough to take. The more you get to know these people, though, the better off you'll be. Let them know how much you enjoy sitting in your quiet back yard or on your quiet porch! They may make noise while they're enjoying themselves, but they're not insensitive to others' preferences, and it may surprise them to find that their conversations are bothering anyone.

We've had some discussions here or on the perennials forum about new neighbors who fight, abuse their children, and keep vicious dogs. People who make noise having fun with their families are not the worst neighbors, but it still must be quite annoying after years of peace and quiet.

Thanks, dtd, for putting it so well. I thought some of the responses to Debra were a bit harsh, to say the least, but decided to wait a day before posting. You worded it well.

It takes some time to adjust to changes in the neighborhood, and while Debra's neighbors aren't necessarily the neighbors from hell, they are still a change from what she was used to.

Best of luck to you, Debra. I've got loud, obnoxious, obscene teens to deal with, although as they get older its not so bad, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this too will pass. I hope you too find some common ground with your neighbors and that you all can continue to enjoy your backyards.

Dee

I was leary when one of my neighbors got an above ground pool a few years back. I envisioned lots of screaming kids doing dive-bombs, but turns out they rarely use it. THey go to the Cape most summer weekends. Lucky me!

On the other side of me, a family just moved in who do use their backyard a lot and the kids' voices carry. Nothing like what you are describing, but noticeable enough that it is a change from my formerly super quiet neighbors. I can't see them though. I appreciate that.

Sometimes I say to myself "ah...the sounds of summer.." and try to ignore it. :-)

I definitely would not want to go over and encourage them to be quieter. I would feel uncomfortable myself putting my needs over theirs (non-confrontational person that I am). However, if it were more extreme, perhaps I would. Hard to know.

I am happy to see Debra getting some support on this subject. It is easier when you are young to tolerate and enjoy things than it is when you are older. Being an older person who also has health issues, I can say that I have become much less resilient and tolerant. Peace and quiet are very important to me. Noise intolerance seems to me to have become an actual physical limitation that I did not have when I was young. I remember everyone always telling me to turn down the radio. [g] Now noise and too much stimulation feels like a physical pain. When I was young, I didn't understand why older people were such party poops. [g] Now I know why, unfortunately.

The point is that everyone is different. What might be exciting and stimulating to one person, can be stressful to someone else. Everyone needs their space and certain living arrangements just make it harder for everyone to get what they need. I remember three decker houses on very small lots when I was growing up. It was great for us kids. We ended up with lots of friends to play with. Looking back, I can't imagine being an older person living in those neighborhoods. We were LOUD and very active and always getting into something.

We all do our best to choose and develop our property to meet our own needs for privacy the best we can. We should expect to tolerate reasonable disruptions and the differences of our neighbors and expect that they will do the same. What is reasonable to one person is not necessarily to someone else. There comes a time though, when you might outgrow your neighborhood. You may find that the changes in the neighborhood or changes in your life are out of sync. I think it is a personal choice that other people can't make for us. There is nothing wrong with Debra wanting her neighborhood to be what she needs or wants it to be. If it has been that way and now has changed, I don't see any reason to criticize her for that.

Debra, only you know what your situation is and only you can figure out if you are up for the challenge and the opportunities theses changes present. If you are not, you may have to seriously think about moving if there are no adaptations you can make that work for you. I think the point of your post was that you were asking for ideas for any adaptations you could consider. I think you have gotten a few ideas. I can't really add anything else that hasn't been said. To me, if there is a way for you to screen out the view or if you are up for making friends with the neighbors, that seems like the best you can do.
Good luck :-)

"...Looking back, I can't imagine being an older person living in those neighborhoods..."

PM2, I can relate to this big time! I grew up in a city in a rowhouse; actually, a street with 8 rowhouses on it. The rest of the houses on the street were mostly two-and three-family houses. There were 10 kids per square inch (which meant we had three different ice cream men every night, and occasionally, a fourth!) Our street was the playground, there was at least one of every type of game going on, and obviously it was just a short walk to everyone's front door. What more could a kid want? It was kid heaven.

I look back and think I could not have had a better neighborhood to grow up in (never mind that it was three blocks away from one of the worst housing projects in CT, lol!) My kids, now "stuck" in the suburbs, always say they wished they grew up in a neighborhood like mine.

But, also looking back, I now have a lot more empathy and respect for the adults who lived there. I could not imagine living so on top of other people like that now, with a yard about 20 by 10 feet, and with only enough street space for one car per house. I have a lot more understanding for the "old ladies" who complained about footballs in their rose bushes, or broken windows from baseballs - although I have to add, in amazed deference to all my neighbors, there were very few complaints about us being loud, and even when a broken window occurred, it was just fixed and we all carried on with our lives. Of course, we kids were respectful, and each neighbor had the permission (and encouragement, lol!) of each parent to discipline each kid!

But again, I guess it comes down to what one is used to, what one's comfort level with a certain type of neighborhood is, and as PM2 says, what one's comfort level with change is. Our yards are our personal space (and I think as gardeners they are even more special to us) and we all have to find a way to use our personal space in a way that is compatible with our neighbor's use of theirs. Not always easy. Again, good luck Debra.

:)
Dee

Dee...

Thanks for the walk down memory lane. [g] It sounds like we had similar experiences. We moved a lot when I was a kid but a few of our neighborhoods were all two family homes. One that I particularly remember with fondness was 2 blocks from a square, and around the corner from the library. I had forgotten about the ice cream truck until you mentioned it. I think your neighborhood was larger than ours. [g] Our parents always had the nickel or dime so we could get an ice cream. I still remember the Creamsicles, Fudgsicles and NuttyBuddies. We were out early in the morning and in by dark. It is so funny because I can not for the life of me remember what the interior of the house I lived in looked like, but I remember the entire neighborhood. lol

We had more fun playing games of every kind too. No swimming pools to be had but that didn't seem to bother anyone at all. I don't even remember any wading pools. Our yards were so tiny I don't remember being in anyone's backyard, just the street. We lived at the base of a small hill and when it snowed, OMG, we couldn't have had more fun sledding. And there always seemed to be plenty of snow. There was hardly any traffic, maybe a car 5 or 6 times a day.

We had only one gardener in the neighborhood. He was an older Italian man who had an arbor and was trying to grow grapes on it. Everyone was always reaching over his fence to sample the grapes and I can still remember him yelling his head off at the kids. We all thought he was such a grouch! [g] The poor man, we must have driven him crazy. I wish he knew what a pleasure he provided for all of us kids by having those grapevines. Even without eating the grapes, it was so unique in the neighborhood and such a nice brush with nature.

I don't remember any of the neighbors complaining. I think the reason was because just about every household had kids. Funny, the only adults in the neighborhood I remember, were the gardener and my best friend's parents who had me over for dinner at least once a week. The parents were more than happy for the kids to be out all day playing. That was what made it work because everyone had similar lifestyles. There was one boy who was the bully of the group and I seem to remember everyone having a problem with him and his family, but minor problems. We all stuck up for each other and the younger kids in the neighborhood. I don't remember any damage except one broken window on the front door of our house, that a friend put her arm through when chasing someone into the house playing tag. We were all quite shaken when she had to go for stitches.

We had so much freedom in those days. You just had to go home and tell your parents where you were going. At certain ages, we were allowed to go to the square and get a 25 cent sundae at Rexall Drugs. About the only thing our parents would say was, 'take your brother'. [g] There was a central area in the square where snow was piled in the winter and I still remember playing 'king of the hill' and no one telling us not to. Halloween was one of our favorite holidays in that neighborhood. We would all go out in groups with our best friends and it was just pure fun. There was a hotel across from the library and on Halloween they invited the neighborhood kids in for cider and donuts. We looked forward to that all year.

Dee...kid heaven is right. I can't imagine going back and living there now though. lol

pm2 :-)

We currently live in the kind of neighborhood described by PM and Dee. The houses are on (less than) 1/4 acre lots and the kids play outside in the street/on the sidewalks all day long. It's calmed down a bit in recent years since a few of the families with 3 or more kids upsized to bigger houses a few blocks away, but we have all stayed close and their kids still come back to the 'hood to play.

We have two elderly couples and a few empty nesters on our street, and none of them have ever complained about the kids. In fact, they encourage the kids to play in their yards because the sounds of the kids playing remind them of days gone by. When our big tree out front was cut down, my DS was upset because it was "his" climbing tree. The older woman across the street came over and invited him to climb on her very similar tree any time he wanted, an invitation she had issued before but she saw the need to tell him personally again.

I have made sure to teach our neighborhood kids to respect the older people in the neighborhood. (It's an easy lesson for them to learn because the kids are treated with respect and kindness, so they naturally reciprocate.) We stop and talk to them whenever they are around and since the woman across the street died this past Spring, we have done whatever we can to help her widower. In other words, the world does not revolve around the kids, but their presence is encouraged and tolerated and they are part of a community.

A new guy moved in across the street, right next door to the corner lot where the kids play the most on a swingset and tree swing. He's lived here for a couple of years with his girlfriend, and we all got along well. He recently complained about the noise of the kids playing while he's working at home during the day and the fact that they cut across his lawn. He has now been labled the neighborhood grump. I feel bad for him, and I do get the lawn thing and have enforced that with the kids. But really, with respect to the noise, he knew what he was getting into moving into a neighborhood like this. It's not like the kids are screaming their heads off constantly, they are just playing and making noise along with it. I'm not going to tell them to be quiet for his sake, and neither is anyone else.

I recently read an article that quoted the following statistic: only 8% of children play outside regularly, excepting organized sports. 8%!! I can't even imagine that.

One last story. I grew up next door to an older couple who had turned every inch of their yard into beautiful gardens with pathways. It was a magical place. But we had to learn to respect everything when we were invited over, because this was not like our yard with the woods out back. They always had a little piece of candy for us and they introduced us to the world of fresh vegetables. I still remember them and their yard vividly.

So, bringing this back to the original topic, I understand that change is hard for people, particularly with respect to their homes and surrounding area. But instead of thinking of the noise from the children as being annoying, think about the fact that they are going to grow up to be healthier, more active, well adjusted people than 92% of the country. Think about getting to know the kids, because once you are a little invested in them the noise they make will be likely be amusing instead of annoying. Finally, if you treat them with warmth and tolerance, they will always remember you.

I am happy this thread has moved into the realm of empathy and constructive advice. As with a previous thread, I see this website as an appropriate place to bring concerns about the environment- emotional, spiritual and physical- we create around us. I guess we could create a forum called "neighbors" or "problems" but this forum feels like home to many of us, and we recognize each others monikers and have a feel for the concerns, interests, and knowledge of the posters.

Go back to the beginning of this post, and re-read the responses. I find the tone and changes revealing.

Also, it is not like the space here is limited...not like an "off topic" question takes up a valuable chapter of print or is bad writing that you've paid for, like a disappointing book. There are many enticing posts, which when I actually read the question are of no interest to me (or maybe I'm not in the mood to go back to deadheading 101, and I'm sure there's someone out there is happy to teach at the moment). I move onto something else.

REad the post, and if it seems uninteresting, don't look at the thread again.

Idabean/Marie

I also grew up in an old small town neighborhood of two family homes, most of them converted from large, stately one-family houses. There were renters, but the homeowners lived on the premises, and there were a lot of kids.

We also played outside most of the day, and had to be home when the streetlights came on. The neighboring parents had no problem correcting us when we were out of line, and we played across several backyards. One neighbor (older folks) had grapes, cherries, and pears, and we were welcome to take all we wanted. Another had a big bonfire every autumn on his vegetable garden to burn branches and such, and we all came with our potatoes to vaporize at the edge of the fire, and the older kids told creepy stories that scared the younger ones. We had tomato fights with over-ripe tomatoes when there was a bumper crop, and used to help ourselves to cucumbers if we needed a snack.

Subsequent homes I've lived in were all in-town locations, with a similar mix of age groups. I never thought about why I had an aversion to homes in suburbia beyond a dislike for the general newness and sometimes sterile, over-groomed atmosphere, but this thread makes me see why.

Back to the topic: I'd make friends with them, try to enjoy their warmth and exuberance, and let them know, in a nice way, that you enjoy some quiet time. They sound like nice people, and may try to accomodate you.

I can understand DebraB's concerns, this is a big issue for a lot of people. My best friend and his wife just put their house on the market, partly because their next door neighbor is driving them nuts. He literally put an ATV track in his backyard!

I love my peace and quiet too, and eventually will move to someplace a little quieter. My neighbors are all nice people and it's pretty quiet here, but there is a constant barrage of noise from asorted mowers, blowers, whackers, clippers, etc especially on the weekend. Oh and let's not forget the trucks and tractors in the farmland across the street! I absolutely love my gardens but when I move will just bring lots of perennials with me and make new gardens at the new house.

One thing for sure life is about change - there's no getting around it. More noisy neighbors could move in, or something else. Life is too short to be stressed out all the time and so moving is an option.

But if you stay, could you add some nice shrubbery, fencing and/or trellises to create more privacy?

I am also glad to see that the nasty and sarcastic have been overshadowed by sympathetic posters on this thread. I was sure the negativity was going to come out eventually but am glad to see that it didn't last. Keep up the good work people!

WG

I, too, am happy to see more positive posts in response to Debra's plight (with which I can entirely sympathize!) -- I see no useful purpose (and much potential hurt) caused by gratuitous sarcasm and criticism. It simply doesn't contribute to the dialogue, nor is it intended to. And that is unfortunate. Most people who post on this site are looking for a sympathetic ear and (in most cases), a few helpful suggestions. Let's give them a break -- and some help.

I think many of us have been in Debra's situation in one form or another, and it can be a frustrating and dispiriting experience. I would agree with suggestions to create new screening (hopefully green), and would suggest perhaps consulting a landscape design consultant for ideas. However, I would absolutely question, with your town, the concept that there are 9 adults PLUS children living in the house. In our community, that would constitute a "multi-family" use that would not be permitted in our zoning category ("single family"). It is worth asking your town; among other things, having that many people crammed into a house, unless it is a very large house, can pose safety hazards in the unfortunate event of a house fire or other calamity. So I would ask what the regulations are, that's all.

But we (most of us!) DO empathasize with a sudden change in one's vista or lifestyle. It can be tough to adjust and it's not surprising that it's bothering you at first. Hopefully, both you and they will make some adjustments. Failing that, if you don't want to move, I'd look into screening. I have seen some tiny little courtyard gardens in cities that, with creative plantings, are complete "islands" unto themselves -- you can't even see adjoining buildings. A good landscape architect might be well worth the investment!

Good luck!

I recently admitted on another gardening forum that I am the neighbor that folks write scathing threads about. I am sure it is hard for those of you who know me to believe this (because in fact I am perfect in almost every way) but it is true. I am the owner and responsible party of a very innocent looking Labrador Retriever who has emotional doggy problems that cause him to sneak over to the neighbors, steal anything that they have neglected to lock up, tip toe back home and bury these treasures in my garden. To date this summer I have unearthed well over a dozen shoes, dolls, stuffed animals, dog toys, ect. We have done just about everything we can think of to stop this behavior and are convinced that he is tying the sheets together and sneaking out in the dead of night. When I first admitted to being one of those bad neighbor types that prompt folks to write long threads on the internet publicly admonishing them, I was SHOCKED by the huge volume of responses from other bad neighbor types all completely aware of their annoying behaviors. Some felt helpless to change the behavior, others felt it was retribution for things they have had to tolerate, and many others stood tall saying this is who I am you can choose to get along with me and how I live or.move. So I wonder are there any bad neighbor types on this forum??? kt

OMG, Kt that is a hysterical photo. Of course it if were my stuffed chicken I'd be pissed!!!
In a way I'm one of those neighbors, in an area where we all would fall into that category one way or another. We just all put up with one another's ways and try to get along.
I had 6 huge norway maples removed from my property line and my neighbor was thrilled, his veggie garden was finally getting sun. I then found him trimming the tops off of flowering quince that was along the same fence line on my side of the fence. Also caught them putting their daughter over the fence to swim in my pool while I was away. So...8 foot trellises with grape vines now block the fence so the kid can't come over, and a nice row of american black arborvitae just out of reach on my side of the fence for some privacy.
Of course they put up with all the noise of the hardscaping machinary that was working my land the past 3 years.
We all put up with screaming kids, barking dogs, the lady across the street who has a speaking voice that borders on scream/cackle, the kids who damage anything on the curb strip. Liberals/conservatives/middle of the roaders, the agoraphobic who's grass is waist high and refuses offers to mow, we all try to get along here. I guess in one way or another we're all paying for things we did as kids! LOL

Enjoy the summer!
Karma happens...
Chaz

Another vote for the better tone. It is sad to see that too often some posters always have a negative post to add.
I hope the tone of this forum follows the tone of this thread and returns to a less confrontational place.

I will second (or third) the response that you are going to have to live with it or move. A community with covenants may be a good fit, or maybe you will learn to tolerate the change.

I am sorry that you are not enjoying your yard right now. While we have pretty good neighbors, there are some days that my animal loving self would love to go strangle my neighbors incessantly barking dogs!

OK, I'm the neighbor with the barking dogs. I don't let them bark on and on, and as soon as I hear them, I go out and either shush them or bring them in. But sometimes I'm in the shower, or vacuuming, or on an important phone call, and it takes a few minutes to get out there. Plus, I do rescue, and have four small dogs, so it must seem like one of them is barking at any given time.

Fortunately, I'm on an acre, and there are enough plantings to at least muffle the noise a little. And the new neighbors across the street have a Westie that they allow to bark for an hour at a time almost every day, so by comparison, mine are like little angels. :o)

My biggest sin is my wandering cat. But I put up with plenty from my neighbors as well, such as loud parties right outside my bedroom window at night on one side and the guy who drives too fast in his new sports car on the other side. And don't get me started on the constant leaf blowers going on both sides, even in the summer because they want to keep their driveways spotless. So I figure we are all even in the end.

Runkt, that is an hysterical picture! Very amusing!

Personally I would MUCH rather listen to kids playing, dogs barking, or the band practicing a couple blocks away than lawn mowers and chain saws anyday!

Chaz I like your live and let live attitude. While my neighbors and their noisy motorized lawn equipment are annoying at times, sometimes I think their antics are amusing. One neighbor brought the fine art of pruning to new heights when I saw him shearing his green meatball shrubs with a chain saw last fall.

While I'm pretty quiet, I'm sure there have been times when my neighbors have looked askance at what I was doing with the gardens. Mine are a work in progress and so there always seems to be kind of ugly piles of wood chips, rocks, compost, trimmings, coffee grounds, cardboard, etc. laying around, including in the front yard.

Great photo, Katy. Wish that was all my dog did, instead of chasing the neighbors like a maniac, on the 3 occasions over the past 2 years when he's escaped.

It's not my dog that makes me a bad neighbor, though, because he's comparatively quiet and usually very well behaved.

About 15 years ago, I ratted out my neighbors to the town for dumping their lawn clippings and leaves in a vernal pool down the street. Seems compost piles are too much trouble and the pool is just wasted space... never mind that we're in a flood plain (vernal pools protect us against floods) and the pool is an environmentally fragile ecosystem.

They still haven't forgiven me, although we are mostly all back on speaking terms, and they still dump garden "waste" there. Now I just look the other way when they go by with their trash cans.

I secretly dream of buying all their houses and knocking them down to make room for a really big garden.

"...I secretly dream of buying all their houses and knocking them down to make room for a really big garden..."

Ahhhh, yes, I think that is the dream of all of us, lol! I've already got my future gardens in my neighbors' yards laid out and planned in my mind!

:)
Dee

oh, kt, you brute!
that poor thieved stuffed chicken does not appear to be enjoying his dirt nap at all!
for shame!

allow me to suggest bribery. i've found that a (gosh, how shall i phrase this so as not to offend?) slightly persnickety neighbor might become more disposed to overlook one's own perceived bad neighbor tendencies -- the 8-foot pirate flag flapping in the breeze, the lush planting of choice thistles & other prickly flora gracing one's hell strip, etc. -- when he routinely discovers gift tomatoes sitting on his front stoop.

if one follows good succession planting procedures, vegetable bribes can be applied to potentially disgruntled neighbors as needed throughout the entire growing season.

but you'd better behave during the winter.

:0)

dtd,
I'll turn in your neighbor if you turn in mine!!! They would never make the connection!!!
mor,
share...hmmm...As my tomatoes (seeds from Italy) have yet to develop bottom rot I think I would rather add the adjective selfish to bad neighbor type.

kt, i hope you will forgive me if i beg to differ with your self-assessment.

i'm pretty sure david austin has named a rose after you ...

I second that, MoR! Katy is in fact a MOST Generous Gardener, and I'm glad someone's named a rose after her.

And thank you for not providing the link to the page that has the "add to cart" button, that was a kind thing to do considering how impulsive some of us can be when faced with beautiful pictures and glowing descriptions of plants with catchy names. I had to go searching for that myself.

no, thank you, dtd.

i'd been wracked with guilt, shame, & self-loathing since yesterday morning, when i impetuously ordered three roses for spring '08 delivery.

my greatest sin today appears to be mere enabling.

Thanks for the very nice comments they were particularly wonderful to read after having come in from mowing my lawn with a mower that seems to be permanently stuck at the lowest blade height setting. What is it with men and sheering the lawn down to the level of loam even when they know better? This is a long running issue in my house and the only answer I ever get is a Cheshire Cat Grin. So guys PLEASE share with me whats the compulsion??? Now that I have that off my bucksome chest wouldn't it be cool to have a plant named after you... much cooler than a building. kt

Katy,
Respond privately if you wish, but what does a bucksome chest look like? Some part of a stag I'm not familiar with? !!! I think you win the double entendre misspelling award for the week, even if I don't entende the other meaning.
Marie

Having been a former owner of 3 Generous Gardener roses, I hope you didn't buy that rose, despite the great name. I had 3 of them for a couple of years and I didn't care for them. Firstly, I didn't believe that they would be hardy enough to get 8-10' in my climate. But alas they were and they did! I didn't have that much room to spare for them. Especially when their blooms only lasted only a couple of (heavenly) days. And lasted even shorter time after the JB's came out.

I actually donated them to the tower hill botanic garden's plant sale last year, hoping they would find a more grateful owner.

From my own experience, I can tell you that large rubber trees make a nice dense screen. I have two that are over 5ft now. I successfully air-layered to get about 6 more plants started this summer...so next year should be a complete green-out! I can also tell you that leaving the house occasionally...say to visit someone elses garden...also improves the view. :)

I'm a tenant in a 5-family in Fall River (land of the Azorean Portuguese). My porch was my oasis...absolutely covered with greenery, a small fountain, matching chairs and nice seagrass mat. I have a window on one side where I put a small radio to listen to jazz (quietly) on WGBH at night. I would read, eat breakfast or just relax while tending to my container gardens. Im relatively young, somewhat friendly and enjoy creating pleasant spaces.

My neighbors, unfortunately, have a very different idea of "oasis". It aint pretty or peaceful, I can tell ya. They have over-run the porch with ugly lawn furniture, appliances, wanna-be-gangsta-kids, cords, trash, and a boom box that plays Nascar races at top volume. They have removed my laundry from the clothesline, shoved my bf in the hallway, stolen my bike, killed my sunflowers, and are currently plotting to steal my organic tomatoes (they keep checking for fruit!!). They also complained so vehemently about my putting 3 chairs on the lawn for company 4th of July that my landlord threatened to evict me on the 5th. And you know what? This is the only place I can afford right now and there is nothing I can do about it (though I will fight for my tomatoes...lol).

I can't force people to respect me. I can't make them understand that there really IS middle ground somewhere where everyone can be happy and comfortable. My neighbors have no interest in looking for compromise. But if you have neighbors that have opened the door to communication (in whatever form), take advantage of it. It is a blessing they are trying to be social with you...though maybe they are also plotting to steal your tomatoes! hahahaha
Best wishes.

seeuatmidnight,
I love Fall River! I love seeing it all laid out in front of me when we cross the bridge. I love the Portugese food. And you're so close to everything.

You put Debra Boston's problems in perspective. I'd rather be annoyed by my neighbors than scared of them.

Yes, seeuatmidnight, I think you may have put a lot of our "neighbor problems" in perspective. My babushka grandma, whenever we would complain about something, would always say, "There's always someone else worse off than you are". I used to *hate* when she said that, lol! I was looking for sympathy and I was basically told to deal with it and get over it.

As an adult though, I see her point. There is always someone in, or with, a worse situation than your own, which does help put things in perspective. Not to say that your own problem isn't a problem (and Debra I'm not slamming you here - I still stand by my original post above regarding your situation and still wish you a good resolution), but sometimes by comparison you can see that things could be worse and that you don't have it so bad after all, that things can be worked out.

Good luck, seeuatmidnight. I hope you get to enjoy every single one of your tomatoes!

:)
Dee

seeuatmidnight, oh my goodness! I am probably a bad person for thinking that you should inject your tomatoes with hot pepper juice, aren't I?

lol...Greening that is too funny! I was thinking maybe PESTicides have a bigger purpose, after all! And what's the worst smelling plant I can get to live in a shaded area?

I am always fascinated by individuals looking at a situation and seeing entirely different stuff going on. Not always amused...but always fascinated.

It's all just a good reason to spend more time at the beach. :)

Man o man! What an assortment of responses! Thanks to all of you who have responded (even the sarcastic ones). I have to admit it was a lot easier to read the sympathetic responses than the sarcastic ones, but I did ask for it, remember, so I feel I should "take it".

In the middle of it all, I really enjoyed reading about how folks grew up in neighborhoods, where kids ran around all day long. I was one of those too. Winning a 6-hour hula hoop contest (because that was how long the playground stayed open!!!) I was much skinnier then! Snow Cones and making pot holders and other stuff you tried to sell door to door. You could sell it too! Everyone knew who you were and would give you 50 cents or something for your "work". Roller skating down the middle of the street with skates that clung tightly to your shoes -- you used a skate key that hung around your neck on a string to tighten and release. So, your stories brought me to some really nice remembrances of my own. Thanks so much for that! Amazing how much you can enjoy memories once roused.

That buried stuffed chicken tickled me to no end! Bad Dog!

As to my problem with the neighbors. It hasn't gone away and in fact, is a little worse now because they've decided to stop mowing the lawn in front of their house closest to our property -- you would need to scythe it now it's so tall.

However, maybe all of your stories and your support and your sarcasm, yes that too, has helped to make a decision. I've decided that you just can't have it all. I'm going to bite the bullet. I've had a long time of quiet and this is the new period of noise. At least in the winter, the windows are closed! It wouldn't kill me to try to be friendly and think of how nice it is that our neighborhood is diverse instead of how untidy the back yard is. (Although I cannot understand why they don't at least put their lawn mower away.) I guess I'm talking about a grin and bear it attitude. At least I'm not afraid of them..... (yet!) I felt so sorry for seeyouatmidnight when she relayed her tough situation. But she displayed a very good attitude, and she is positive. If she can have one, I can do it too. Everytime it gets noisy over there, I should go for a long walk. I could stand to lose a little weight!!!!!

I think the idea of sharing my tomatoes is a good one. If you don't like home grown tomatoes you're simply not human. That might go a long way towards softening my heart towards my neighbors..... You gotta like who you give your precious tomatoes to!

This web site is a truly amazing place. I feel like I can just about say anything here (within reason) and get some serious comments. The people who took the time to respond are all wonderful. Sheez, aren't we lucky to have this resource! It's funny but I think just airing this problem of mine and hearing all the possible solutions helped! It helped to hear that just about everyone has some sort of problem with their neighbor, or their's neighbor's dog, yadda yadda. I guess I don't feel as sorry for myself anymore. Thanks so much for pointing this out to me. I recognized lots of monikers of the responders and appreciate the sound wisdom that I got to experience. This does kinda feel like my home and you guys are all my neighbors. This is where I come to get my attitude adjusted. Kinda like happy hour without the two-for-one beverage specials.

Thanks so much for writing and for trying to understand!
Debra

Best of luck to you!

:)
Dee

Debra, that's such a positive attitude. Good for you! I'm sure they'll test you a few times but hang in there... it's got to be better for your blood pressure too. *G*

I have to admit that I've thought about your dilemma many times over the past few weeks, when my own neighbors drove me crazy. So, sharing your tribulations didn't just help you, it helped me too, and probably plenty of others. Best of luck, Debra!

Debra,
What a great idea! Share those tomatoes! As you said, if they don't appreciate that, they're simply not human. And if it turns out that your neighbors are NOT human, come back and let us know. I, at least, have some ideas for you in that case. ;)

So glad posting your dilemma worked out to be beneficial for you. You certainly have risen to the challenge and that's refreshing. Hope you will let us know how everything is working out. Wouldn't it be great if something really good came of it?

:-)

Won't you be my neighbor?