Jay, thanks for posting your list. Only a die-hard tomato grower would plant 8 more tomatos to make an even 100, LOL!

I don't think I am growing any off your list, unless my tiny Black Cherry makes it for a fall planting. I finally decided to pot up the seedlings I have that just refuse to grow yesterday. That includes Black Cherry, Baker Family Heirloom, Lime Green Salad, Victorian Dwarf, and Jelly Bean red. They all had nice roots on them, just very little top growth, so we'll see. Never say never.

I would like to know your opinion on Carbon. I've been reading a bit about it and all are good reports. What is the DTM on it, if you know. If not, I can look it up on the net.

Other than those, I have Rutgers, Jet Star, and Super Sweet 100 already taken off and about to harvest the Jet star and Rutgers.

Susan

Jay,

Wonderful list as always and I'm glad they're in the ground. Now, if only the weather will give you a break.

I've got 16 of the same varieties you have plus a few others, and now I've forgotton how many I planted, but about the same number you planted. I'll try to drag myself outside to count them later.

The heat is on....as you know....and I have no idea what it will do to fruitset, but I've had great fruitset so far and have harvested a few pounds of tomatoes from both the container-grown early plants and the ones in the ground. We've been in the mid-90s but the nights are dipping down to between 69 and 71 or 72 so there's a chance I'm getting fruitset during the cool early morning hours. This weekend we're due to hit 100 with heat index numbers around 105, which is downright depressing. I'm toying with the idea of buying shadecloth and shading at least one large bed of tomatoes....probably the one that has a triple row of 10-11 plants per row. I had figured I'd shade them before July arrived, but didn't think I'd be considering doing it the first week in June.

Susan, I'm not Jay but I've grown Carbon and like it fine. It has that excellent, rich flavor typical of black tomatoes. I'm sure he'll tell you his opinion of it when he sees your question.

Honestly, to me, all the blacks are pretty similar in flavor and performance whether you grow Black Krim or Black From Tula or Carbon or True Black Brandywine or any of the other well-known blacks. Carbon doesn't have the cracking shoulders that Black Krim can be prone to in heavy rainfall. Carbon's DTM is about 75-80 days but it seems closer to 70-72 days in my garden. I have found that many tomatoes mature more quickly here in our hot weather/intense temperatures than they do in cooler climates, so I take all those DTMs with a grain of salt since they're just estimates anyway.

Dawn

Awesome list Jay!

I am growing Carbon for the first time and have been watching it carefully because it had clusterers of blooms. I was suprised to see so many blooms at one time in one place.

I always feel like mine are so slow when I hear about all of you Zone 7 gardeners eating tomatoes, but then Jay's planting dates bring me back to reality. I have had one tiny Tess's Land Race currant. Does that count? LOL
My tomato plants are looking good and the 'shoot for' date in this area is a normal size ripe tomato by the 4th of July.

Susan,
No doubt I'm an addict. Not much hope for me now. LOL. My opinion of the blacks and darks are like Dawn's overall. Not a lot of difference in taste generally. The best tasting black I ever grew was last summer and not sure what it was. Long story but basically I had a tray that I used some new seed starting mix in and the whole tray got stunted. I potted up part of the tray late. Some came out and got to looking good but it was late June. I had two plants that somehow I forgot to write a name on. The plants looked nice and I didn't want to dump them. So stuck one in a container and the other in the horseradish bed. Thinking they would never make. They produced for about 3 weeks before frost and were the same variety for sure. I brought some to work. I sliced some on a plate when I grilled hamburgers along with some others. Coworkers went through the plate searching for them. I wish now I had saved seed from them. I didn't at the time as I usually don't save seed from plants I'm unsure about. I thought I could look at the blacks I had planted in that tray and tell what it was. I narrowed it down to 4 varieties. All of which I had never grown before. Vorlon and Purple Brandy were two of the possibilities. I lost the other two in my fiasco a month of so ago. So may have to grow them out next year. It was one of the few blacks I have ever grown that had such a distinctive taste. What I like about Carbon, Black from Tula, Amazon Chocolate and some of the others is they tend to tolerate the heat and wind and produce well here. I also agree with the DTM Dawn gave. Around 70-75 days from my experience. I meant to grow more small to medium sized reds this year. Ended up heavier on the beefsteak types than I planned.

I'm growing at least two varieties this year with wrong leaf types. I usually don't do that. Both were among my most vigorous plants. So couldn't toss them.

I see I have Bonnies Original in the op's. Should of been in the hybrids if memory serves me right. It is my favorite of the varieties Bonnies offers here. Has always produced for me.

Dawn yes I look at the extended forecast and makes me wonder what my season will be like. I do think if something doesn't happen I should have ripe full size tomatoes by the first week of July. If so an improvement over last year. I just received an email with pictures of the tornado Sunday afternoon 15 miles west of Elkhart. The storm hit my Sister's place 3 times. They didn't get the tornado but had high winds and 3 bouts of hail. We lucked out again. Everything in the garden looks great now. The sweet corn has a great dark green color. Better than last year. I changed a few things this year. So now not sure what I should credit it too or if it is just the year. Jay

Jay,

Tim and I were watching the radar and wondering how close that storm would come to you. I laughingly told him that the tornado would miss you because rain is not allowed to fall at your place 9 months out of 12. I even told him at one point that I thought maybe your sister was "getting it". (That's a safe statement to make since rain in that area seems to miss your place and hit hers.) I didn't realize it hit her three times. Hail is bad, but at least it wasn't a tornado roaring overhead.

Our forecast high for today is 95. Tim and I came inside at lunchtime and I felt almost ill from the heat...or maybe I just felt ill from hand-picking Colorado Potato Beetles off my plants for far too long. Anyway, our Mesonet station was showing 88 and I knew I felt hotter than that, so I checked the thermometer on the porch and it said 93 degrees at about 10 after noon. When it gets that hot that early in the day, I feel like my garden time ends almost before it begins. I am just really hating this weather.

Usually, May is almost perfect and early June only slightly less perfect...and then mid-June arrives and ruins everything with the horrid heat. So, I feel cheated out of a month of almost-perfect weather because it got too hot too soon.

We were supposed to be 89 degrees tomorrow, but then they upped the forecast today to 93. Apparently the cold front will only drop us a couple of degrees.

Why in the world does it seem like the spring weather is shorter every year?

Dawn

I thought we had a really nice spring, Dawn. Was I asleep? That is likely for me you know :)

Thanks for the info, Jay. I think I may add Carbon to my list for next year. I have about decided to just take cuttings of the few I have for this year since it may be too hard to get plants. Altho I haven't ruled out a trip to the OSU Farmer's market in a couple of weeks. Sunrise Farms has a booth there and I might find one or two to add to the fall planting. They may have Cherokee Purple and Sungold after reading their list.

I hope to have a better grip in late fall for 5 or 6 varieties to grow next year.

Susan

Susan,

Maybe you had a nice spring? Parts or ours were nice, but overall it was much too short. Remember that my weather in southcentral OK more closely resembles the weather in Dallas than the weather in OKC.

In southern OK, we had snow on the first day of spring. Our last frost at our house was April 27th. Yes, I covered up everything and it survived, but I shouldn't have to cover up plants the last week in April when my so-called 'average last frost date' is March 27th. Our last good rainfall was May 13th or 14th and we are very dry here, with the big pond down to about 1/5th its usual spring size. It normally dries up in late August but at the current rate it will dry up next week if significant rainfall doesn't occur.

The temperatures in late May were more like temperatures from late June or early July and at our house, the temps keep going 3 to 5 degrees higher than those at the Mesonet station, so that's driving me nuts too. So, my spring weather really lasted from about April 27th to May 27th....and that's too short! I know our local weather forecaster said that here in southcentral Oklahoma, our May was the tenth hottest on record.

June isn't looking like it is starting out any better. On top of all the high temps and low rainfall, the usual summer garden pests (blister beetles, spider mites, squash bugs and tons of grasshoppers) arrived in May as soon as the rain stopped, so we have had to deal with large numbers of them about 6 weeks earlier than usual. On the bright side, cool-season pests like flea beetles and cutworms weren't much of a problem here at all because we got hot so early.

If I am going to start tomato seed for fall, I'd better get with it and start some....but I am totally unmotivated to do anything outdoors when it is so roasting hot. I bet you'll find some good fall tomato plants at the Farmer's Market in late June or in July. If I don't start seed, I'll take cuttings from spring plants about the 3rd week in June and root some fall tomatoes that way.

I counted my tomato plants yesterday that actually ended up planted/growing and I ended up with 118 plants in the ground or in containers. I put far fewer in containers than last year...a mere handful....because I was expecting drought and didn't want to have a lot of containers that demanded to be watered 2 or 3 times a day.

So, here's my list:

*Tumbling Tom Yellow (containers) 6
*Tumbling Tom Red (containers) 3
*Husky Red Cherry (containers) 2
Better Boy (containers) 2
Better Bush (containers) 2
Pink Brandymaster 2
*SunGold 5
*ldi 1
*Golden Sweet Grape 2
*Sun Cherry FT 3
*Tess's Land Race Currant 2
Brandy Boy 1
Dora 3
Mountain Fresh Plus 1
Mountain Pride 1
Mountain Glory 1
Window Box Roma 1
Mr. Bruno 2
Berkeley Tie Dye 1
Fabulous 2
Brandymaster Red 1
Brandymaster Yellow 1
Nebraska Wedding 3
#Rutgers Select 7
#Santa Clara Canner 3
Lemon Boy 1
#Heinz 1439 2
#Heidi 4
Scarlet Red 2
Red Defender 3
*Sweet Million 2
*Yellow Jelly Bean 2
*Tomatoberry 3
*Sweet Treats 2
*Black Cherry 2
Gary O Sena 3
JD's Special C-Tex 2
Indian Stripe 2
Cherokee Purple 2
Black Brandywine 2
Black Krim 2
Dana's Dusky Rose 2
*Sprite 2
*Juliet 2
*Fargo 2
*Riesentraube 1
Mountain Princess 1
Valena Pink 1
Tennessee Britches 1
Tennessee Heirloom 1
Texas Star 1
#Mama Leone 2
Aunt Ruby's German Green 1
Supersonic 1
Baker Family Heirloom 1
Jet Star 1
Moreton 1
Dixie Golden Giant 2
Goldman's Italian American 1

I put an asterisk by all the ones that are bite-sized because those are mostly for dehydrating for tomatoes to eat during the off-season (I put up gallons of dried ones last year), although lots of them get eaten fresh off the vine in the garden too, and many find their way into salads.

I put a # symbol by those intended for canning, although I'll mix a lot of the slicing types in with those too to give me enough pounds for a full canning batch. It takes from 25 to about 28 lbs. of tomatoes per batch depending on which canning recipe I'm using, and one batch cooks down to only a few quarts of canned tomatoes or sauce or salsa.

The unmarked ones are multipurpose--fresh eating and canning.

I grow a huge number of bite-sized types for dehydrating, but they're also my insurance policy that we'll have tomatoes all summer and fall no matter what the heat does. It can be 110 degrees outside and the bite-sized ones keep producing. I believe this afternoon I'll put the first batch of bite-sized toms into the dehydrator.

Dawn

Dawn,
An impressive list. Several on you list I have grown but not growing this year. A few of them were among the causalities of my fiasco. Will be interested in your results. Most are ones I've had success with. Goldman's Italian American is one that didn't do well for me last year. I will be interested to see how it does for you. Might need to give it another try. Jay

Jay,

Well, I have you to thank for many of those (THANK YOU!) because you sent me the seed. Goldman's Italian American was a very vigorous grower early on, but has slowed down in the heat. I'll tell you the new (to me) plants that have been most impressive in their growth so far, and I doubt you'll be surprised because with several of them, their reputation precedes them: Dora, JD's Special C-Tex, Gary O' Senna, Dana's Dusky Rose, Texas Star, Golden Cherokee and Dixie Golden Giant. They all are very strong, vigorous plants that flowered and fruited early. The Brandymaster series also have been good growers. I have a couple of fruit on JD's Special C-Tex and Gary O Sena that seem to have reached their mature size...now I just have to wait for color to break, and I can hardly wait to try them.

I had other varieties, but they were in that flat that jumped off the table and landed upside down on the concrete garage floor......they'll get a chance again next year if I can remember what they were.

I grew Tumbling Tom Red and Tumbling Tom Yellow more as a novelty for hanging baskets and containers in Maddie's Peter Rabbit Garden, but they are amazingly prolific and don't taste bad at all, and they produced ripe fruit very, very early. I still consider them a novelty but unlike some novelty tomatoes at least they are worth growing.

Dawn

Hmmm, My garden matches about 12 of Dawn's and about a dozen of Jay's. You would think we had a club here or something. LOL

The tomatos are not liking this heat at all, for sure. When I came home this morning, they look okay, as far as watering needs, branches upright, no drooping, but not sure I should wait til they are drooping to water, and sometimes they droop in the afternoon due to the heat, not necessarily because they need water. So, I am going to go with the "stick your finger" in the pot method rather than appearance.

My plan is to put the Jet Star in a larger container today, unless you think that is a poor idea right now with the heat stressors. But, it really does need more room.

Rutgers, I believe, will be okay in the 5 gal. It is not showing as much need for bigger containment. It is a determinate, though, unlike Jet Star. It has, in fact, stopped blooming, though, as I assume is the normal course of events with a determinate. If I take a cutting of it, will the new plant produce tomatos eventually when conditions improve, no matter what time of year, Jay or Dawn or anyone else? Or, should I not include Rutgers in my fall planting?

Going to get the SuperSweet 100 potted up today as well as Lime Green Salad and Victorian Dwarf. They've all outgrown the containers I put them in last week, but they were small containers, around 6".

For all of you, I am really enjoying growing tomatos this year, because you are such a great help, and I want you to know how much I appreciate it.

Susan

Dawn, how big are the hanging baskets that you have the tumbling toms in? I was thinking of growing them next year. Thanks.

Susan,

Some drooping of tomatoes is normal in this excessive heat and the varieties that have the wilty gene will wilt even more than normal tomatoes which do not have the mutated gene or genes. When I see droopy tomatoes I check the soil by sticking my finger into it, and if the soil is dry, I water right then. With all plants, there is a certain wilt point that they reach where they've gone from being stressed to being practically dead, and if they are allowed to wilt beyond that point, they do not recover. When I talk about keeping tomato plants slightly dry to keep them producing better and to keep the fruits' flavor from being watered down, I always try to phrase it carefully so I make it clear I let them "almost wilt". I try to keep that "almost wilting" stage from going to the "wilting" stage since there's a wilt point of no return. I cannot really describe how you know when looking at a tomato plant that it is at that 'wilt point' of no return, but I know it when I see it.

I hope your Rutgers is the determinate one and not the indeterminate one. Sometimes they're not labeled correctly and the labels can be confusing. In my garden, the indeterminate one, Rutgers Select (which is the original Rutgers introduced in the 1920s) gets 6-8' tall and Rutgers VFA which is the determinate (or semi-indeterminate) one gets about 5' tall. Both are heavy producers.

Stacey, The Tumbling Toms are in 16" hanging baskets and their roots already completely fill the baskets. It kind of makes me wish I'd gone with 20 to 24" hanging baskets. Even with just the 16" basket, the plants are very heavy and it takes a strong support to hold them. I wasn't sure if I would have anything strong enough to support a larger basket. They are great producers and early producers.

Today I harvested 3 or 4 dozen Tumbling Tom yellow fruit and about 8 Tumbling Tom Red. I did notice when raising them from seed that the yellow ones were much more vigorous growers, even as seedlings, than the red ones, and that has remained true in terms of productivity. I don't know if the reds will catch up with the yellows or if the yellows are just genetically stronger.

Dawn

I think I'm finally finished unless I replace one or two. I added the following all in containers
Coastal Pride Orange
Magyar Piros Boker - Determinate
Prescott
Nichols
Roller Coaster
Amish Canner
Mystery Black
Another Salisaw Cafe'

Hit 97 here today. I waited till late to transplant the last ones. Now have some peppers to go hopefully tomorrow and will wind that up. Will get everything mulched which will help with watering. Jay

I almost waited too long to water some plants today. Glad I came home at noon today. I have 6 plants on the south side of my garage. I've noticed over the last few years this bed dries out faster than anything on my property. They weren't wilted last night and I just checked on plant and it felt fine. When I got home today 3 were wilted bad. I watered them some and then started the drip hose and deep watered them well. A few leaves will fall off but think the overall plants will be fine. Wasn't my intention to let them get that dry. There is one spot in that bed that I've really had trouble the last 2 years keeping watered enough. The soil there drains very well. I have it mulched very deep which I thought would help. Just a reminder to everyone to be checking their plants on a more frequent basis. Jay

Dawn, is it too late to repot your Tumbling Toms up to a 20-24" basket? As stated, I repotted my Jet Star up and hopefully, it will do okay. I know, thinking about repotting anything with as many tomatoes and as much garden as you have, is probably the last thing you want to do, but just a suggestion. You would probably suffer some damage to the plant in repotting it as well, e.g., tomatoes, stems, etc.

Out to the garden this morning....DD is in the hospital again due to asthma attack....so probably going there unless they release her this morning. Sometimes I wish the doc would just go ahead and deliver this baby. She is 38 weeks now.

Susan

Susan,

In this heat, I don't really want to repot. I think I'll just leave it where it is and see how it does. The plant itself is happy and the soil is holding water really well considering the heat, but the roots are incredibly vigorous! These were the slowest-growing of the Tumbling Toms and the last ones moved up from their cups to permanent homes. The first ones planted now spread out about two feet across in a lovely weeping form, but they're in pots or in the ground.

I hope Jess is OK. Maybe the doc will go ahead and decide she's been through enough and go ahead and deliver the baby if the baby seems ready. How much more can your DD endure? I wonder when in the world she last had a nice, comfortable night's sleep with no headaches, no asthma attacks, etc. She really has my sympathy!

Dawn

Thanks, Dawn, and believe me, I wish they would go ahead and deliver Miss Charlotte. They are keeping her until Monday to monitor how she responds to the different meds she they put her on - mostly steroids for her asthma. She's doing much, much better when I talked to her tonight.

I undid the bales of straw I had day b4 yesterday and they were holding a lot of moisture inside. I layed them out on the wood deck and am letting them dry out. Then I will mulch the toms with it hopefully tomorrow. I left a good amount of room in the top portion of the containers so I could apply a nice mulch for them. I should have moved the containers to a spot with some shade before I watered them, but did I think about at the time - no! Now I am shaking my head, what was I thinking.....not. I will learn from my mistakes.

Susan