Paula, Sorry you are having trouble. Last year I had peppers in pots that were too small for them and they were smaller than normal and not producing much. The last week of July, I finally made a place for them in the garden and transplanted. Of course, I could leave most of the root ball in place. At any rate, they took off quickly and I had LOTS of peppers in the Fall. I don't know what would happen if you had to remove the existing soil tho.

Hey Carol!!! But maybe you've given me another thought and option! What if I dug them up (by the BIG shovel-full) and put them over in the "big garden" where other early crops have been pulled? Thanks! I hadn't thought about that! And that would be more economical since I wouldn't have to buy more dirt.

I'm desperate!

Paula,
Sometimes desperate plants require desperate actions. I will add a few of my thoughts and opinions. I've moved volunteer tomatoes that had some size and have been successful. My concern is you think you may have nematodes. I know nothing about them. Have seen some posts but that was mainly a few years ago and can't remember much. You may already either know or have found answers to this concern. If they do have nematodes and soil disease and you move them to a new area are you going to infect it? If so I think I would consider the large containers. If not go ahead and try moving at least part of them. I would hate to see you create a problem for yourself in another bed.
What is the overall leaf color? Does it look good. You say dark at the base. I'm not sure what you mean. Any pictures might be helpful also. I might also consider giving them a dose of foliar feed. MG, Fertilome ect or scratching a good fertilizer like Tomato Tone in the soil around them.Hot peppers like the heat and should be growing. I've had some of the sweet varieties slow down in the extreme heat and then take off when it cooled down. Are they blooming and just falling off or not blooming. If forming blooms do they look normal? Jay

Jay - you've got a point there about moving the dirt from one spot to another. I had trouble with nematodes the first year (4 years ago). We've got sandy soil out here by Lake Thunderbird. We've HEAVILY amended the soil and last year saw no signs of them. The only reason I thought of them is because that garden area is on a bit of a slope and the peppers are at the higher end so I thought maybe the more amended soil has run-off to the lower end.

About the leaves - they turn dark right where the leaf meets the stem. All the new growth looks good as does some of the old. I went outside just now and I think my iPhone doesn't even like this heat. I could only get 2 pictures. Also if you just touch or bump one of the older leaves...they just fall off.

Don't know if the pics will help you but they're just flat NOT blooming at all. Considering all these were only about 6" tall when I planted them in May, I guess they have grown...but not near like what I was expecting. Seedmama is growing some of these very same Numex Sunrise peppers and she's harvesting! She only lives about 12 miles from me. What peppers I do have are really skinny too. The first few were more plump and uniform in shape. It's like they've just had the "life" sucked out of them.

Paula

Hi Paula,

Good Lawd A Mercy, Girl, take a nice deep breath and calm down and relax. I wish I were there with you right now. We'd go inside, pour a tall glass of tea or lemonade and then go back out to sit on your beautiful front or back deck admiring your plantings and then we'd be fanning ourselves, and we'd say "Bingo, here's the answer. It is too #&@# hot!" Honestly, Paula, that's all I think is wrong. It is just heat stress. Quick, where's the plant Gatorade? Then, being sensible southern ladies, we'd go back inside and make ourselves a mint julep or a margarita or something and try to figure out how to help your plants since they clearly cannot stand up, march back inside to the air conditioner and say to themselves "What was I thinking? I can't hang around outside in the heat all day long. I need relief!" So, we need to figure out how to get your plants relief.

First, let's talk about the heat. Surely you do not need me to tell you that the plants don't like it any more than we do. Since they cannot retreat indoors to the air conditioning for a nice cool drink, we need to figure out a way to cool them down. My suggestion would be to errect shade cloth over them. If the expense of shade cloth is not practical (and I understand that because it isn't cheap and it will take years of use to make it worth the money), use some other cloth that will give them partial shade. I found a nice roll of tan shadecloth (6' wide x 30' long) at Sam's a few weeks ago for a little less than $30 that was the perfect size to erect over a large tomato bed to give it some heat relief. We built a PVC frame to support it, but you could just put some extra tomato cages on the corners of the pepper row or pepper bed and use clothespins or zip ties to attach the shade cloth to them. In lieu of shade cloth, you could use sheer window curtain panels or sheets or tulle, but I like shade cloth because it is woven in such a way as to block a certain amount of sun, but not too much. My shadecloth is supposed to keep the area beneath it 15 degrees cooler, and 15 degrees cooler can make a BIG difference for plants in our current conditions.

Also, you know that you cannot compare your plant performance to anyone else's because everyone has different soil conditons, different wind exposure, different sunlight exposure. You and Seedmama may be only a few miles from one another, but that doesn't mean you have the same conditions in your garden. Heck, the growing conditions on the lower-lying, shadier, northern edge of my garden are quite different from the higher elevation, sunnier southern side of my garden. Plants are growing in the exact and precise conditions where THEY are, and that can differ a lot just within a few feet, much less a few miles. So, try to avoid comparing your plant performance to anyone else's because there's just so much variation even on one piece of property, much less at someone else's place 12 miles away.

Let's address the dark green leaves versus yellowing and dropping. The dark green tells me they have plenty of nitrogen, and you plants don't look overly hungry in the photos. To me, they look drought-stressed and maybe it is more heat-stress than moisture-stress but I cannot tell that by looking at a photo. Yellowing and dropping of leaves is a common reaction to ANY stress. (See my answer to Charlie in the linked thread about his pepper drop if you haven't already read it. Note too that at the end of that thread, Jay and I were expecting Charlie's question to be just the beginning of a bunch of similar questions in the coming days.) Why? Because it is so blankety-blankety-blank hot. That's why.

If you are keeping your soil evenly moist and not letting it swing back and forth from too wet to too dry, then you know it is not moisture stress. However, with no shade and no air conditioning, you can be sure it is heat stress.

Shading them will help. Keeping the soil moist will help. Mulching them will help. However, there's only one 'cure' for heat stress and that is for the heat to go away. How likely is that? Not likely at all.

Pepper plants cycle in and out of bloom in a hot year. While we may see almost constant bloom/fruit set/fruit development on pepper plants in a mild, rainy summer (like I had last year with those monster harvests), we don't see that in an excessively hot year, and especially in an excessively hot and humid summer like we have this year. Honestly, I cannot remember ever having such a horrible combination of heat and humidity in July. Usually July is so dry that the humidity isn't a factor in plant productivity to the extent it is this summer. With both peppers and tomatoes, I've found high humidity/high heat to have a much more adverse effect on plant growth and productivity than high heat alone does.

Since you cannot change the humdity, all you can do is baby your plants through it with even moisture, light feedings and shade. Then, pray for a break in the weather.

There is no doubt in my mind that if you will be patient and focus not on fruitset right now but just on plant survival, you'll get great fruitset in late Aug. or Sept.....whenever the temp/humidity break a little. I do think with shading of your plants, you might get that fruitset by August.

Would I dig up plants and move them in this heat? No, no, no, a thousand times no. I might try it in 80 degree weather, or maybe 85 degree weather, but not at the temps we have now. Furthermore, if there is any soilborne issue like nematodes, for example, you'd be transferring them with the plants so your plants wouldn't improve any and you might be transferring a problem like nematodes to a new bed.

If you had nematodes, I think your plants would look much worse than they do unless the nematodes have just now begun to attack the roots.

Do you add more organic matter to your soil every year? That is important because no matter how much you amend the soil in any given year, 'heat eats compost' so the soil amending never really ends. (Eventually you do get to a point that the decomposing of the mulch on top of the ground continually feeds the soil and you don't have to rototill amendments into the ground annually....just let the mulch feed it from the top down.)

I think your soil might verge on being almost too sandy for peppers and might need a lot more organic matter. I try to plant my peppers in the most humusy, composty bed I have.

I an a tiny bit worried about the fact that the hot peppers aren't flowering much. A healthy plant ought to flower, even if the high heat/high humidity later causes the blossoms to drop prior to fruitset. If I were seeing that in my garden, I'd feed the plants in the evening with Green Light Super Bloom (12-55-6) and see if that made a difference. My two 'go to' fertilizers are liquid seaweed as a general plant tonic and pepper upper and Super Bloom on a seemingly healthy plant that just refuses to flower.

Really, though, I think the larger issue of high heat/high humidity are hurting the plants more than anything. Do you remember the cool, rainy spell a couple of weeks ago? I know I sure liked that weather and my plants did too. Now that the rain is long gone, the moisture in the soil is rapidly depleating and the high heat/high humidity are present 24/7, my plants don't look nearly as happy as they did 10-14 days ago.

Later on, after the growing season ends, you can evaluate your soil for signs of nematodes, which you know you'll see as galls and swellings on the roots. If you see that, a fall planting of elbon rye will help a lot, as will incorporating that elbon rye into the soil next year in late winter or early spring. If it were me, I might plant a combination of elbon rye and hairy vetch and rototill both into the soil next spring just to improve its health. I don't know that solarizing is really as helpful in the long term as growing elbon rye would be. The problem with solarizing (and this is my opinon and not a scientific fact) is that nematodes still exist in the adjacent soil to the bed you just solarized. So, it is likely that in the following season they'd move back in. Thus, I think elbon rye is a better long-term solution, and planting it may be something you need to do every fall.

With sandy soil that's prone to nematodes, it might be helpful to add beneficial nematodes to that garden at the right time in the spring prior to planting, but they're really expensive and they work best in moderate temps, so I'm not sure if they'd accomplish enough in the spring and think it likely the heat would prevent them from doing much in the summer. Usually the best solution for nematodes is to turn your very sandy soil into sandy loam soil and that's a never-ending process. Alternately, in that location with the soil you have, the ultimate answer for your pepper plants might be to grow them in large, self-watering containers filled with a high-quality soilless mix. I bet Ken could build you some using Raybo's Earthtainer instructions which often are discussed on the tomato forum, or I can post a link, or you could buy Earthboxes, which are a big investment, but worth the money, in my mind, if sandy soil prone to nematodes is the problem.

I also think you probably need to accept that your pepper harvest likely will be late this year and just stockpile those canning jars and such and expect to be doing your pepper canning in Sept. and Oct. instead of in August.

This summer's weather is the most challenging garden weather we've had in a very long time, and it reminds me that I often say I 'almost' prefer drought to all other forms of summer weather because in drought you can irrigate enough to get a crop, but in high humidity you cannot suck the excess moisture out of the air or soil.

If there's anything you mentioned that I failed to address, remind me of what it was.

A feeding with Epsom Salts should show results in 48 hours, so if you didn't see a change, then a lack of available magnesium likely wasn't the issue.

It's the heat, the heat, the heat and the awful humidity. Pray for better weather.

Dawn

Here is a link that might be useful: previous pepper thread

Dawn - I wish you were here with me too!!

We were out this morning unloading a refrigerator in this heat. Can you believe that? I thought I was going to vaporize before I could get back in the house! If I hadn't wanted an extra frig so bad I would have passed up the gift, but I've wanted one so bad for so long I just had to have it. Yes, it was a gift. A 1946 GE Refrigerating Machine! From all the research I've done, it's going to tack on about $9/month on to the electric bill, but that's okay by me. GW has a really cool Home Forum on Antique's that gave me a TON of info.

So this afternoon we're going Sams! I'll look for the cloth so thanks for the "heads up"! If not there, I'll check Lowe's or even the clearance tables at Hancocks. I'm sure I can find something that will shade them. Once they're shaded, I'll be able to tend to them easier also. I've got them mulched some but do I need to do more? It has rained here every 2 or 3 days until this week with the last rain Monday. I probably need to water the peppers again. The tomatoes in the same bed are still moist, but they are shaded more by the trees on the east side. Being this close to the lake, we usually have high humidity, but this year it's just plain AWEFUL.

We've heavily amended the soil in this bed every year, spring and fall, but I'm going to take your suggestion on the elbon rye for the fall. Now...ummm...where do I find it? LOL!

Between you and Jay, I've got several things to try so thank you both very, very much. Of course, the first line of defense is going to be some shading. Hope all this info helps the others too!

Paula

Paula,
The pictures tell enough I agree with Dawn. Like with tomatoes as long as you have new growth and it looks healthy you are ok usually. If you have blooms and they are healthy you are ok. The plants I yank are when I have no new growth, the plants show signs of something being wrong and the new blooms never opening. Of course there is exceptions to all of these. During the heat peppers and tomatoes both can abort blooms. And size I don't get too concerned about as long as there is good color. And then again color sometime can just mean the plant isn't taking up what it needs and can improve. I've had two notable examples this year. One plant had bad color and even the "dreaded purple" veins many say yank them when they see them. And the other had a pale yellow color. Both though had good blooms on them. So I just fed them a little extra. I used the Bonnies and the Fertilome along with one feeding of fish/ seaweed and both look fine now. Again I know how it is looking at the plants and wanting to see results. And without seeing them I can't fully judge them. I'm doing an experiment this year I won't say much about till the season is over. I decided to follow the practice of a few growers on other forums I trust. I will post what I have done and the results when the season is over. With the way yours look if me I would give them a little foliar feed boost and give them some time. Do you have much mulch down? Here in our heat I'm a big believer in it. If not deep I might increase it some. I'm adding more new straw mulch around mine now. And again I'm very careful about transferring soil. I know people who haul soil in and have created major issues. And that is why I'm careful about moving soil from someones garden to mine on say a plant. I do as I said move some volunteers around in my gardens. In this heat that is hard. I did move two tomato volunteers to a holes this week and both look good so far. I took a whole shovel full with them. And also shade them for a while. Also had five in a group. Dug them up and brought them up on the north side of the house and put them in potting mix in 18 ounce cups. They were wilting before I got them in the cups and in a tray. The first 2 days I set the cups in a tray and kept a little water in the bottom. Now they have rooted enough I have moved them out getting more sun each day. I will transplant them to holes I have vacant this week. More as an experiment than anything else. As Dawn says I would highly discourage anyone moving any plants now unless they feel they have too. These are plants where I'm going to put crops before long. And so either it was experiment with moving them or just hoe them under. If I had lost them no real loss. In the heat it is risky. And I don't always succeed. But through the years of experimenting have learned methods that benefit me when I need to move plants even early in the season.Just remember when moving a plant in any heat only do it if you are willing to lose it or you have absolutely no alternative. And that is why I'm not saying anything much about the new experiment I'm trying this summer. I would hate to be the cause of someone trying it and having poor results. I was willing to take that chance. Partly because I can be a gambler and the other reason is I have faith in my ability to notice problems and truly trust those who have used this method. Let us know in 4-6 weeks how they look. I haven't grown the NuMex Sunrise. But have grown some of it's relatives. I would say it is the humidity it doesn't like more than the actual heat. I read an article about that this spring. I think I told Dawn about. Where they have done some tests. The NM Chile types do better in a drier air although hot and many others especially sweet peppers do better in a more humid climate. I think back and I have seen this. Here we usually have low humidity. The last two years when we've had severe drought till late July-early August I had great NM chile seasons. Last year when the rains started in late July and the temps moderated is when my sweet peppers started really going to town. And I had some of the biggest I've ever grown in Sept and early October. This year we have had more humidity than normal and my NM chile types are growing slower than the last 2 years but still doing fine. Jay

Paula,

Well, I'm excited about the 'new' refrigerator even if y'all were out moving it on practically the hottest day of the year! ; The extra space it gives you for produce and for extra cold drinks (our extra fridge in the garage always has bottled water, Gatorade and Tim's beer in it, and sometimes wine coolers or bottled tea) makes it a great investment. And, at holiday time, having the extra refrigerator space is such a godsend.

I love that the new fridge is older than you and I, too! They REALLY made things to last back then. My aunt had an old Kelvinator refrigerator from the 50s, I believe, in her home until just a few years ago. I loved that old vintage fridge and it broke my heart when I found out she didn't take it with her when she moved back to the country in her mid-80s after living in the city for about 60 years.

Good luck finding a shade source. I can't believe you're going out in this heat. I am hibernating inside like a bear in winter. It just kills me to walk to the mailbox and back in this heat. I'm definitely a hot/humid weather wimp.

You can usually find seed of elbon rye and hairy vetch at a farm type store. Some nurseries carry them in smaller amounts for home gardeners. You might ask at the nearest farm store and nursery near your home, or somewhere that's convenient for you to stop by commuting to or from work, and see if they'll have elbon rye and/or hairy vetch in the fall. If they don't usually carry it, maybe they can order it for you. Or, you can order smallish amounts from somewhere like Peaceful Valley Farm Supply online, but shipping might be annoyingly high for as much seed as you'd need.

Jay, I have grown NuMex Sunrise and Sunset and other NuMexes here and they perform best for me in drought years. So, I generally only plant them if I expect drought.

My hot peppers have slowed down the last two weeks. They had a lot of blooms in the cool, rainy weather but have set and stalled since then in the amazingly high humidity we've had. (We've even had FOG on a morning here and there, and I don't ever remember having fog in late June or early July here.) I'm inclined to think the hots don't like the humidity, and we know the sweets don't like the heat, so except for the fact that the plants are still ripening fruit that set many weeks ago, I feel like my plants are in a major stall and I just have to wait it out.

Our weather forecasters tell us not to expect any break, including rain here, before the end of the month. If that isn't the most discouraging forecast ever, I don't know what is. Of course, there's at least a 50% chance they're wrong, I hope.

Dawn

Dawn,
It is 98 here now and 25% humidity. I'm sure yours is a lot higher. And I think this is bad. As you know I set my peppers out late. All were the same size basically. Overall the hot peppers have doubled the sweet peppers. The hot peppers are blooming well. I don't expect a bunch of fruit set during the heat. Although if the humidity will drop just a little I usually see some on the NM types. My sweets overall are not growing. Have 1-2 that have continued to grow well. Need to check and see what they are.

At least 2 sources are saying a chance of a break starting the end of next week. Mid to lower 90's. Till then upper 90's and 100's. My big tomato plants show some wilt in the heat but then look ok by 9-10. I haven't watered them as they seem to be wet. Just grew so much during the cool period having a tough time getting enough water to the leaves. I had to work outside on a engine yesterday around noon and had a hard time getting enough water to my branches. With that had better go back outside with my iced tea and carry the rest of the onions up to the carport. Jay

My salsa has been using up the jalapeno, but the sweet peppers were about to get ahead of me. I just cleaned and diced all that I had in the house and I almost filled a gallon bag. I think I have everything pretty well caught up now and I can take the day off tomorrow. I have a few tomatoes on the table, but they should be OK for a couple of days. I am glad to get a little break in the production, but it's a nice problem to have.

Well, we ventured into town and didn't find a darned thing at the Sam's in Norman. All they had was weed block fabric.

I scored much better at Lowes. They didn't have the recommended Green Light Super Bloom but MG makes one relatively close so I opted for it until I can get to a garden center. I also found shade cloth that was comparable in price to what you found, Dawn. 6' x 40' for $42. We have a frame that my Dad used to cover his boat and the cloth long since deteriorated. He gave it to us thinking we could at least use the poles. We're going to re-assemble it over the peppers, cover it with the shade cloth using the clips we use on the pool cover in the winter. I'm just hoping that the cover along with some TLC will give me enuf harvest to make up the cost of the cloth. Considering the prices I saw tonite on produce at Wally World, I think it's a safe bet! #1.79 for yellow squash???? REALLY??? sheesh!

Carol - glad you're caught up on your harvest! I'll be wishing I was in your shoes tomorrow! I'll be spending most of the day shelling purple hulls, blanching green beans, shredding zuch's and processing tomatoes in anticipation of peppers later for salsa! Oh...almost forgot. I'M NOW IN PLUM PURGATORY!! The wild ones are all ripening so for the second time in a week, I'll be freezing juice! Seedmama's been here once and is supposed to come help deliver me from all these soon. I'm secretly wishing that some of my neighbors would come help themselves to some too!

Jay - I'm amazed that you're suffering thru this heat too. We have close friends up in Woodward and they say it's a lot cooler there and not near the humidity. From what I've read, I agree with Dawn....it ain't gonna let up anytime soon. I appreciate your advice and honestly on moving the peppers. I'm not willing to loose any so they are staying PUT!

Thank you all so much for your advice and support! With "neighbors" like you, I just can't go wrong!

Paula

I finally got to eat my pork chop that Jay made me hungry for the other day. I had planned to grill them yesterday but we made a trip to Arkansas, and stopped at Golden Corral in Rogers to eat. Today I grilled those chops, along with four italian peppers, two small eggplant, and some slices of squash. Had planned on corn also, but forgot to put it on the grill.

I had to water today, which felt odd since I drove through such hard rain in Noel MO yesterday that I almost had to stop and wait for it to pass, but when we got home, we had received very little.

We have the TV weather on right now and they are announcing all of the heat index numbers that are still over 100 at 10 PM. Our airport is showing a temp of 90, humidity of 84 and heat index of 115 degrees. It is hot.

Jay, Our humidity starts out in the 80s or 90s most mornings and drops to the 40s in the afternoon, so our worst heat index numbers hit us between about noon and 3 or 4 p.m. and then drop pretty quickly after that. The heat index here is usually under 100 by 9 or 10 p.m. Tonight our heat index dropped like mad after sunset and now it is only in the upper 80s! That's nothing at all compared to Carol's.

We had humidity in the 20s and 30s in June when it wasn't raining here, and I liked the heat index a lot better then than what we have here now. Despite our high soil moisture, high temps and high heat index numbers, the pasture are drying out. Yesterday, about a dozen miles west of us, a baler caught fire in a hay field, and that had a pretty bad fire out there. When the firefighters arrived onscene, the pasture, bales of hay, baler and tractor all were on fire. Those poor firefighters were fighting that fire when the heat index was 108. I didn't think it was really quite dry enough here yet for the fields to catch fire, but apparently it is.

Carol, I have been alternating the harvest of sweets and hots pretty much, and it has been nice. Now they are both ready all at once, including the first few of the habaneros, so I'll get busy making pepper jellies this coming week. I also need to pick green beans early tomorrow before it gets too hot.

Paula, I hope the shade and bloom booster help your plants. That was a ridiculous price for squash. I guess I'd better show my squash plants a little more respect. I have noticed squash in the grocery stores is more expensive than last year.

Plum Purgatory is a nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there. Now that all my plums and peaches are processed, though, I kind of miss having fresh ones around. I guess I'll have to buy some at the Farmer's Market for fresh eating.

Carol, I've noticed we get hotter earlier than y'all, but then cool down earlier, too, about 6 days out of 7. Two nights ago our heat index was still in the 100s at 10 p.m., but tonight it is already down to 89.

Our forecast for tonight made me laugh...we're expecting an overnight low around 75, although it won't drop down to that temp. until just before sunrise, and our chance of rain is 1%. One percent? That just sounds silly. Why not just say 0% because you know it isn't going to rain here tonight!

Tomorrow is supposed to be our hottest day of the year so far. Oh, good, we needed something to look forward to. I'm going to start counting the days until fall arrives. It seems so far away.

Dawn

Paula we hit 98 again today. So maybe a little cooler than you. They keep saying 100's and did yesterday and today. And both hit 98. Of course that is too hot. Sure it will hit the 100 mark soon. Too soon for me Possibly 94 by next weekend. Then maybe a little bit of a yo yo for a few days. Of course that can change and every day could be 100. Our humidity is low compared to Dawn and Carol just high for us. Usually this time of year by mid afternoon our humidity is 10-14% and I've seen it single digits. So 25% in mid afternoon is hot to us. We are ending where I've seen us start in previous years. And sure that will hurt the pollination on the plants. Especially the peppers and tomatoes. The hot peppers are loving it. And the Sweet Italian Bullhorns are also. Not sure I've ever had a sweet pepper perform in the heat like they have so far. If all goes well will be saving seed for the little elf's to deliver. I think after a few more hot days that the plants will get adjusted and at least hold up a little better. May try to lay my shade cloth over the top of the cages tomorrow to see if that will help. Just want to get through this with my plants and the fruit set I have on now. Letting the plants get a little drier. Hoping this will encourage the roots to go down. My cherry bed by the garage is taking this heat spell good. And it struggled in June. Think they have finally rooted down some. Now if some of the others will also. We got the half inch about 4 days ago. So it is gone now. Hopefully rain and cooler temps are on order soon. Paula I know it might seem odd I don't recommend moving plants in the heat and then do so myself. I hope you understand why I do. I just want anyone to be aware of the dangers involved. I have been successful many times. I have also failed.

Carol tomorrow evening I'm taking onions, squash and sweet corn out to my sisters. And they might fix steaks and homemade ice cream. MMMM. If only I had one of your Royal Hillbilly tomatoes.MMMMM. But hopefully by this time next week I'll be getting some more slicers. I ate several Juane Flammee's today. Still one of my favorites. Have some more cherries to pick in the morning. By next week I may be getting all I can eat in a day. Jay