There is no easy way to deal with the weeds and it sounds like that is what you are looking for. You need to till the soil with some sweat effort and diligently remove the weeds that come up sooner than later when they are small. As it is, you have new ones left that will drop more seed for next year. It takes more than one season of diligence to rid a new area of weeds. If you keep pulling and tending it, you will finally get rid of them but there are a lot of seeds obviously and it will take some physical effort.

You are trying to ask too much of the mulch. There is no "magic" mulch out there that will solve this problem. A good thick layer of organic mulch will keep the soil moist and cooler but its not going to do what you are asking it to do. I wouldn't worry much about acid in pine bark unless you are planting something that specifically demands alkali conditions.

Seeds will drop in the gravel and grow into the cloth and weeds will sprout anywhere they can find a place to slip through fro underneath. I don't think the cloth is not doing its job necessarily as there is no cloth that will prevent weeds as it sounds like you expected. I don't like cloth because it makes a mess and you have to rip through it when you try to alter the area such as a vegetable garden or perennial garden. I would only use it for something you were wanting to keep unplanted, were never planning to dig in, such as a path with deep gravel over it. I think its gimmicky and just another item sold to tell people they don't have to make any effort.

What I'm doing is an almost exclusively perennial garden. Some of the shrubs and trees are big and will never be moved, or others, like the peonies, that don't like to be moved

Unfortunately I have neither the strength nor the health to get out there and till the thing up, and I don't want to get in around the roots of all the things that are already established. I don't have anyone on hand to do the work for me either.

Once again it's a case of me bringing my west coast gardening mentality into OK and expecting things to behave the same way they did out there, or even close to it. They don't.

I don't even mind so much the seeds that sprout on top of the weed cloth and are easy to pull out again. It's the ones that drill right on through it and send roots to China that are making me crazy. The grasses are obviously the worst. I just want something that looks halfway tidy and doesn't break my back in trying to maintain it. I'm limited in the amount of work I can still do, and I took on the development of a very large flower garden space. If I can ever actually get it finished, it will have a cottage garden feel but with a bunch of native stuff mixed in with the other perennials. In theory, I'll have possibly less need of mulch as it thickens up. Maybe. Or maybe not, with the vigor of the weeds and grasses around here.

Next year I'll be incorporating a lot more of the natives, and several that you are growing and suggested. I need to figure out their requirements also, so I don't end up over-watering them or keeping the soil too cool for them to be really happy. Lots and lots of decisions to be made before I begin the work.
This time I might actually break down and plan it out before planting. I may even be forced to get out the drafting paper and draw out a design. Yikes!

Pat

It doesn't change the situation however. You need to work on your soil, it sounds like. Digging is the only way. No amount of mulch is going to solve this problem. I would guess you have impacted soil in need of organic matter to loosen it up making it suitable for the plants you want there.

I cannot believe that even in California, these basic garden principles do not apply. Perhaps you were in a spot that already had good soil that had been amended and worked (it usually takes some time) and assume the whole state was like that? I don't really know. Its not a California vs Oklahoma kind of thing. Its just basic garden practices.

Good soil in any state (including Oklahoma and California) is composed of sand, silt and clay. This obviously varies from one area to the next, and even varies from one region to another in any state, but unless this is what you have, you will simply have to deal with it.

I'm sorry, you stated that you intended to try to turn an area into a flower bed. I am a bit confused but then you seem to jump from one thing to the next so its hard to tell sometimes. If this is the case, you need to work on the soil and that will most likely include eliminating weeds and digging. I would advise digging in a lot of vegetable matter and then worrying about what kind of mulch to get.

It is a spectacularly bad idea to mix plants needing moisture with those needing arid conditions, by the way. Separate your areas and save yourself a lot of grief with good planning.

The area where I'm working was just a big weed patch when I started it 6 years ago. But, it also has the best soil on the property. Light and friable with good drainage. It goes down about 12" before it runs into the native soil that's on the rest of the place. When I found out just how good it is, that's what made the decision to convert it into a flower bed . . . not to mention that it was so ugly the way it was, and there's so very much of it to have to look at every day. I've been digging and weeding it for all that time; six years, and it is coming together as a flower bed. I'm well aware that the optimum thing to do would be to till it up and really work it. However, it simply is not possible at this stage of the game. It wasn't possible to begin with, and it certainly is not possible now. I can do small areas at a time, where I'm not getting in too close to established materials, and that's the best I can manage. By 'small' areas, I mean a 6' or 8' square is the most I'll be able to do at one time. The whole flower bed measures 1,800 sq ft. You begin to see the scope of the problem? I just want it to be the best it can be with what I have to work with.
I'll be taking soil samples to OSU next week, to see exactly what it is composed of and what it may or may not need, but it's pretty darned good soil. Not at all like the rest of the property that tends to be clay or rocky or some other wretched combination of the two. I suspect that soil must have been brought into that area at one time, but I have no idea of when, or what it was, or anything else. That's what I hope to find out from OSU.

As for the drought tolerant natives and other materials, I have distinctly different areas in the same bed. Some are in really deep soil that's shaded by the oak trees, some are part sun, and some are in exceptionally fast-draining areas of full sun and poorer soil. I plan on siting the plants accordingly. I would never just mix them all in willy-nilly.

Pat

There is no such thing as "too cool" in summer for the natives. The only time I am aware of that you need to worry about soil temperature is when trying to get seeds to germinate. Keeping the soil cooler in summer is always a good idea and most experienced gardeners know that. It sounds like you think these plants need hot soil? Where did you get that idea? They also appreciate moist soil in summer as I already told you. They will survive drought but flourish in better conditions. I water my cactus regularly in summer for example. Its a matter of how often to water, good drainage (or sometimes sharp drainage) and avoiding too much winter moisture. I don't think you quite grasp it, going by your remarks. Plants requiring frequent watering shouldn't be planted along side those needing infrequent water, its poor planning. Thats all.

You seem defensive about the size of the area as if I do not understand your situation. Actually, I am not really needing to understand this one way or another and am not attacking you and I am sorry you feel overwhelmed. Still, it makes no difference in what I said about soil preparation, I am simply trying to address your specific question concerning mulch and weeds. Little area or big, its the same answer.

No, I understand about putting things with similar needs in adjacent areas. I've just never worked with these native plants or these growing conditions before and I've very unsure of their needs. All I can do is go by the description from someplace like HCG, or from your advice, and then learn as I go. I've had friends that grew cactus out in the Mojave with absolutely nothing around it but bare sand. They sprinkled them once in a while, is all. So when a plant description say "no water needed after it's established" it does make me wonder. What is little water, drought tolerant, or no water at all, particularly here where we normally get summer rains.

As to what the area really needs, the size of the garden is only a problem for me when it comes to doing it right. I have a whole lot of ribs that I broke in several places a few years ago and they not only have never knitted back together, but they never will. It's something I live with, but it puts a distinct damper on my energy and ability when it comes to strenuous gardening. I have to work with what I can actually do, and leave it at that.

Pat

Pat I would recommend you read some of Ruth Stouts books and articles. I don't follow her method totally but have incorporated some of it into my gardening practices. All I've done to the asparagus bed for at least 10 years is add some leaves and additives every fall with straw over the top. The worms do a good job of working the soil and keeping it loose. I have fairly deep sandy loam type soil which helps also. Good luck in your endeavor. Jay

Thanks, Jay. You know, that name rings a remote bell. Has she been writing for ever and ever? I think I may have read some of her books ages ago, if she's who I'm thinking of.
No-one ever commented on the fact that I turn the giant fishing earthworms loose in the garden if we have any left over. I guess that's okay? I can't just let them die, and I'd like to think they're doing a good job out there.

Pat

Jay, now I remember. It's no wonder her name was familiar. I owned a copy of her "No Work" gardening book for years. Think I got it in about 1973, right after it came out. I finally donated it to the library about 15 years ago. I wish I hadn't. I could stand to read it again, and a copy of the thing costs a fortune.
That book was where and how I first learned to mulch, courtesy of Ruth Stout.

Pat

I had the No Work Garden Book too for many years. I love her mulch method, except for the little problem I have here with thick mulch harboring copperheads and rattlesnakes.

I use chopped and shredded hay some years, grass clippings every year, and spoiled hay or straw when I can get it. My favorite is to mix grass clipps or straw or hay with chopped or shredded leaves.