Jay,

The whole issue of contaminated straw, hay, manure and compost has been around in the USA since about 2001 or 2002. Back then, the culprit was Grazon formulations containing picloram or clopyralid. In recent years, including the very widespread contamination in Great Britain a couple of years ago, the culprit was the chemically-similar aminopyralid. Most herbicide contamination of this type has been deemed accidental. It seems to me the OP in the link was the victim of out-and-out deceitful behavior on the part of their straw supplier. That is just disgusting.

The aminopyralid/clopyralid contamination issue will never go away unless the products are banned, which is unlikely. While big commercial compost and manure suppliers probably could be forced to test every batch for herbicide residue, the cost of the testing is beyond the reach of small hay, straw, compost or manure suppliers.

My personal solution has been to stop accepting 'free' straw or hay or manure from local ranchers unless I know for a fact they're 100% organic, and no one I know here is 100% organic. While free organic matter is wonderful to receive, it can end up being a very expensive 'freebie' if it contaminates your soil. All the ranchers here purchase hay or straw from many sources and most of them have no idea what it might have been sprayed with or if it might have been grown in soil contaminated by a previous regimen of spraying. One specific neighbor who has offered me all the manure I want for the garden in the past just piles up the manure out behind the barn and I've noticed nothing grows in that area any more which makes me wonder....

I used to 'import' a lot of hay, straw and manure from local ranchers, but now I just use grass clippings from our place only, or shredded leaves from our woodland, or purchased alfalfa hay (expensive!). I hate spending $10 for a bale of fresh alfalfa hay for mulch, but it is worth it in terms of peace of mind. The suspect herbicides obviously aren't sprayed on alfalfa since it is a legume and not a grass/grain.

Are you seeing symptoms in your garden that make you think you've had contaminated hay? When the aminopyralid issue occurred in Great Britain a couple of years ago, the plants are began dying simultaneously, although from what I remember reading, certain things like beans and tomatoes died more quickly than others.

The government could require commercial suppliers of hay, straw, manure and compost to test for herbicide residue, but it is my understanding that the testing is so expensive that the result would be that it would drive many small producers out of business if they were required to do it.

I'd love to see this class of herbicides banned, but that absolutely is not going to happen anytime soon, if ever.

Barbara Pleasant has written extensively about the contaminated compost issue. I've linked her website where you can page down a little way and read a little of what she's written. You also can Google something like Barbara Pleasant Contaminated Compost and read more of what she's written, especially in her writings for Mother Earth News. One of the articles Google will pull up from MEN tells how a home gardener can test their straw, hay, compost, or manure for herbicide contamination before adding those products to their garden.

Dawn

Here is a link that might be useful: Contaminated Compost Mentioned At This Website

For the past several years I have only been using grass clippings,and manure from my own property and cows. This year I began to include cardboard and paper feed sacks.

I don't trust any other sources these days.

Dawn or Jay what is your take on using shredded paper? I have used some shredded newspaper, but I am talking about shredded office paper. Are the inks potentially toxic? Somewhere it seems I read that most inks these days are soy based. I am not sure of this.

Bruce
Mustang, OK

well, i did't like hearin this. i did buy alfalfa this year but normally i get my hay from a woman that doesn't use poisons, and it is mainly weeds that she has turned into hay. so getting grass clippings from neighborhood may not be a good idea either. i hope to mulch a lot of leaves this fall, picking up leaf bags, so maybe next year i won't need so much mulch from other sources.

Bruce,

First, the inks you're referring to as soy-based are some newsprint inks, but I don't believe the inks and toners used in office machines are soy-based.

I have mixed feelings about using shredded office paper. Although the ink from inkjet cartridges supposedly is safe, you can't definitively say the same about the ink in copier toner cartridges or laser printer cartridges. The jury seems to be out on this one among the experts, with some saying that there is little risk and others saying don't do it.

I think it all comes down to how serious you are about being organic. Clearly, if you want to be 100% organic or as close to that as you can manage, you wouldn't want to use office paper because of petrochemicals and waxes used in some cartridge inks and toners. However, if you feel comfortable with the belief that such ingredients are a tiny percentage of what you're using and pose little risk, you should feel free to use them. I could argue it either way and feel like I could make a good argument.

I do not use shredded office paper in my vegetable, herb or flower gardens or in my compost pile, but I do add them to a 'permanent compost pile' that I do not remove compost from. This specific pile is on a badly eroded area, and I've just layered on the organic matter for 3 or 4 years now to rebuild that area and stop the erosion. It is unlikely I'll ever grow anything other than prairie grasses and forbs there (which are returning on their own as we halt the erosion and rebuild the soil), so I don't mind putting shredded office paper there.

Jessaka, If the woman you buy hay from raises all the hay herself, all you have to do is ask her if she uses any herbicide on the areas where the hay is raised. If she does, then the second question is wether she uses anything from the pyralid class like clopyralid or aminopyralid. If she doesn't, hay from her still should be safe.

I've never collected hay or grass clippings from unknown sources precisely because we have no idea what is used on them. For many years after moving here, we had rancher friends who gave us tons and tons of old hay regularly and I knew they didn't spray and I could use it. However, he passed away several years ago and she sold the ranch and moved away, so I lost my local source of clean, organic hay.

I don't know if anyone puts pyralid class herbicides in any sort of turfgrass herbicides. They generally are for agricultural use for the control of broadleaf plants in grassy pasture areas or hay fields.

Dawn

Dawn,
No I haven't seen any signs from the straw I've used. And he doesn't say what kind of straw. I've learned from reading the forums the term "straw" has different meaning to different people and in different regions. I had read some of the problems that has been posted before. But this made me stop and think about buying straw with the change of farming practices. What used to be safe might need to be checked closer now. I did quit using grass clippings from the rec dept as the new manager sprays and didn't bother to tell me when they did. I wasn't sure I saw any damage but don't to wait till I do. I will probably go ahead and use this bale of straw. I will mix it with the alfalfa I have. May stick with old alfalfa in the future. I'm going to pm the original poster and see what information he has. I know the straw I have wasn't sprayed and none of the listed pyralid class herbicides so hopefully it is ok. Assuming there isn't something new causing damage.

Here where I buy my alfalfa they don't spray for weeds so I feel safe using it. I use the loose hay that is left when I feed the bales.

I know I get to feeling safe with what I'm doing and need a reminder to stay on my toes and keep up to date on what I'm using on the garden. I'm getting more like Dawn. Using less every year from outside sources unless I feel real certain where it came from and what was used on it. I did buy a compost made in OK this year. Used it mainly in the containers. Jay

Did you know some areas spray their alfalfa fields for the alfalfa weevil if it is heavily infested?

I know some in Iowa do.

Yes some growers do spray for the weevil and some spray for weeds. None of the growers I buy from do yet. Doesn't mean they won't start. The best price for alfalfa is for horse hay. And many of them don't want any weeds. To achieve that they have to spray. Just like the sweet corn you buy in the store with no ear worms. There is a reason the hay is weed free and the ears worm free. So getting more important to find out all you can about the source and how it was grown. When buying straw from some sources I'm sure they many not know. And a reason you may see straw for 4 dollars a bale at one source and 8 at another. The only thing I will say about the chemicals they use here for the weeds they aren't in the pyralid class. And even if they aren't I wouldn't want to use any hay from the first cutting after they sprayed. Just a personal view. I don't mind a few weeds on occasion so just buy from growers who don't spray. Jay

Glenda,

I know they spray with pesticides, but my concern is not with pesticides but with the pyralid class of herbicides which have been shown to survive in manure, compost and straw/hay mulch for as long as three years. Since the herbicides that don't break down are for use on grains/grasses, they can't be sprayed on alfalfa and that means I can buy alfalfa hay for mulch and not worry that my garden will die.

The people who purchased mulch, compost or manure containing residues of the herbicides we're discussing lost most of their current vegetable garden at the time the contamination was discovered, and many have not been able to grow any broadleaf plants in their gardens for 2 to 3 to even 4 years afterwards. It takes a long time for the pyralids to break down and lose their effectiveness.

None of the hay or straw I buy for any purpose is organic (I'd buy organic if I could find it, but no one here sells organically-raised hay or straw), so I know any/all of them likely have been sprayed with various "cides", i.e. herbicides, pesticides or fungicides. As far as I know, it is only the pyralid class of herbicides that survive both the animal's intestinal tract and composting.

Here we are almost a decade since gardeners and market growers first found their gardens being destroyed by herbicide residues and it continues to happen over and over again. While it is frustrating for home gardeners, the folks who really suffer are those commercial growers who are Certified Organic or Certified Naturally Grown as it can cause them to lose their certification for a minimum of 3-4 years. I think that was the issue facing the OP in the thread Jay linked....their certification was at risk, although it did sound like their use of the herbicide-infested mulch was so limited that they might not lose their certification.

Jay, I agree about the first cutting. I usually wait for the second or third cutting. My favorite hay for mulch still is old hay that's sat around on a farm or ranch for a couple of years unused. I figure whatever was in that hay should be gone by the time I get my hands on it.

Fred once gave me 4 big round bales that were 3 or 4 years old and the only issue with them was that they were full of scorpions. Ken and Donna always had a barn full of hay for winter, and if they didn't use it all by spring, they'd give it to me when they cleaned out the hay barn to put up the bales from the first cutting. Once, they gave me about 45 square bales. I was in hog heaven and mulched, mulched, mulched. I always gave them back their 'hay' in the form of bags and bags of produce raised in the beds their hay mulched and fed via composted hay.

I have noticed that the ranchers who live in our specific part of the county aren't spraying as much as they used to. It varies, though, because if they are raising hay on-site for their own cattle, they're less likely to spray and if they're raising hay to sell, they are more likely to spray. In the western half of the county where there are many, many ranches of native prairie grasses, they mostly do controlled burns in late winter to burn off brush annually in lieu of spraying. The only issue with that is that in dry years, those fires get out of control and we sometimes end up with massive wildfires like we had in 2005-2006, the last half of 2007 amd 2008, and the winter of 2009. It is hard to know what is more risky for a rancher....spraying chemicals (expensive too) or doing the prescribed burns and risking an out-of-control fire.

One thing that amazes me is how beautifully the native rangeland regrows after a prescribed burn. It makes me want to burn our small pastures, but I never will because of the wildlife that lives in them and also the fact that our house and outbuildings sit right in the middle of them. If I had a lot of grassy acres, I'd sure do it though.

Dawn

Folks, this should be a real concern for all of us trying to keep our soils uncontaminated by dangerous residues of herbicides.
I have been wanting to buy some mushroom compost from an Oklahoma source, and feel relatively sure about it's safety...but anything else, such as hay or straw?? I too am very dubious and cautious. I think the last large round bale of hay I bought ushered in a large population of blister beetles...not that that's all bad considering the hopper invasion, but still, just goes to show, buyer beware.

Link below shows a test for "safe" compost, manure.

Barbara

Here is a link that might be useful: Mother Earth News/Test for Safe Compost & Manure

Barbara,

I'd test that mushroom compost before using it. In California, the herbicide residue was found in mushroom compost before it hit the retail market, but only because the retailer tested it before buying it and offering it to the general public. (The specific retailers had already had a pyralid contamination issue in their own organic vegetable garden and had learned to be cautious and test first.)

Also, if your own soil is high in salt, you might want to avoid mushroom composts as they generally are high in salt and also can be high in pesticide residue. I buy mushroom compost occasionally, but by occasionally I mean once ever 3 or 4 years and I'm not sure I'll ever buy it again. The last batch I bought wasn't good stuff. More and more I'm learning that buying and using anything like soil, compost, mulch, etc. seems to bring in more problems than it solves, and that is very frustrating.

Dawn

Dawn,
For the most part I have to agree, however, I don't have access to the large amount of fall leaves and grass clippings that some have, and I need to build up a couple of raised beds in need of more organic material in a hurry.

I've had good luck with J&M mushroom compost, (Miami, OK) back when I lived in the Grand Lake area, but that was quite some time ago. If it's still as good as it used to be, I would be delighted... and wouldn't hesitate to use it.

Still, I think it's best, as you suggest to test first,and/or call the farm and ask. They have an online website with a toll free number.

Thanks for the head's up :)

Barbara

I received a pm back from the original poster. He wasn't sure of the chemical but it was sprayed 2 years ago. I'm guessing something from the pyralid family to have that life span. He has samples sent off now of his soil ect. Lost about 25% of his plants. Will probably set back his organic certification some also.

Barb with all the new chemicals farmers are using now I just felt it was a good reminder of what can happen even though you think you are doing the right thing. Jay