Jay
That's a pretty good looking garden you have there, and what a lot of varieties! How in the world do you preserve all those tomatos? I like your cold frame too. I'm hoping to set up something similar for this winter to keep on growing.
The toms I planted mid-season are just now starting to bear too, so I'm hoping like you that we don't have an early freeze. The way it's been acting lately we could...but this being Oklahoma, you can never second guess the weather, as we all here know all too well.
Thanks for the pics, really enjoyed looking at them.
Maybe Dawn, our MG thinks we might be critical of her garden with too high expectations or something, but Dawn, if you read this, "just tain't so". We would love to see them.
And if I could figure out how to post some of mine, I'd do it, (and take my chances), lol!
Barbara

Barbara,
Thanks for the compliment. I'm happy with the garden overall. Been frustared with the tomatoes most of the season. And I got some of the garden in later than I should of. So that is why a lot of it is later. Overall the plepers have done well. Have a Senorita Jalapeno that it so loaded it fell over. I won't have any trouble getting rid of the maters if get to harvest them all. Will have plenty to can or make salsa out of. The Glick's 18 plant in the pictures looks like two plants. It is actually one with two main stems that fell opposite directions. Coveers and area at least 7-8 fto wide. Counted around 70 that I could see without pulling the foliage back. Heinz 1439 is the same way. What I like about both is they are all around tomatoes. Can be used to can or eat. The ones I have some real concerns with is the bigger types. I have good set now on many of them. A lot of them are small. If they don't really take off and grow or mature smaller they will never make it. And I didn't take pictures of all. So you didn't see everyone. Just a rperesentative sample.

Danw know I'm just kidding. She is a very busy lady. Just have to keep her on her toes and remind her several of us would like to see how a MG does it. And with her wild pets she has visiting I can understand why she hasn't posted pictures. Jay

Jay,

How do you find time to take photos? I am always so far behind in the weeding and the mulching and the watering....and the picking and the preserving....that I barely stop long enough to eat. How in the world do y'all have time to take and post photos?

I did tell my son on the day he posted photos of the wild cat in the trap that I needed some garden photos taken and posted and he said he'd do it. We'll see.

And I am not a master gardener! Just a woman with a garden. LOL

Jay, your garden looks huge compared to mine. Mine is very compact, with tiny pathways really meant for a smallish woman like me....bigger people don't like my itty bitty pathways! I cram in a lot of plants, although at the rate I am now pulling plants, there isn't going to be much to see if Chris doesn't take pictures very soon. The tomato plants I carried over from summer to fall are declining very quickly, and it is raining as I type this, so the rain may finish them off since Septoria Leaf Spot seems to flare up after every rain shower. At least the fall plants are starting to put on some good growth now that the heat has dropped.

Barbara, Y'all can see it, warts and all if DS gets busy with the camera and posts some one of these days. Now might be a good time....usually the camera is tied up with fire photos, but this has been our lightest summer (since June 1st), in terms of fires, in 5 or 6 or 7 years, so DH and DS cannot possibly have the camera full of fire photos right now.

Jay, The screen frame and cold frame look great. I have an old screen door and an old glass storm door in the garage, waiting for Tim to turn them into a screened frame and cold frame for me.

I AM busy, hee hee. I've put up 42 jars of peppers and salsa in various forms during the last week, as well as lots of frozen black-eyed peas, okra and tomatoes (both dehydrated bite-sized ones and cooked-down puree for winter cooking) in recent days.

I have a new strategy. I am going to start sending more of the peppers to work with DS. They love cooking their own dinners at the fire station...and always seem to have more time to do so on weekend days. I told him last night to talk to the guys today and find out if they wanted a big bag of jalapenos to cook with on Sunday. It he lets me know that they want some, I'll give him a big bag of jalapenos to take in on his next shift, which is Sunday. If I pick and send a lot of jalapenos, I might not have to can or dry any until the middle of next week....except for the ones I'm preserving today.

I will get some photos posted, but y'all are going to be disappointed. It is just a little garden, and not a very impressive one by this point. Most of the flowers are gone and the tomatoes are diseased and everything is tired. I know the feeling. I am almost tired of the garden myself.

We should have taken photos in June and July when it still looked great. The good news is that at least we found one camera. I have no idea where the other one is....bet it is rattling around in a fire truck.

Dawn

Wowee, Jay!

Hey, I really love those Kellogg's Breakfast tomatoes.

Wow, I'll bet you are praying for a late freeze. You still have a lot of "greenies" on those vines. Looks like you have a handy fertilizer factory too with the horses. I would love to be able to use straw as mulch, but it cost an arm and a leg up here.

Jay, I'd say you're a pretty good hand with managing a garden yourself, specially considering you work under some tough weather and soil elements there. You've done a remarkable job.

And Dawn, it's not HOW a garden looks. It's what makes it functional and productive, and that's YOU! That tough resistant clay must be feeling the "love", and responding to pump out all that lovely edible produce. Leaves most of us breathless....and a little tired just thinking about the amount of work that goes into it.
My own garden had to be started from scratch this year, but even with the sloppy wet and late start I got, it started taking shape and becoming more functional as well. It's not a "pretty girl" garden, but it looks more like what I call my "farmette"....a haystack of Bluestem, (not Bermuda), knee deep mulch in some places, a really great compost bin, a HUGE "starter" lasagna garden, with a drip irrigation system. And, although I made some mistakes, and had a few failures, I've expanded the growing area, and planted cover crops in several previously unused areas, to fill in later with other things like garlic and leeks, (soon), and making preparation to have a workable winter garden. I've been able to plant new varieties, and things I've never thought I could or have room for. How did I manage to do all this, even getting off the start line very late? It was because of the knowledge and help every one of y'all here, answering all my dumb questions, input on "know how", and "how to", that fired me up, and got me growing, controlling the previously uncontrollable pest and disease issues, plus the Big E, lots of friendly encouragement and for that I say thanks so very much! Y'all are so appreciated and real salt of the earth folks that makes me proud and glad to say I'm an Okie, and an Okie gardener, (even with LOTS OF room for improvement, lol!)

Barbara

Jay, I forgot to say how gorgeous and beautiful the plants look. Mine looked about that good in late June/early July but they do not look that good now.

Ilene, KB just won't grow for me and I've tried it several times. It either dies early on, or grows big and strong but won't bloom and set fruit. I think the most I've gotten off a KB is 3 or 4 or 5 tomatoes and no plant in my garden gets away with being so low in productivity, except Brandywine.

Carol, Sometimes you'll find old hay free on Freecycle or Craigs list when somebody has a bunch they just want to get rid of, and that's especially true after Halloween when people start putting away fall decorations and replacing them with Christmas decorations.

Barbara, And don't forget, he put in half his garden while hopping around on one foot!

I was out mulching a bed today and I looked around at the poor, tired little garden and tried to remember how good in looked in June before the spider mites, leaf-footed bugs, grasshoppers, etc. arrived. And, I have to emphasize, I'm the only one who looks at it now and thinks it is not up to par. Everyone else thinks it is gorgeous. I have impossibly high standards. : )

Honestly, as long as it is producing, I don't really care how it looks, as long as there are more garden plants in it than bermuda grass and Johnson Grass. (Our house is on Johnson Road and used to be part of the Johnson Farm, so at least it makes sense that we have Johnson Grass LOL.) That's one reason I have some really pitiful tomato plants still standing...because they are still producing, but I think I'll take out most of the rest of the spring plants in the next 4 or 5 days. The fall tomatoes are starting to get a decent size and the spring tomatoes have crossed over from sad to pitiful in appearance.

I always have a million projects in work too...there's always a new bed that's being lasagnaed or something. It keeps me out of trouble.

I learn so much here from everyone on this forum, too, and that's one reason I enjoy it so much. Sometimes Tim just shakes his head and says...."how do you know this stuff..." and I tell him I learn it on the forum.

Dawn

Dawn, I think I could find plenty of hay around but I don't want all of the seeds. Straw just seems like it would be so much better. I'm going to do some checking and see if I can find some for next year.

Thanks to everyone for the nice comments. Overall I'm pleased with the garden. Wish I had planted some of it earlier then I waited not knowing if or when it would rain. No excuses just one reason I put some of the veggies out later.
And the tomatoes are a lot better than last year but still not up to my average garden.

KB most years has set well for me. Seems to set better a little later in the season. Don't seem to matter when i plant it. The first two that set on it started blushing today. Have 20 or more that are set. Just hope most makes it.

Counted 22 on Brandyboy tonight. About average for it. Some of them should start turning anyday. Most of what I'm picking now are smaller ones. Some are on plants that the later fruit should be bigger but the first ones are smaller. I did pick my first Security Tuesday. It didn't have great taste but was a nice size and will be back due to it's productivity and disease resistance. I will try to take pictures as I pick the new ones and will post them for everyone to look at.

I have eliminated Cheethams for next year. It has set well but don't care for it's taste and the fact I have others that set better that are a little bigger and tastes better.

I took pictures every few weeks through the summer. Looked at them after I took the latest. My early big plants didn't grow up any in August. Out a little. The later plants are going bonkers.

Dawn the main garden is 60 x 60ft. The two new tomato areas are around 30 x 30 ft each. Then I scatter a few around here and there. Had ten containers this year. Thinking of increasing up to 20 maybe. Would like to put several in a high tunnel. I used to cram things in tight. Since I've went to mulching more have spread them out. Heard it would help cut down on disease but can't tell it has. I will say I haven't had the overall bug problem t his year like I normally do. I think the Garlic Barrier has helped.

Here most of the time I can find straw. Due to the drought a little harder. And usually free. I did find some large square bales weighing around 1300 lbs for $25.00 each. I may buy a couple as they will be easy to tear apart and use. Also going to need more than I planned as I plan to turn the garden over with a two bottom plow. I'm hoping this helps the disease problems some. And yes the free fertilizer is nice.

The reason I put the earlier picture of Marizol Korney in was it was yellow and had some purple veins and I considered pulling it. It has rebounded and looks great now. 20-25 fruit hanging on it. I know I can't always tell when to yank one and when to leave one.

I have one Senorita pepper that has fell over as it is so heavy with peppers. Bells haven't done as well as the hots. Expect that to change since the weather is cooling off.
Hope everyones fall gardens do good. Jay

Beautiful job!

I hope you all don't mind an Ozarkian posting here but this is my kind of forum.

Jay, that is a very impressive garden. I admire how it is all under mulch and no weeds. I start out with great intentions to get all mine mulched but somewhere along the way.....things happen and it doesn't get done. And...tomatoes with no disease! I have very few leaves left on my plants now....the sorriest in all my gardening years.

Love the cold frames. I have all the storm windows from a house and have plans to build a framed greenhouse and use them to cover it. I told DH we were starting it this fall!
I often just use bales of hay with an old window over the top for a cold frame.

Tip: About seeds from hay or straw, lay down wet papers first and the seeds won't break through. That might not work for you all who turn the mulch in each season. It takes about a year for the newspaper to break down.

Dawn, I would love to see your garden warts and all. If I didn't do so many flower beds, maybe mine would look better!

glenda from Missouri

Glanda,
I want to extend an welcome as I know many will do. I'm actually on the OK border in extreme SW KS and they made me feel part of the family from my first post. Haven't found a better gardening forum on the internet. Hope you stay around and post more often. And thanks for the comments.

My conditions here are heat, wind and severe drought the last two years.

I go to a lot of auctions and the cold frames are built from things I buy for a dollar or so. I think in the one with the windows I have less than ten dollars in it. The 2 x 12's were ones removed from the baseball bleachers at the ball field that was going to the landfill.

My intentions isn't too turn over every year. I am this year because of disease problems. So any that maybe in the straw will be turned under. Like most know on this forum I have battled disease all summer. And a wide variety of them. The reason most look good now is the ones I would usually leave I pulled as a precaution so disease wouldn't spread to my healthy plants. I have several I'm growing for the first time that I hope to get seeds from.

Glenda the Todebush Pink is an MO tomato. Hopefully I will get a few to taste and save seeds from. It is setting good now. I got it in late which could be part of the problem. Have you ever grown it?

Please post about your garden and your favorite tomatoes. I enjoy reading the results of others. Jay

Thank you so much, Jay for the warm welcome.

I have never grown the tomato. This year I was trying several new from a gardening friend...........they were all such a failure that I can't even begin to comment on them.

Last year, a favorite was Granny Cantrell; this year even it was a dud. I always plant red Brandywine. I once grew a yellow and red and tomato that was very late and not a heavy producer, but the best flavored tomato I have ever eaten. I lost the seeds and this year thought I found it in Big Rainbow! That turned out to be a solid yellow one. When I complained, they told me that it was as they described it. There were no red streaks in it all. So I will keep searching.

I also am looking to find a good eating early tomato other than Early Girl.

I grew Black Cherry this year and like it but the vine was humongous!

A tornado blew down our pole barn a few years ago so I have all the lumber I need to build the greenhouse frame. The 4x4's are all pressure treated (might be 6x6's) and lots of 2 inch dimension lumber. We tried to salvage all we could. Just need to apply ourselves to the project! The windows are all from the in-laws house. It will be tricky since there are many different sizes involved.

My garden is so 'end of season' right now pictures would be an embarrassment. I do have pumpkins, butternut squash, Long Island Cheese winter squash and a few moon and stars watermelons I am waiting on. Okra is still producing some.
The LI cheese squash is the biggest thing I have ever seen. It is about 25 feet in all directions.

I have sweet potatoes in but don't know yet if they will make anything. I think I have a potassium deficiency in the garden....can't grow radishes and now the turnips are looking very iffy. The potatoes could certainly be larger.

glenda

Great looking garden. Since I have basically the same growing conditions as you, your garden is of special interest to me. I think I have had more rain this summer than you have and less disease. I only have seven tomato plants and some watermelon, cantaolpe, honeydew and bell peppers this year but should have much more time this spring than past years so hope to expand next year. I did have a plague of hornworms like you did. I lost count at 40 some on my 7 plants. I am getting a good harvest and will make salsa tonight. We have eaten everything they have produced so far but they are getting ahead of us now.:)

One of the few advantages of living way out here in no man's land is that we do have a large supply of straw and fertilizer available at low or no cost. This is a great forum with much info about gardening plus added highlights of big cat hunting. By the way we had a mountain lion around our ranch 2 summers ago but haven't seen it the past 2 years. Maybe it moved your way Dawn.

panhandlejan - Yeh, but did you have a reproducing pair?

Just kidding. I think out your way it is even more likely.

I think all of this makes us all a little jumpy although we are not close to the problem. In addition, my neighbor has a little dog that runs at me. It barks until it gets a few feet from me then stops and snarls and growls. The owner tells me it doesn't bite, but I hear then yelling at them all of the time and franticly chasing them in one yard or another. Another neighbor was walking her dog and it started to get close to hers and she yelled, ran and picked it up, and told the neighbor, "they are not friendly", but she tried to tell me they wouldn't bite. Yesterday I harvested with a walking cane in my hand, and I don't need one to walk with. LOL I only have a few things left that are not behind my fence, so I guess I will carry a "weapon" until the squash stop producing. This morning I walked from the front of my house to the back fenced yard and just before I got to the gate, my own cat leaped off a wood pile and made me jump. If 3 little dogs that stay inside 99% of the time can make me that jumpy, then I can imagine what I would be like with a cougar. I know I would be armed with more than a cane.

We are getting light rain today for the third time this week and I have a bad case of powdery mildew on my cukes and it is now moving to some of the squash. I will try to treat it if it stops raining long enough. It may not help.

Glenda,

I'm going to try to get some photos taken to post, but our garden is suffering from the end-of-summer-and-looks-like-crap doldrums too.

I thought my DS would be my photographer and handle posting the photos like he did with the trapped wild cat photos earlier this week. Then, yesterday, he was injured at work (he's a firefighter) and came home early after a trip to the ER with is arm immobilized in a sling. They think he tore his rotator cuff (ow!) but won't know until they do an MRI. Right now he is on pain meds that make him pretty groggy and out of it. So, hopefully he'll mend quickly without surgery--I guess time will tell. It may be that in a couple of days he'll feel well enough to play photographer, and maybe by then some of the garden plants will have perked up a little. Until the middle of last week, we were still having days in the upper 90s and lower 100s, so the garden has, as so many people here say, "burnt up in the heat".

Jan, I don't know how you and Jay both garden in such dry conditions. I'm thinking that well-drained soil must make it easier. I have dense, thick, red clay and it needs 2-3" of moisture a week (which it does not get here) during the hottest part of the summer or it turnes into red concrete. Plants, apparently, do not like to grow in red concrete no matter how much compost you add to it. I love gardening in the spring and fall, but summer is so hard on the garden...and on the gardener too.

If you want your big cat back, come and get him or her! Yesterday the kitty cats and chickens all were extremely nervous and spent the day sitting and staring at the neighbor's woodland to our south. They all were staring at the same general location, so I think somehow they "knew" something was out there. I stood and stared endlessly at the same area and I never saw a thing. I wish the animals could tell me what they see/hear/smell so I'd know what was out there.

The deer came to check the compost pile for "goodies" at around 10 or 11 a.m., at 1 p.m. and at about 4 p.m. Those of you who know deer know how odd this is. The deer don't come out at night lately, but only in the middle of the day. On the plus side, one doe brought a new, tiny, still-spotted fawn. On the down side, all I had thrown on the compost pile was a big bowl of pepper seeds and stem ends that I removed before dehydrating a batch of jalapenos. Somehow, I doubt jalapenos seed were what the deer were hoping for.

Carol, I think all the big cats "should" be more out Jan and Jay's way and not here. : )

I remain very jumpy. It isn't too bad on still days when the woods are quiet. On a windy day, though, every rustling sound of the tall grass in the neighbor's pasture makes me jump out of my skin. Even worse is hearing cracking twigs in our woods, which are about 10-15' north of my veggie garden.

I am trying to get a grip and stay calm. Last night I tried again to 'hear' a coyote. I sat outside periodically from twilight on and did not hear a thing.

I remain cautious and armed with a weapon while out, but I am determined that fear will not control me.

I am hopeful that all the dove hunters out firing shots every morning will help push the big cats back out to the river bottom lands and farther from the houses.

Dawn

Glenda, welcome, I think you and I have visited before because I visit the Ozark Gardening forum from time to time. Y'all have some good conversations over there too!

I'm almost in Kansas, too, but in the eastern part of the state, not the western. I've been here a long time, and I feel very close to many of the folks who post here.

I might suggest "Striped German" tomato. It is red with yellow streaks inside. It is usually sorta "banded" on the outside, with the red part on the bottom and middle and the shoulders are yellow. It's been a good producer for me several years in a row and I like the flavor and appearance. It's funny though that some tomatoes do better for some people than they do for others and vice versa (or, as Aunt Viv used to say, "Vicey-Versey"). LOL!

I grew a couple of tomatoes this year that I will never grow again, because there is hardly any meat to them, and that is Costoluto Genovese and Purple Calabash. I don't have a lot of room and could've been more happy with something else in those spots. I always grow Kellogg's Breakfast, it's a yellow beefsteak, but the vines get huge and it succumbed to disease this year. They don't grow well for Dawn though and I think she prefers Nebraska Wedding, but Nebraska Wedding didn't produce well for me. Every year, I grow several of my favorites and then I try some new ones. George sent me some Baker Family Heirloom and they made nice tomatoes. I saved seed and will grow again next year. I also saved some seed from some tomatoes DS brought over on July 4 last year. They were so big and round. The tomatoes that I harvested from the plants I grew were wonderfully well filled out but they remained green for a long time, it seemed like. I wondered if this was a tomato bred specifically to hold up during shipping because of that. Since it was advertised as an "Arkansas Tomato" during the e.Coli incident, I thought maybe it would be a little more special than it turned out to be. I didn't care much for the flavor, either, but these are the things you learn as you go along.

Y'all in the panhandle are at a good place to buy your own wheat for grinding flour, should you ever want to do so. There's an organic farm over there in your area that grows it and that high-dollar organic beef. Or you can go north into KS and buy wheat at the mill in Marienthal.

Dawn, my garden looks like crapola too. But, for the most part, I'm tired of gardening and processing food and I'm ready to put the garden to bed whenever. Though I'm sure a couple of months into winter I'll miss it, and be griping about the cold.

Carol, I just hate those little yappy dogs. I was bitten on the ankle by one once. It's owner had said the same thing to me, "It won't bite!" A dog can be trained to heed commands. My dog likes to go to the fence and bark at passers-by, but when we say, "Sonny! No!" He turns immediately and sits down on the porch. He'll do ANYTHING for a piece of hotdog, which he doesn't always get, but often enough for him not to want to risk being disobedient.

Great pics. Seeing all the heirloom tomatoes on this site has made me realize what I've been missing. I have begun to experiment in a limited way and will do even more next year.
Hi, Glenda. We've "met" on the Ozarks forum too. I'm so far east in Ok--only 20 miles from Ark--that I visit both forums too. My conditions are much more like yours than like Dawn's or Jay's.

Today I am transplanting my fall brassicas. August is always slow in the garden for me as so much of the spring garden comes out in June and July. We usually spend Memorial Day putting up sugarsnap peas and broccoli, and 4th of July putting up corn and digging potatoes. (This year though the last planting of corn didn't come out until early August.) And sometime in there the green beans get pickled and frozen and the cabbage turned into sauerkraut and frozen. I didn't plant any southern peas this year so by August nothing was left in the garden except tomatoes, okra and a few peppers and a late planting of Cherokee Stripe Pole Beans from seed that George gave me. There should have been watermelons and squash, but the hail took care of them.
So three-fourths of the garden was bare under the clear plastic which didn't work nearly as well as I'd hoped killing annual grass seed. We left it on the area where broc and cabb came out in late June and it got really hot--we had 100s in June this year. Took it off mid Aug, tilled it and planted lettuce, spinach, beets and bokchoy and right away the grass sprouted "thick as the hair on a dog" as the saying goes. So will have to use the minitiller and don't like doing that while the earth worms are up.

We sure miss the tons of sawdust that we had access to at one time. When we had sawdust to cover our newspaper with we had much less problem with annual grass and weeds in the garden.

Anyway, today planted 30 broccoli--more Packman--30 Michili Chinese cabb, 18 cabbage and 18 collards that I bought, some mixed oriental greens, a 50 ft row of French Breakfast radishes--a lot I know, but we like them sauteed with the chinese cabbage or mixed greens--25 ft of Daikon winter radish and 25 ft of Winter Rose Radish.

And I have had to thin my mustard and turnips because I planted the seed at least 10 times as thick as it should have been so we've been eating it since it was 3 in tall and now it's 8 in tall.

And now the drizzly rain that we worked in all morning has stopped, the sun is out and my shirt is dry so it's back out to finish planting and weed some.

Happy gardening y'all and pray for a late freeze.

Glenda I have grown a few yellow/red bi-colors I have liked. Texas Star is one that did great and tasted real good two years ago. The one I planted this year was in the tray I tried the new seed starting mix and it was stunted. Has a couple on it now. Hopefully I will get a few. Lucky Cross is a favorite of mine for flavor but a poor producer. And know there are more that I can't think of right now. Gold Medal has done well but hasn't set one fruit all summer. Pineapple did well here two years ago and I haven't grown it since. I have my list of seeds posted on another thread. Yes the cold frames are nice. The one is just a screen door I used to hardening off. Worked great. I'm gone during the day so hard for me to harden off a few hours at a time. And this worked fine. I also pulled shade cloth over the other one and that worked. I have everything to build a green house or a high tunnel or possibly both this winter. If I go the high tunnel route I'm going to try containers in it for an earlier harvest.

Jan thanks for the comment and yes I think you had more rain than us at least till late July. And that would of helped. And sounds like you had less disease problems and possibly insect problem. Which surprises me but I'm glad you missed part of it. I think my problems are a combination of problems and causes and not just one or two. I'm guessing you grew more hybrids. And most of them have at least some disease resistance. With OP's/heirlooms you just about have to grow them to see what does well in your garden and climate. And I was wanting to try several new varieties this year so didn't grow many that have proved to do well in previous years. Many of them will be back next year along with a few that proved their mettle this year. Still waiting to make decisions on a few new ones. I will plant more hybrids next year also as they are more reliable. With that being said I lost both of my Goliath hybrids this year. The first time in probably ten years I had even lost one. Then the insect problems have hurt growers all over the TX Panhandle, eastern CO , OK Panhandle and SW KS that I have talked too. Glad they missed you to a large extent. And also think I over fertilized some. But then I have several nice plants left now. If they make it to frost I can't complain. The rest of the garden has done very well.

Mulberry my suggestion is too experiment in a limited way like you have been and as you find those that you like and that do well then try other new ones. I knew when I tried so many new ones at one time like I have the past 3 years I was going to have a drop in overall production but was willing to take the risk. Also think trying all those varieties from so many sources brought in some of my disease problems. Now I will cut back and try to grow those that do well along with a few new ones every year. And if you or anyone else sees anything on the list I have posted feel free to ask for a few seeds. I'm saving seeds of those I like. And have several acquired seeds.

Ilene where is the farm that grows the organic wheat? Marienthal is around 150 miles from us. I have never been to that mill. Had heard about it.

Yes I agree we live closer to what has been known as lion and lynx country. ON the fringes. But due to many reasons along with people possibly releasing raised and hybrid animals it is harder to determine who doesn't live in cat country.

Hope everyone has a great Labor Day weekend and a bountiful harvest this fall Jay

Jay,

I hope you have a wonderful Labor Day weekend too. I still cannot believe it suddenly is September, and the long, hot summer is almost over. We've been back in the 90s a couple of days this week, so it still feels more like autumn than summer.

I love Lucky Cross for flavor but not for production. I get better production from almost every other bicolor I've ever tried, including Pineapple, Black Pineapple, Hillbilly (Flame) and the one with German in the name. Is is Old German? There's other ones I haven't grown and can't comment on. Lucky Cross's flavor is so superior to the others, but its production is pretty low, so I stopped growing it.

I haven't had any wild cat encounters today, but Yellow Cat must have had one this evening. I was looking for him after dinner so I could bring him inside before dark. When I finally found him, he was sitting up on the roof of the house. It is a two-story house and getting up on the roof is not easy, so something must have really frightened him. He didn't come down until he was good and ready.

Dawn

Posted more pictures tonight. Gives an idea what some have done in the last week. Also a picture of my first Indian Stripe I cut up today. And consumed tonight. Was 9 ounces and around a 7.5 on the taste scale. Need to pick peppers tomorrow night. Will try to get some pictures and post them also. Picked my first Marizol Korney today also. So things are picking up. Keep watching as I will try to add pictures as things progress. Jay

Hi Jay,

Indian Stipe. Yum yum. One of our faves.

Have you tasted a Marizol Korney tomato before? If you have, does it taste different from Marizol Purple (if you've tasted Marizol Purple)?

I'm glad to see you are beginning to pick more and more fruit after a long, hot, challenging summer.

I have a bowlful of tomatoes on the counter that I picked tonight, but only one is really special--it is a Brandywine. The others are just Livingston's Gold Ball, Supersonic, Early Girl, Scarlet Red and Prime Time. These are end of the season and from declining plants, but they still have good flavor--they're just smaller than average.

Any day you can pick fresh produce from the garden is a very good day indeed.

Dawn

Dawn,
I have never grown Marizol Purple. What I know about Marizol Korney is it is a PL plant found by Korney in his Marizol Purples. He saved seed and it has grown true every year. My seed source was a SSE member and she said it is 3-7 ounces and a new favorite. I have been picking some a little early if they are exposed on account of the birds. But haven't had much trouble with them lately. Did see one mark that looks like a peck. But right now them and everything else is busy trying to extract the green seeds from the sunflower heads. It will be a few days till I slice and dice this one and save seeds. Will give a review of taste and maybe some ripe pictures then. As you can see in a few pictures still mostly green but some color showing. I think another week will make a big difference. The counter is starting to fill up with maters now. And a little more size to some now. Will start saving more seed from some also. So a good time of the season now. Some of the late ones are really setting. Read on another forum of frost in some places yesterday morning. Read the long range at a few places. Goes from about normal to cold. And little snow to above normal. Really too early to tell. Looks like the poor folks on the east coast may get it this winter to go along with their summer. Jay

Jay,

The one year I grew Marizol Purple it was only so-so for me, but it was an excessively wet spring and summer so none of the tomatoes did terribly well or had good flavor. I'm looking forward to hearing what you have to say about Marizol Korney.

I bet you're going to be having fun the next few weeks as all the greens color up! After all the work, it is nice that you're finally going to get to have some fun.

Frost? Oh, those poor people. I am so not ready to hear that word. If I was an east coast gardener, I'd be so disgusted by this point. Of course, as with any widespread problem, some people have been hit hard and others haven't, but you just have to feel for all the ones who've seen their gardens decimated by not just Late Blight but the excessively wet, cool and cloudy weather.

My sister-in-law raises tomatoes in Pennsylvania, and she's had good luck with her tomatoes this year. She's a casual gardener....not a maniac tomato grower like some of us. The other day, she mentioned to Tim that "everyone was having problems with their tomatoes" around her and he explained Late Blight to her. I am glad it hasn't hit her plants and hope it continues to miss them. Of course, in PA they don't have a lot of growing season left either so every good weather day and every ripe tomato is precious.

I killed another hornworm in the garden last night. It sure is late to be seeing so many. So far I've only found them on old plants and not on the fresh fall plants. I still have quite a lot of hummingbird moths visiting the four o'clocks and daturas from late afternoon onward. I could kill every hornworm I see and I'd stll have them. They are everywhere here because of the large number of native solanacea plants in the pastures.

Dawn

Dawn the one I picked weighed 5 ounces. So far size has been average or above on most I've picked. Amazon Chocolate is winding down. The size has got smaller. Taste is still good. The last bout with Septoria and EB really hurt it. JD

Dawn what size was your Purples? From the SSE yearbook they are listed as being bigger that the Korney. I got the seeds from Suze who I know you have seen on the forums. She is from TX. I trust her descriptions. But then taste can vary so much due to many reasons. So you never know till you try them in your garden. Jay

Jay, Mine produced late so they were really small compared to what I expected--maybe 8 oz.? The first might have been 10 ounces. If Suze got larger ones, I'd bet it was because hers set fruit earlier down there in south Texas. Here in OK I was fighting a very wet spring so nothing set fruit well until June and they probably ripened in late July or in August. I was disappointed. I hope you have a better experience with them, but then all my tomatoes were fairly disappointing that year, except for Nebraska Wedding. It was planted very late and produced quickly (it didn't suffer waterlogged roots and that might be why) and heavily and the fruit had great flavor.

One thing about my purples that year was that they had far less foliar disease than everything else. They were in a row that had never had tomatoes before because previously it was the flower border around the veggie garden until I enlarged the veggie garden and it swallowed up the flower border. They also set well all summer, which I attributed to it being a cooler, wetter than average summer.

Dawn

Dawn,
Suze said 3-7 ounces on the Marizol Korneys. But in the SSE yearbook 3-4 have Marizol Purple listed and list it up to 12 ounces I think. Which is some bigger than the Korneys. Mine are coming in at 5 so far. Think one or two may make 6. So I'm very close to what she got. So there must be something different as the fruit size between the two seems smaller. Jay

Jay,

The year I grew Marizol Purple and thought it was small, we had a rainy spring (I don't remember how rainy, but 'very') and then had 12" in June alone. So, my fruit set late because of slow early growth in April-May, but may have been larger than normal because of that 12" of rain in June. Anything that ripened in June was very watery. That was in 2004 and my peaches were watery too, but we had gazillions of them.

I had expected Marizol Purple to be 10-16 oz. based on what was on the seed packet or seed desciption, but I don't keep notes and don't remember my seed source. It was the tomato plant that wouldn't die.

That was the year I tried oxhearts and got almost nothing from them even though it was cooler and wetter than average here.

The ones that make large fruit...like German Queen, Big Rainbow, Black Pineapple, etc. were huge that year, but bland and watery.

It was a year of really heavy, if late, production and really large, though bland, fruit for most plants. I finally got tomatoes with good flavor in September because the rains stopped in mid-July. Many varieties I tried for the first time that year didn't even get a second chance the following year which was, by the way, our worst drought year ever since we moved here. In the drought year, production was way down but flavor was amazing.

It amazes me how much production, size and flavor vary from place to place and year to year.

The first three years I tried Cherokee Purple it didn't taste that great, didn't produce well and was sickly. I stuck with it because of its reputation, and after that, it did great. So, I know better than to write off a variety after only one try at growing it, but sometimes I do it anyway.

Dawn

Dawn when you grow as many varieties as you and I have sometimes it isn't possible to give them more than a year. And in some cases I've only planted one plant. And that doesn't give one a fair chance either. CP has been good for me. IS is the biggest I've ever had it this year and tastes as good as I've tasted it and still not as good as CP. IS has at least 15 fruit on it. I got that many off CP in a bad year last year. And CP is always bigger for me. But know several who claim IS out produces CP for them. Flavor does vary some here but with the deep sand I don't notice it like those in the tighter ground. And flavor of everything has been as good as normal this year. Will if my impression changes in the next few weeks as the numbers increase. Picked quite a bit out of the garden tonight. Around a 5 gallon bucket of peppers and still didn't pick near all of them. Will the cool weather coming I expect the okra to slack off. I have some late that has just started producing. IS was just the start of my favorites. Brandyboy has around 25 on the vine. True Black Brandywine I've never tasted but has 25 or more. Eating Juane Flammee's in the garden every day now. Kellogg's Breakfast is going crazy. Growing and setting a bunch. Hopefully several of them will have time to make it. Like a kid waiting for Christmas. Have to check them several times a day just in case they have decided to ripen fast. Ha. Jay

Jay,

Our gardens are opposites. For me, IS outproduces CP and tastes better too, and is earlier, so that contradicts your findings. It is maddening.

Oh, you're going to be busy with the peppers. Congrats on the great harvest. I'm sure there'll be lots more. It sounds like the tomatoes are going nuts. Is this harvest late compared to your usual one or on time? I don't blame you for watching them closely. Undoubtedly there are some birds and varmints and bugs waiting for the maters to break color too.

I didn't plant Flammee's this year, so I have been eating Livingston Gold Ball in the garden. They are, of course, about the same size as JFs and have good flavor, but not as good as JF.

I am still hoping for cooler weather, but not too cool. I am not ready for the okra and black-eyed peas to slow down yet because I'm getting a lot put up in the freezer.

Dawn

Jay, loved your pics!

That mill in Marienthal is easy enough to find, since there is hardly anything ELSE there! LOL They have a very nice website, I will attach the link. I was really not expecting the offices to be so "humble". It's just a small house sitting near the mill, with the rooms that were once a living room and bedrooms changed into offices. What I found really interesting is that, out there in the middle of nowhere, we kept coming up on bicyclers. They told me at the mill that that highway (I think it's 96) runs all the way across KS and that all kinds of people bicycle from the eastern border to the western border just to be able to say they did it. They have to pass a couple of cattle yards, fairly close to Marienthal, and the ammonia smell is horriffic when you're passing by in your vehicle. I'd really hate to do that on a bike.

We hadn't been "out" in ages, due to my having to work, and then as soon as I retired, DH had knee surgery and there were other things that kept us around home. Had to put the old cat to sleep and I was kind of bummed out because of that, so when DGS went off to church camp, we boarded the dog, locked everything up, notified the neighbors and took off! It was really nice to get out and just drive.

We first went up to Yoder, KS, as DH had an aunt that had lived there and I, the family genealogist, did not have very much information about her. So we went there to find out more and found where she and her husband were buried and discovered she had a son who had gone to California and, once back home, I was able to find his social security death record. I don't know if he had family or not. But anyway....

We intended first to go to Kingston, where there was an organic wheat farm but when we got there we found that the farm had ceased to operate and could not find where the man who had operated it had gone. So, we knew about the mill in Marienthal and had the time, so we decided to go there. We didn't find out that there was a place just north of Wichita (Farmer Direct Foods in Atchison - www.farmerdirectfoods.com) that would've served our needs, and would have been a lot closer to where we were, until back home. Organic wheat is expensive, but it is very nice stuff. Keeps for a long, long time as long as it's left whole. Freshly ground wheat does not have that bitter taste that the whole wheat flour they sell at the grocery store has. The bitter taste either comes from whatever additive they use to keep it from spoiling, or maybe it is the taste of spoilage, I don't know. I have an electric grain mill so I mill only about five pounds at a time. We also stopped in Ark City on the way back home and went to the farmer's co-op and found out I could buy 50# of non-organic wheat for $7. I paid quite a bit more than that for organic. But the protein percentage of the organic was twice what it was for the non-organic, and it does make better bread. We stopped in at the flour mill there in Ark City and they told us they get the grain that they mill into flour through that co-op.

Another thing that I found odd was that I visited the store there in Yoder and hoped to be able to buy whole wheat there, considering that the Mennonites still do things the old fashioned way. But there was nothing there but bags of wheat from Bob's Red Mill, that cost more than if I'd just order direct from there. So I went to the bakery there to ask them where they get their wheat and did they mill it themselves and they told me they bought their wheat already milled. So much for that. You'd think, in the middle of wheat country, they'd be using local wheat.

There's also a family farm near Fairview, OK called Cattle Tracks LLC that sells organic wheat and also organically grown beef. They sell from their farm and also through the Oklahoma Food Co-op. Their website address is www.johnsfarm.com. I find the prices of their beef to be awfully high. BUT, I have noticed that the practice of inoculating beef with water to make it weigh more seems to be on the rise, and I bet they don't do that at Cattle Tracks. So all-in-all, you might get better value with the organic beef. If you're close enough to be able to drive there and pick up the wheat or beef, it is always a lot cheaper because the shipping costs more than the product does. Even with the Co-op, there's the cost of membership that you have to renew every year, you do have to drive to the closest distribution site, which ours in in Owasso, and then there is a transportation charge to pay that, though not as high, is significant. The website address of the food co-op, if anyone's interested, is www.oklahomafood.coop.

I couldn't find any place that is local to me where I can buy wheat directly from the farmer. Although they told me at the Two Rivers Co-Op in Ark City that they have a sister store in Newkirk. It would be the cheaper, non-organic, lower protein wheat, however. Oh, and I found out they have dried molasses there too but you have to buy 50 pounds.

Here is a link that might be useful: Heartland Mill in Marienthal

Dawn,
I feel my tomatoes are 2-3 later than normal. Seem to be ripening fast now. And some are really growing. Some I really want to try are slow pokes but others are growing leaps and bounds. I picked my first Brandyboy tonight. Two fused together. Didn't want to tear them apart so cut the stem off and had two tiny ones on other blossom stems. I haven't weighted it yet but a nice one. Can't believe how fast they are turning. Seems I waited for months and now one day no color and the next half turned. Will be picking Jetsonic, more Indian Stripes, Glick's 18, Security, MK's, Heinz 1439, Illini Star along with some others this weekend. So will be feasting next week unless something happens.

Ilene thanks for the link to the mill.Yoder is one of my favorite places to visit. Go on a Saturday morning. Drive along the highways and main roads. The Amish ladies will have homemade baked goods for sell and during season veggies. Of course I like their pies but their breads made from wheat they grow and grind can't be beat. I like to go to auctions back there when they have one. I really enjoy the Amish. They are great people. I know you would enjoy them also. Although I haven't tried sure you could buy some wheat and grain from them. I have bought a mix of whole grains they grow and sell they say it good for you. I think it has oats, wheat, barley and not sure what else in it. It is usually crimped. Anything Amish is good. Jay

Jay

Jay, Do the Amish make cheese there? We have several Amish communities in Oklahoma but the only one I know of with cheese is at Chouteau. When we lived in Ohio and would drive through the eastern part of Indiana, we always had to stop in the Amish businesses. They had the world's best cheese bread. I grind my own wheat and make good bread a lot, but their cheese bread was a special treat. You could smell it from the highway and just had to go chase it down.

I have wheat but would like to find a good source for corn. George will probably be on next to tell me to grow my own. LOL He will be happy to know that I did buy some dent corn so I can try it next year. I have been afraid to plant corn since we moved here because I know the deer are close and I don't want to bring them in. I have never seen one in the neighborhod but have seen them across the road and also in the next subdivision. George says they walk right past his dent corn and don't cause a real problem. I think all of the dogs that run loose probably scare them away here.

Yes, unless you REALLY have a deer problem, non sweet corn will probably not be a big draw to them. Our corn, though, did pretty poorly this year. The drought hit it and then I believe we had both squirrels and ground hogs. Been trying to be diligent, so presently I have about 10 or 15 lb. of ground hog in the freezer. (I get my harvest one way or another :)

I grow an heirloom yellow and red streaked tomato which is called Tuxhorn's Yellow & Red. Got it from Mrs. Ed Tuxhorn, in Warsaw, IN; back in 1985. The plants are very large and very tolerant of our Oklahoma conditions. But the fruit, which is quite large, rots easily until fall temperatures arrive. I've discovered that if I pick the fruit when it first blushes, it is more likely to make it. Also, during the hottest part of the summer, this one simply doesn't set fruit.

Tuxhorn's Yellow & Red has a large core. I only get 3-4 good slices out of a tomato. But it is a good one for bragging on. Also, I don't know why, but this is the absolute best tomato I've ever tried for fried green tomatoes. The flavor is so much more intense.

Baker Family Heirloom proved itself again, during this season which was not good for tomatoes. It didn't do as well as usual, but it did better than most.

Sioux, though prone to cracking, just amazes me with its constant high production and good flavor.

Black Cherry is a keeper. I LOVE rampant vines when they bear good fruit.

Being a seed saver I tend to be prejudiced against hybrids. I believe Seedmama or Soonergrandma gave me a plant of Juliet, which I planted. Of course, Jerreth, my wife, zeroed in on this one, dubbing it the best tomato of 2009, and telling me that she wants more of these in 2010! (Okay, so I'm still hoping that my late planting of Black Cherry will deluge us in fruit which will convince her otherwise). She's dehydrating them. It smells wonderful!

Here's a question for you tomato aficionados, Is there a variety out there which has flavor like Sioux but is harder and more durable? Jerreth really likes for a tomato to be harder, since our soft ones often rot before she can can them. Would Stone (Livingston's Stone) fit the bill? Any ideas?

Gotta run!

George

Jay,

I hope the mild weather holds for a long time and that you are able to harvest and enjoy tons and tons of tomatoes. It is funny how they all start turning at once, and it happens to me every fall when the cooler weather hits.

Carol, Before we had the taller garden fence to keep out the deer, they got into my garden all the time. I don't remember them every bothering the corn a single time. They never nibbled the young plants. They never bothered the ripe ears. Raccoons, though, are a whole different story with sweet corn. I haven't had coons bother dent corn either, even when it is grown outside the garden fence.

George, Stone is a very good tomato, but in my garden it is not a real heavy producer. However, I tend to grow it as a fall tomato and it might produce more heavily if it had a chance to grow in spring/early summer instead of mid-summer thru fall.

Some other tomatoes that are similar to Sioux in terms of having that old-fashioned tomato flavor and dense, meaty flesh are Bonny Best, John Baer and Break O'Day. I'd add Debbie and Cuostralee to that list as well.

Have y'all tried Super Sioux which is out of the same breeding program as Sioux? It is a tiny bit earlier but doesn't crack as much and might be a bit more durable than Sioux.

I bet Jay will have lots of suggestions.

Dawn

Those folks at Yoder are Mennonite, aren't they? I mean, not a lot of difference between Mennonite and Amish but... My German ancestors, that lived in a little community called "Mont Ida" near Garnet, KS, were what they called "Dunkards" -- German Baptist. They had many of the same ways and beliefs though. We went to Garnet doing some research and found that they drive their tractors to get places sometimes, although they still use their buggies, too. Seems they aren't allowed to have cars but they can have tractors because of some special variance passed by their Elders so they can work their land. The teenagers ask for tractors when they reach 16 like other kids ask for a car. I was told that it wasn't uncommon to drive by a Mennonite farm on a really hot day and see the whole family huddled in the cab of an air-conditioned tractor. But I haven't seen this myself. I did see a bearded old man pull into the parking lot of the restaurant they have there in Garnet during a bone-chilling windy March day. He had a tarp fastened down over the engine of the tractor that extended up to cover him and fit around his neck. He was towing a small trailer that looked like the bottom of a 2-horse trailer with a camper cap fastened to the top. After he parked, his wife came bounding out of that trailer and they walked into the restaurant to eat. I was kind of flabbergasted at the sight, at the time I didn't know about the tractor thing. I'm not making fun of them, mind you. They do what they have to do. These are people with the same customs that my ancestors had but they have had to change in some ways in order to survive. They can't sell milk any more, which was a big thing for them, because the Federal Govt came out with a new law that you had to bring the milk down to a certain temp within a certain amount of time and they couldn't do that without refrigeration or electricity. I just don't know how people get by without electricity but they manage somehow. You'd think their Elders would've seen fit to relax that rule when they said they could use tractors.

I will remember that Saturday morning thing in Yoder. I didn't know about that. I have tried to buy grain there but I guess I just haven't asked in the right places yet. I know they have a festival in the spring when they auction off quilts and have lots of things to sell.

If you enjoy Yoder, take a look at Jamesport MO. It's full of restaurants, quilt shops and antique shops, they have festivals at certain times of the year and you get to tour some of the farms. There's a grocery store there that they all buy at and the public is allowed to go there, too. I found prices to be reasonable. From the packaging, I'd guess they bought in bulk and then repackaged for sale in the store. Usually their festivals are advertised in those free papers you can pick up in most antique stores.

I've eaten in Choteau many times. It is true that those women really know how to cook. They've got a hand-crafted furniture store there too, but I've never been there.

Another wonderful place to go is the Amana Colonies in Iowa. We went to What Cheer, Iowa to see that huge flea market they have there, quite a few years ago. While we were standing in line getting something to eat, we started visiting with the people standing around us and they told us about the Amana Colonies, which were nearby. We went there and it is quite a community. I bought a book telling the history of it. They were at one time completely self-sufficient, growing all their own food, making all their own products. They had a community kitchen and all ate together. At one time, they ran a factory that made appliances -- Amana appliances. We went to The Brick Oven there and they handed us a menu which was a little card listing only about ten different kinds of meat and no mention of sides. I thought, "Well, I guess I'll stay on my diet here." We ordered, they brought out a plate full of the meat, and then they started bringing out these white restaurant bowls, each holding about a quart, and covered the table with them. Mashed potatoes, fried potatoes, several kinds of vegetables and salads. There were only two of us! It was all delicious. We ate till we were stuffed! Then the waitress came out and said, "What kind of pie would you like?" I couldn't live there, I'd be so fat I wouldn't be able to get through the door. But you don't see too many overweight people in those communities. They must work it all off.

Ilene,
There is both Old Order and New Order Amish in Yoder. Surrounded by the Mennonites. The one I knew the best was an older couple and he dealt in antiques. Him and his wife are members of a branch called the White Hat Amish. Among the differences when I first got to know them was the Old order White Hats had no electricity, phones or vehicles or tractors. The new order did. But didn't allow pu's cars ect. Abut 6-7 years ago the Old Order changed their rules in Yoder where they can have small tractors. The man I mentioned had to be close to 80 and he bought a little Ford tractor. Although they are allowed to drive for someone they work for I understand he had only drove a team. So guess it was exciting for a while. Great people. Doing business with them is totally different than dealing with Mennonites. We have several Mennonite communities in this area. So I know them better than the Amish. The Mennonites here don't use horses to travel ect. I've seen the new order pull a stock trailer with the tractor and wife and kids in the back into Hutchinson to the Wal Mart ect. The Old Order still go in their buggies a lot or catch a ride. I had heard several stories about them and that they are a cult. If you get to know them and learn about them I feel most will would be like me and trully respect and admire them. They are honest and hard working. Mind their own business. And very helpful and caring. Yes great food. I guess the reason they stay in such good shape is the hard work. Jay

I have visited several communities of Amish and Mennonite and I love to do business with them. I have always found them to be fair and honest. In Dayton I have seen them eating at fast food places and driving Mercedes pulling camping trailers, but other places they live very simply. Like many denominations, there are a lot of "break-off" groups that make up their own rules. I was just reading about them a few nights ago after learning that the group we saw in Seymore were "Olde Order".

George, the Juliet didn't come from me, so it must have been seedmama. She is very busy with life right now and hasn't been posting on the forum. The transplants I gave you were Roma and Baker's Family Heirloom. Wasn't it nice of me to give you those Bakers, since the seed was yours in the first place. HeeHee I brought you 4 Bakers and I think she shared hers with you also. I'm just glad you had tomatoes after losing all of your transplants.

George,
I will think on your question a little. What size does she like? The first few I think of is Glick's 18 Mennonite 4-6 ounces, red and has done well here for two years. Some better this year but they all have. I have lost a few of them early on. Seems they tend to get hardier as the season progresses. Also hoping that by saving seeds that they will adapt. Heinz 1439 has done well for me. I'm just picking my first ones. It is a det. if that matters. Many like Thessaloniki and for me it is better than Sioux was but I like the other two better. Flavor wise I only got 4-5 from Sioux when I grew it 3 years ago so don't remember the flavor that well. Know it didn't impress me or I would of. Mr Bruno is another that comes to mind. I will think about it and sure I will think of something else. And I should have seeds for all of those I've mentioned. Jay

I just posted some pictures at Photobucket of Marizol Korney and my impressions. I rate it a 7.5-8.0 on taste. Will grow it in the ground next year. Another nice one. Jay