Tomt I agree with everything you said, but I still love Tabasco lol. To me it was the first "spicy" thing I every ate and I grew up with it. It is way different than the other vinegar type sauces ( that I do not care for) because it has a fermented taste. That being said I do love all kinds of vinegar and that is what I use Tabasco as, a tangy spicy vinegar not as a traditional hot sauce. But all in all you are 100% correct it is a crap sauce but a good vinegar and I still think Tabasco has it's place. ( Pizza, eggs, fried food, salad dressing anything you would put vinegar on)

Love Tabasco... remember the days when there weren't 500 hot sauces to chose from at the grocery store? But there was always Tabasco on the shelf. They are one of the originals....

And unfortunately or not, out of all of those 500 hot sauces to chose from most if not all of them contain some kind of vinegar. (for a reason)

Tom, I was in the same boat, most all sauces tasted like crap, especially those extract ones, yuck! I now make my own and use my own, though I do use vinegar not that plain distilled white vinegar crap, red wine is what I mostly use and not in such abundance to rid the sauce of the pepper flavor. The base and the main ingredient is the pepper I put 10-15 peppers to one bottle, and onion and garlic are the only other things I may put in, unless I want a fruit based flavor profile then it's pineapple, apple, lime etc... The process I use the sauce can be used the same day but letting it sit for a week or two gives it the best flavor as it all melds together.

Make your own and you can tweak it until its to your liking you won't be disappointed.

Mark

The same can be said of BBQ sauces Tom. Don't care for the vinegar based ones at all.

I only recently discovered Sriracha and really like it. Sure it's sweet, but if I'm in the mood for a bit more heat and pepper flavor, I just sprinkle on a bit of my hickory smoked chili powder too.

Mmmm... this is making me hungry, and thirsty!

Totally agree. Never have liked tabasco and never will just because of the vinegar. Not only does it overwhelm the sauce, but it overwhelms the DISH.

I love Tapatio myself, but have not found a recipe to copycat it.

As far as superhots are concerned, I FULLY recommend everybody try a mash and see how you like it. Pretty awesome stuff I made last year with Bhuts, Nagas, garlic, onions and a bit of carrot for sweetness and give something for the little yeasties to feed on. Plus, it's totally simple and shelf stable.

Great info on the link provided.

Kevin

Here is a link that might be useful: Fermenting Peppers 101

In agreement, as well. I can't stand vinegar. Or Tabasco.

Josh

Oh man I could drink a glass of malt vinegar.

Malinda's Naga Jolokia XX is awesome! Right amount of heat and insane flavor!
Sontava is incredible as well.

Stoney

I'm going to be the outcast on this one. I really love the thin vinegar sauces! I really enjoy the thick, meaty, flavorful sauces too - but there's just something about the 'dousing' sauces I can't get enough of.

Last personal sauce:
50 orange habs, 10 roasted jalapeños, 2 tbs salt, and just enough white vinegar to cover them in the pot..... Cook - blend - cook - refrigerate (~3 weeks) - cook - strain - bottle.

Dousing Gold

Jay

I make my own sauces and salsas from all kinds of home-grown peppers, usually Ghosts, habaneros, tepins, and Thai Hots.
People gotta remember, IMHO, sauce is a condiment, not a food group. Salsa is a dip, kinda like guacamole.
The fresher the ingredients, the better the salsa and sauce.
All mine are refrigerated so they don't need vinegar.

I hate the store bought tabasco sauce, I think it tastes like crap, but I absolutely love my tabasco sauce. I do use vinegar, but I don't strain. Mine is much thicker than the liquid stuff, and much hotter too.
Pam

My last batch, blended ghosts and red jalapenoes, with onion, carrot, garlic and red wine vinegar, water, lemon juice.

I love my Vitamix for this...

one of the great things about peppers, is there's so many different types of sauces out there that everyone can be happy. and if there isn't a sauce that's exactly what you want, you can make it yourself. I personally love vinegar based sauces, that's why I make and sell vinegar based sauces. apparently lots of other people like them too, which may why that's the dominant category of hot sauce on the market. but hey, differences of opinion is part of what makes the world a fun place.

Different types of vinegar also make a difference. Coconut vinegar is a nice variant.

Sugar masks the heat of chiles. Sometimes that's good, sometimes not.

No one hot sauce works for everything. Sometimes we use a lot, sometimes just a little. Chile pastes differ as well, same caveats.

The heat of a Sichuan dan dan mein is totally different than that of lamb vindaloo or a Nashville fried chicken.

Not a big fan of the Vinegar based ones myself. Tabasco is fine if you have nothing else when your eating out, but now I bring my own Hab powder or hab liquid out to eat. Gotten so use to having a pure variety (just habs, water, a little little bit of asian rice vinegar, cook it, let it sit in the fridge and Voila) thats all I can handle. Too much onions, tomatos, carrots, celery and some fruit types, etc.... that they put in these market liquids just make me gag. Not saying their bad, just not in my taste zone anymore. I like the true flavor of the habs, not diluted versions (specifically the smokiness of the habs). Once in a while my wife will make a paste using those ingredients which is good over fish or chicken, but I still pour tons of liquid on top of that. LOL

This post was edited by RonnyB123 on Fri, May 30, 14 at 14:26

Would a sauce made uusing straight wine instead of vinegar be a good choice?

Lori: Only one way to find out! Let us know.

;)

Kevin

I dont see why it wouldnt work. It may be acidic enough.

However, I do see some recipies here that do not use it.

Here is a link that might be useful: Habanero sauces

I always start my stews with the meat seared and a couple of cups of wine. The acid in the wine tenderizes the meat. Yup, I'm going to give it a "shot" with my first crop.

Back to the kitchen ya'll
Drag some rice vinegar in there with you,I did not say "rice wine vinegar"
Rice Vinegar,have a taste from the bottle and youll have a new vinegar friend.
Keep the ratio's low and your sauces will shine the ingredients.
Save the white stuff for pickles . . . . . .

I see a lot of you spoke against vinegar in Tobasco.
I personaly like vinegar and I think is fine. I even use it in cooking just like wine.

The reason they add vinegar to hot sauce is not because they want the sauce to taste sour and vinegary but to acidify it for preservation purpose. You have to add one kind of acid or other ; lemon juice, lime juice , ascorbic acid, vinegar. You cannot use wine as preservative (technically) because it does not contain enough acid. To preserve food with Boiling Water Bath method, you have to have a pH of about 3.8(4.2 max ?) to be safe. Now if you don't like vinegary taste you can add things like, carrots, peach, pineapple, honey .. to hide the vinegar taste. Probably with things like pineapple and peach you'll need less vinegar because they are already acidic.

Yeah. I just googled. They both have a pH of 3.2 to 4.00. But then their pH also comes from some kind of acid, anyway.
But household vinegar (5% acidity) has a pH of 2.40. So too much of it will make your sauce too sour, beyond necessary.
So using a combination of fruits, sweets, vinegar you can create a flavor that you like. I made some with pineapple(Habanero base). I love it. ( I just tasted a tea spoonful of it). No vinegar taste here and it is not sweet either.

FURTHER MORE:
If you make a small batch (for short term use) and keep it refrigerated, you can cut down on acids.

Thanks for the info. If I use wine, I will be sure to also pressure can the product.

I think it really depends on what you are going for. Either in terms of flavor profiles (eg: salsa vs. buffalo), or what dishes you are enhancing by adding a spicy sauce (eg: spicy noodles vs pizza), and what peppers you are using in your sauces.

I used to think I hated vinegar and pickles, until I started learning how much the right amount of acidity in food can bring out different flavors, and cut through richness.

Aside from a vinegar vs. lime/lemon juice argument, there are a lot of types of vinegars out there, some already mentioned here that can make for very diff results. Same as your sugar options: sugars/syrups/fruit.

I do agree that I'm not much of a fan of the generic chile sauces out there. Thats probably the biggest motivation for why we make our own sauces/mixes on these forums. But I don't think there is an absolute answer out there for chiles and their uses. Thats one of my favorite things about them, their global use in so many different types of cuisines. Oaxacans are responsible for some pretty amazing sauces and spice mixes, but so are other various parts of Thailand, Cambodia, Korea, India, Caribbean, etc.

Aaaargh, now i'm really hungry for something spicy
-E

chilemilo,
If you want something acidic, you DON'T have to go vinegar.
6-medium tomatillos, husked, washed, and quartered
3-cloves garlic, rough chop
4-serranos, rough chop
Handfull of cilantro
Heaping teaspoon of table salt.
Put everything in the blender and process until finely chunky. If it's too thick, add a little lime juice or water.
Now that'll pucker yuh right up...

As I mentioned before, the primary purpose of "acid" of any kind and source (vinegar, lime, lemon, tomato, ..) is to lower pH to about under 3.8. Now the personal taste is another issue. I personally like fruity taste rather than carrots and tomatoes. I like acid that comes from pineapple, peach, apricot, sour cherry, rather than vinegar and lime.

So if you want to bottle and preserve, have to pay attention to pH. For small refrigerated amounts that is going to be consumed within a couple of month, it is not that critical . in my opinion.

You can buy and mix in pure citric acid it doesn't change the flavor.. then you don't have to worry about the flavor ingredients providing the ph.

As woohooman mentioned above, fermenting your own, making your own mash, is the way to go. That link is pretty good - although once you understand the basics, then its an art form. Essentially, its the same thing as making sauerkraut - the fermentation eats up the sugars in the peppers / fruit, etc, creating lactic acid, which in turn preserves it, eliminating the need for any added vinegar. You can either keep it refrigerated or water-bath can it.

I start off by saving any and all peppers that turn red - pull off the stems, slice roughly, put in a ziplock and into the chest freezer. At the end of the growing season, most of whats left on the plants is red, and the still-green peppers I leave on a tray, most turn red as well. Then thaw out the frozen ones, saving any liquid, and use a blender or food processor to chop them up into a 'mash'. Add salt, and then into the fermentation chamber.

You can also do this with green peppers as well. You can mix red and green, but the end result looks a bit like mud.

I use 3 gallon ceramic crocks, plastic bags filled with water as the seal. however you can use a mason jar with a special lid, see link. The whole idea is an anaerobic fermentation, just like they use to make wine, or sauerkraut, or the old-fashioned way to make pickles.

The longer you leave it, the more complex the flavor. Its better to do this in a cool environment, perfect is 65 - 70 F. You can add mango slices, apple slices, onion, spices, what ever.

I don't add a 'starter' unless I'm making something with roasted chili - a whole other world of good. Because then, the roasting process killed the natural bacteria, and ya have to add something, I use a splash of kefir because it gives a great flavor and result.

Each time its a bit different. Its also pretty safe - there are a bazillion utubes out there on how to make sauerkraut, its the same process.

When its done fermenting, for me usually 6 weeks, I run it through a food mill to remove the seeds and skin.

Its still 'alive', so be careful because its still fermenting and can pop off lids and such.

I do about 15 quarts of finished sauce a year. It doesn't last.

Here is a link that might be useful: link to special lids

I went looking for a bottled Mango/Habanero sauce not knowing if I would like mango or not. The overripe mangos at the store kinda stunk. Anyway, I found a Mango/Ginger/Habanero made by Fisher & Wieser. It has some apple cider vinegar but it's way down on the list.

Very tasty sauce. Sweet and not too hot. A bit expensive, but it's not due to shipping costs. Turns out it's made in Frederickberg, about 30 miles from my house. I will definitely be making my own this fall.

Well, I hate to dissent but I absolutely love my Tabasco Sauce! It has a wonderfully complex flavor profile only achieved through aging in oak barrels for at least three years. How many items do you see with only three all-natural ingredients??? I love the fact that I can travel the globe and find a bottle of the iconic Southern condiment! I have very fond memories of sitting with my grandfather on his porch eating fresh Gulf oysters (bought right off the boat!) on Saltines with a dash of Tabasco. I tried my hand at making a batch of sauce with Tabasco peppers from my garden. It has a great flavor, but not the complexity from fermenting and aging. Maybe I'll have the patience to try to replicate the real thing.

David52 is spot on. Fermentation is the tastiest and healthiest way to go. Yours is exactly the method I used with my last batch of habaneros- amazing!

Sorry, Tabasco is, and always will be, crap...

Tom - why so negative? Tabasco is a wonderful condiment and should be appreciated for what it is. Lighten up and enjoy life...

LOL. I "appreciate" Tabasco for what it is...flavored vinegar. I keep some at the house for use too. However, once I started making my own salsas and sauces, and sampling some from Mexico, I realized how bereft of flavor it really was. It's place is fading fast, just like the other condiment...ketchup, which is being supplanted by salsas. And, I like vinegar on my collards, but spiced up with ghost peppers...

Anyone who makes blanket statements like "I don't like vinegar" most likely has a very rudimentary palate. Tabasco has it's place and the jalapeño version on eggs is very addictive! That being said I use homemade for everything else... And that's the key, making it yourself. Ketchup is still good but I make my own with heirlooms which makes the commercial corn syrup variety a very pale comparison.

Cooking peppers is actually more of a flavour destroyer than adding vinegar. That's why any purists who want true pepper flavour should try fermenting. Although Tabasco is fermented they also add vinegar which isnt a requirement for a real ferment so don't be put off by their method.

LOL. Properly cooked sauces and salsas have a milder more rounded flavor than the raw variety. So using your logic, you shouldn't cook your "artisan" ketchup? Tomatoes have a much more delicate flavor than most peppers.

If you read the original OP, I said it was subjective. No need to insult somebody because you don't agree with their opinion...

Mc ilhenney's tabasco tastes good imho, even after all of these years. I can taste the ferment and complexity despite the vinegar. But i realize that not everyone has the same palate and that your DNA actually determines how your tastebuds work.

Not all hot sauce types are made for every dish either, so just grab the appropriate one and enjoy.

Steve