Hello,
This is Stuart down in Bradenton.
The stalk looks to be healthy too. I haven't tried the gritty mix here in Florida only because it gets so hot down here.
I also wonder what cultivar this is? May have something to do with the type of hybrid it is.
I'm going to say it's a nourishment issue your having.
When did you plant this cutting?

Hi Stuart,

It is a JJ Inca Gold. I bought it as a rooted plant last summer.

Yes, I have been a little concerned about gritty mix + our incredible heat the majority of the year. It hit home this weekend that I'm doing something terribly wrong this year:

In the spring I had two rooted cuttings- I gave one to a relative in Jacksonville and kept one. The one I gave them was the smaller, less robust of the two. Mine is in gritty mix and has but 4 sickly leaves. They put theirs in conventional potting mix with run of the mill fertilizer and theirs is *crazy*... tons of huge, beautiful leaves, a few inches of green on the crown.

This is disappointing, since I spent a lot of time and money tracking down and making the gritty mix. I know others have had great success so I am sure that it is something I am doing wrong. But perhaps it is the Foliage Pro, actually. Maybe I need to use more or just switch to Dynamite which I've had good success with in the past, tons of people use it in this area as you probably know (I think they are based in Sarasota?)

Again, I'm not clear that this is the problem with this plant. I suspect it actually has more than one problem :)

Hi Brian,

I want you to know that some of my trees that are not in the gritty mix are having the same problem. Most are doing well, but i do have a few that are in the traditional mix are slow to wake and have some issues as well. I will say that i have half of my trees in Gritty and half in my traditional mix. I have been watching them closely to see if they do react differently because of the heat. I have been feeding mine weekly with the Foliage pro amd Pro TeKt.
I also water first to make sure they all have some moisture in the container before i go back and fertilize. I do this so im sure the water and Fertilizer doenst just run through the container. Then i go back and give another go around with the same mixture (fert and FP) and make sure it is well watered. If i just water my trees when dry and water with spray nozzle, the mix is so fast draining as well as my other "standard" mix, it can just run thru so quickly that it doesn't really water the container well. I know you have the same heat as i do here in VA..sometimes just as hot or even more. I would make sure the tree is receiving a good amt. of PF at each feeding. I will admit....i use 1-2 tsp of FP when i make my mix... per gallon. One tree that seems to be having this same issue as yours is my Hawaiian Flag. All of the other trees are doing great and the leaves are huge with inflos, but this one is just stalled...my Pele is still having issues too, I would try and see it there is any other issues with your tree and make sure you are watering your mix before you fertilize so all of the mixture absorbs all of the moisture along with the nutrients as well.

I hope this helps.

My trees that are in both mixes are watered at the same time and all seem to need water at the same time as all of the other trees that i haven't repotted into the Gritty Mix.

I hope this helps..

Please let us know how your tree is doing!

Laura

Unless it's typical of the plant, a late spring flush most often symptomatic of a compromised root system. Are RK nematodes a problem in your area? Any reason to think the roots might be/have been in trouble?

I usually overflow a tablespoon by about a half teaspoon in 2 gallons of water weekly when temperatures are favorable for growth, so I suppose that would be 3.5 tsp/2 gallons of FP 9-3-6 - close to twice what you're using.

What went into the soil you made?

Al

I don't know if Plumerias are/are not typically susceptible to root knots. I have never seen a Plumeria (or any other close relative) root system with them. The pictures in my opinion are typical of heat related stress and/or lack of soil nutrients. Are all the other ones under performing too?

It may be the watering technique. How do you get enough water to stay in the mix long enough for the porus material to suck in water and the non porus to be coated? That is the question which comes to my mind. Seems like gravity works against you. Anyone ever just taken the pot and put it in a bucket of water and let it sit for a few minutes?

Speaking as a fellow Plumeria owner in a high heat/humidity environment I am watering 2 and 3 times a week right now (plus whatever the irrigation system sprays on them) and using a granular fertilizer and Spray and Grow on an every other week rotation.

Hi all, thanks for the tips:

Laura, I called Dyna-Gro and they did not seem to think I was under-fertilizing but did recommend using a smaller amount more frequently instead of once a week. Still, I'm going to bump it up at least for a while to see if that helps.

Al, I used 4 parts turface, 3 parts bark, 2 parts granite all in the recommended sizes, sifted, etc. along with a small bit of gypsum. I do not think I caused stress when repotting into the mix earlier this year, but something could have happened. Per reading your other posts, I do think that I should have made more of an effort to keep the roots damp while repotting.

K, I had the same concern, about water uptake... especially since the mix in the top of the pot goes bone dry in the sun in no time. However, some exploratory digging and a water meter has revealed that the mix is getting moist once you get below the surface. However, I still think this mix might require more fertilizer than the manufacturer recommends.

I do have an Aztec Gold that I recently rooted (rooted within a couple of weeks) and it is now going crazy in the gritty mix. So part of the problem does seem to be the established plants that I repotted.

Hey Brian,

I also use less FP during the off season.. Also when watering my trees in the winter, fall etc. I use 1/4 tsp then per gallon. I wanted to say that when i do fertilize which i try to do once a week, sometimes its every 7-10 days cuz of work. During the summer i use 1-2 tsp per gallon. Then when i saw that AL uses a little over 1 tablespoon in two gallons... I went and used the During this massive heat..Like K had mentioned, I have been watering about every three days. In between feeding, i only use water.

These next few days are going to be scorching hot, so i went and made sure i watered well and fertilized.

You made a good point about the roots needing to be wet or moist when repotting. Maaybe that made this tree stall?

I bet it will turn around for you...

Ill be watching this post and hoping for good news on this tree!

Take care,

Laura

I would consider increasing the number of fertilzing per week and "pre watering" as Laura talks about. Maybe a light solution of epsom salt to help start them back up. My experience has been that roots have to be exposed for more than just the few minutes it takes to transplant to have a problem of drying out.

I use Spray and Grow every other week in the evenings (time permitting) from about April to October. The granular fertilizer I use is a half dose of the recommended monthly amount every other week during the peak season. By October I go to a quarter dose every other week and stop completely by the end of Oct.

If I remember correctly from previous chains there is nearly no nutritional value in your mix and its up to you to dose it. The good news is its controlled by you and the bad news is its controlled by you. i.e. little to no margin for error as you may be experiencing right now in adapting your techniques. Good luck and I hope it helps your plants turn around.

I had this same type of thing going on with some of my plants earlier in the spring as well: Madame Pele, Plastic PInk, Elsie, My Val, Donna S, Wave Rage...that's all that comes to mind now. Some of these are in the gritty, some aren't (yet). They all receive the same water/fert regimen.

In each case, some or all growth tips hardened over instead of waking up normally from dormancy; and although the tip and scars swelled, the plants would not set out claws at first. In most cases, the tips eventually branched with 3-6 new tips (like with Jen's J105), but it's taken to about now for the emerging new growth to NOT look deformed.

Before Brian started this thread, I wondered on my own what was causing it and came up with a different theory. It just never occurred to me that it was a nutritional problem, especially since the rest of my trees were fine.

Jack Morgan says black tip is not caused by a fungus, but by mites. This is not the same condition as black tip, of course-- but I remembered that and thought maybe mites on the tips could cause this condition as well by their being present when the tree is first coming out of dormancy, and then continuously dining on all of the new foliage as it emerges. Over a period of time, the tip hardens basically because, well, there's nothing much going on in the way of growth.

Anyone care to comment on whether this alternate explanation is plausible?

Greg

Hey Greg,

You may be on to something....

Most of my trees are doing great, but i do have a handful that have been very slow to come out of dormncy. I have been doing the same watering and fertilizing as with all of the other trees. One tree in particular, i was going to cut into branches and start them as new cuttings. I decided against that and let it be. IT has finally started pushing new branches from the deformed tips. Puzzling, but i thik you may be right about something happening to the root system during dormancy or some insect problem causing the tip to callas over and look like they are "fused" I know one "Pele" was my fault, but the others like Kauka WIlder had that same issue as well as Pu"u Kahea.

I think there are many issues that contribute to some of these trees not responding to the way we are used to.

The first thing i think of is watering and feeding, Like K mentioned. We have to give these plants nutrition. Water when dry. incects are so hard to see sometimes and i will spray only when needed, so i am one to really wait to spray because i don't want to burn my leaves here in his intense heat.

You have heard others on the West coast talk about their trees being slow to wake.. I think that we have plenty of other Plumeria People that are having the same issues and it is just something we can try to fix, or just wait for he tree to decide when it wants to finally make his/her appearance. I don't think we are alone in this.... MY Pele is finally shooting leaves from the side of the branch. I try not to stare cuz i want to give it some time to react and give "him" space!! LOL

They are all so different. If you know you are feeding well, watering well. Plenty of sunshine.. It is in a good fast draining mix and not water logged, you have mastered most of the battle beside the insect issue. Give these trees some time.

My trees have grown so much in one week, so i think we will all see some positive growth form this heat and sunshine mother nature has provided for us...

I think i am going to go and water!!! : ) Temps here yesterday were 97* with the same predicted today... UGGG!

Good Luck!!

Hope this helps!!!

Laura

I am in California and still have some plants that haven't broke dormancy yet. They get the same water and fertilizer as the others that are leafed out right next to them. Stems are firm. I have been tempted to pull one up and inspect roots. I think it might just be the different cultivars wake up different.

Greg... Let me compose my thoughts on something bigger thN a phone later. I would be the worst dentist in the world with these big fingers.

Irun - your mix should be holding plenty of water. I would just increase the FP to 2 tsp/gallon weekly.

Dosing with Mg (Epsom salts), or any other element/compound aimed at providing a singular nutrient, has little potential to have a positive outcome in terms of plant health when you're using a quality fertilizer like FP. In fact, if you're fertilizing correctly, it has much greater potential to be limiting than a help.

People think that if you apply iron sulfate or Epsom salts to your plant with the result being a greener leaf color, that you've necessarily done a good thing. In fact, if Mg or Fe weren't deficient when these compounds were applied, or were deficient for cultural reasons, rather than an ACTUAL deficiency of the elements, it's counterproductive.

Technically, there is ONE ideal ratio of nutrients to each other. The very goal of your fertilizer program should be to ensure that all nutrients essential to growth are in the soil at all times, in the ratio at which the plant uses them and at a concentration high enough to ensure no deficiencies and low enough that it doesn't impact the plant's ability to take up water and the nutrients dissolved in water.

One of the KEY elements in FPs make up is it supplies ALL nutrients plants take from the soil in a ratio that represents the average usage of all plants (the amount of variation between plants is surprisingly small), and it supplies N in a very usable and easy-on-the-plant form. It's pretty hard to improve on a formula like that. Most problems are usually in relation to too much or too little fertilizer.

Roots are the primary and most efficient pathway into the plant. If you see improvement with anything you spray on your plant, suspect you're inadequately supplementing the nutrition being taken up by the roots. In many cases, people see what they want to see, so if you suggest you spray product X on their plants, they're going to 'see' an improvement that in most cases might not be there. Foliar feeding is generally reserved for supplying specific nutrients that may be available in the soil, but the plant is unable to move them through the nutrient stream fast enough to supply growth demands. This is RARELY the case in any potted plants or plants well-tended in the garden.

I'm not a big plumie grower - I live in a frozen wasteland, for crying out loud. ;-) I have one plumeria (thanks, Laura) so I can be familiar with their growth habit and observe their reaction to my efforts at husbandry, which have been favorable. My suggestion is to get settled - get your watering/fertilizing basics down so you're very comfortable with your plant's needs/wants. I use nothing on my plants but Foliage-Pro. I grow at least 100 different species of woody plants in containers. I had a fellow bonsai practitioner visit my home last night, and for the entire evening he marveled at the health of the plants I tend.

I don't have any secrets. I use the gritty mix, and I water/fertilize at as close to appropriate intervals as possible. The ONLY other thing I do is watch out for pests/diseases & react accordingly, but with healthy plants, pests and disease usually settle on something more preferable, a weaker target.

There's no magic bullet, guys. Get the soil right and you've almost reached the top of the hill - get your watering habits and fertilizing timed so it meshes nicely with your soil choice, and you're over the top.

Al

I was out of town for most of the week but prior to leaving had started increasing the amount of FP. This week I applied 3 tsp to try and get a jump start. Will throttle back to 2 tsp this week.

It is too early to say for sure but it looks like the two plants with the biggest problems are trying to put out better leaves now.

Al, I agree and this is one reason why I liked the idea of FP- it is all-inclusive.

I still have some leftover Spray-n-grow from last year that I'm using on occasion but I am not sure I will buy more. There is not much evidence out there on the benefits foliar feeding- at least not nearly to back up all the Spray-n-grow claims.

OTOH it seems to be in that broad category of things that "can't hurt." I used it last year religiously and all my plants actually did really well but there are too many factors at play to attribute this to one factor.