maybe meadows and prairies isnt the best place to ask this question but ill give u my 2 pennies worth.

globalization has many good and bad points and one is the spread of pathogens.

soils have very much been disturbed as well as air and temp. movements.

when is the last time u saw someone actually build a forest instead of cutting one down?

non local genotype spp. genetics can get into a population and disrupt the future of that system in many a way.

and here is a prairie botanist theory that u have to look in the scale of millions of years.
there is a trend for the grasses to become the dominate ecosystem. which if this is true...they are doomed to prairies anyhow :)

i know that none of these are the exact answer but add em up and u get problems for all ecosystems and not just the forests!

froggy

I think that the threat of oak wilt may be overblown. Some seem to think that it's a native pathogen that is killing primarily stressed trees. Mine certainly aren't infected or if they are it's not bothering them. Ashes can get borers but it's usually not a problem unless you got too many trees. This can happen when a tree is overplanted as a street tree and bugs go from one to the next like dominos. Not sure about the hemlocks since I can't grow them here - soil is too dry, it's too windy, too much clay and it doesn't rain enough.

I recently attended a seminar on trees. The debate is raging as pertains to oak wilt but I believe it is spread through roots. Regarding the ash trees, I believe what you are referring to is emerald ash borer (Agrilus planipennis). This little bugger came from Asia and has destroyed in excess of 6 million ash to date. The issue as I see it with this little devil is that it is non discriminatory in that it appears to attacks all ash whether they be stressed or healthy. The native borers (ie- clear wing borer) only seem to go after severely weakened trees. It is said the emerald ash borer has the potential of virtually eliminating ash as a component of North American forests. Based on what little information I currently possess, I believe the eab will be in my area within 5 years wreaking havoc. To the best of my knowledge, there are no ash cultivars out there that are eab resistant. Economic and ecological impact will be every bit as severe in Illinois as it has been in Michigan and Ohio. The eab will take its toll on our ecosystem processes as well as our plant and animal communities. Sadly, the destruction of ash due to the existence of the eab may exceed the damage toll of both chestnut blight and Dutch elm disease if not contained.

I don't think it would be prudent to plant any type of ash right about now but I am with lycopus and feel the oak wilt might be overblown so you might want to consider planting oaks and perhaps you might even consider a few shagbark hickories and a few hazelnuts which are actually a large shrub. About the Beech trees, I hadn't heard anything but I sure would love to. Your questions would be welcomed in the tree forum where there is at least one entomologist who would be far better capable of validating your concerns than me.

Say Froggy... I am trying... you know what you said about the last time anybody heard of someone building a forest as opposed to cutting it down. I don't have a lot of land but I will be planting in excess of 1000 saplings this coming spring. Mostly hardwoods and many genotypes from my region. There are other people who live around me trying also thanks to the comments of people like you and lycopus.

Here is a link that might be useful: Emerald Ash Borer

Im familiar with the Emerald Ash Borer nearby here in Ohio. Unless contained by complete preemptive destruction of all available wild and domestic ash trees (read that as wiping out the species locally before the beetles get to them and reproduce), the genus Fraxinus in North America is doomed. No native ashes can survive an EAB attack. And few, if any, systemic insecticides appear to give any control. Consequently, the Ohio and Michigan horticultural trades are exceedingly alarmed. Their millions of dollars of horticultural ash tress are now effectively worthless as more and more commercial and institutional landscape purchasers are realizing that any installed ashes may be dead in five years or less.

Ohio agricultural officials are pulverizing ash trees around each area discovered with the beetle. But the new infestations keep growing, and in 2004 effort may be abandoned for lack of effectiveness. You can only spend so many millions of dollars in a useless effort.

This is far worse than Dutch elm disease, a fungal disease for which some American elms are resistant. No ash can survive the Emerald Ash Borer. And containment by destruction of the host ash trees as almost surely too little and too late. The bug hopped around nurseries and wild ash trees in SE Michigan for several years before anything was done. Too little, too late.

The only long term hope for Fraxinus in North America, as I see it now, is to collect ash seeds from still-healthy trees in each ecological region and habitat. Preserve these cryogenically in germplasm centers (if possible), and let the trees become extinct in the next 20 years. In fact, once seeds can be properly stored, it would then be best to assist the wipeout of the ash by spreading the beetles. Then, after all ashes are gone, the beetle will die out. The ash tree is the obligate host. No ashes, no Emerald Ash Borers. Then, plant new ash trees and start over Âuntil some horticulturalist brings in another Asian ash to start the whole thing over again.

(IsnÂt it too bad North America doesnÂt have any horticulturally acceptable plants? What would our landscapes look like if we only had native species? What would life be like without Austrian pines or Norway maples?)

Want to really stay awake tonight? Indeed, forget oak blight. ItÂs a non-issue, at least in the North where we donÂt have live oaks. ItÂs been around for centuries, and our oak ecosystems will survive that fungus.

But wait until the new sudden oak death fungus, Phytophthera remorum, gets out of California (as it will, probably in a containerized horticultural Rhododendron, where the fungus can live asymptomatically). If you thought Dutch elm was bad, check out SOD, sudden oak death. This newly-described fungus apparently kills every oak that it contacts. It resides quietly in Rododendrons and perhaps some other woody species, from which spores can easily infect nearby oaks. It apparently nails oaks in both the red and white sections of genus Quercus. It almost surely came into North America residing quietly in some Tibetan or Himalayan Rhododendron for the hort trade in California.

Oaks in North America, at least in large scale environments as weÂve known them, may disappear within the decade. The native landscapes that we know may soon disappear. The threats are real.

And need I mention the ominous menace of the Asian Long-horned Beetle. It eats and kills just about all hardwood trees. No effective controls exist.

Better take a few deep, contemplative breaths next time you walk through a North American deciduous forest. Your children may never have the chance.

Ecological globalization is such a wonderful concept.

There are people on Gardenweb who would flat out tell you that EAB and SOD are perfectly okay. It's mother nature doing what she does..blah, blah, blah. Change is constant, blah blah blah. Non-native invasive species are fine, blah, blah, blah. I'm not one of them, but I'm surprised no one has yet posted with this point of view.

Our Forest Trees are not dying from any specific fungus or insect. Our beloved trees are dying from the combined environmental affects of acid rain from various sources and increased levels of nitrous oxides, sulfur dioxide and ozone. Our trees are being predisposed to these various fungi and insects because they are being weakened. These acidic inputs leach calcium from trees and soils which mobilizes aluminum in the soil which kills the fine feeder roots on the trees.

nhcal,

I think you are making overly broad conclusions about tree health based on information that applies to relatively localized areas. You accurately describe the effects of acid precipitation on some tree species in the Appalachians and the Northeast (and perhaps some western high-altitude forests as well), but the insect and disease problems that were discussed earlier in this thread cannot be attributed to the same causes. Soil acidification is simply not an issue in the midwest, where the Emerald Ash Borer is doing most of its damage. I also have seen no mention of acid precipitation in connection is sudden oak death in California.

I do fear EAB but I think Sudden Oak Death might be as overhyped as the "killer bees" were back in the late 80s. What's killing oaks around here are mainly gypsy moths.

I don't think deciduous forests will disappear, I do think that oaks will give way to maples, however.

But the maples will be consumed by the Asian long-horned beetle. Check that one out. We might be left with mulberries and trees of heaven.

--John A. Blakeman

Read the book "The Dying of the Trees" by Charles Little, a famous ecologist, and all of your collective questions rearding the state of our trees will be answered.

Johnny46:

First of all, I'd recommend the reading of "The Dying of the Trees" by Charles E. Little. It's available at or through your public library or at amazon.com and other bookstore sources.

Here's the link to amazon.com so that you can read the customer reviews.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0140158723/qid=1130377398/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/104-7431889-9049510?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

2. For other knowledgeable sources of information, I'd contact the librarians at the Sterling Morton Library at the Morton Arboretum in Lisle, IL. I've been to this lovely arboretum more than several times and have been in the library and have also made use of the assistance of the librarians.

The main link is listed way below and several other links are given immediately below as well.

A Map of the Morton Arboretum - all 1,600 acres

http://www.mortonarb.org/maps/wholemap_rollovers.html

General Visitor Information

http://www.mortonarb.org/visitor_information/general_information.htm

The Sterling Morton Library

http://www.mortonarb.org/visitor_information/smlibrary/smlibrary.htm

The email address to the Sterling Morton Arboretum

library@mortonarb.org

Hope this is useful.

Bill