You might want to go to a larger pot, so you don't have to water so often and the plants have room to reach their full potential. I'm using pots that are 14" across and 12" deep, and I think most other folks here go larger than that. (I can go smaller because I'm in zone 3 so the plants won't ever get huge here anyway).

My suggestion would be visit the bakery in your local supermarket. The buckets that their icing comes in are perfect size for pepper plants and they usually they will give you them free!

Like buckets for drywall mud? - about 18" high? Those *are* big. I take it you punch drainage holes...

Hello DMF,
You should take a look at a another discussion on the forum, it's linked below. I know that many people have various forms of success with MG potting soil, but I would highly suggest building your own..if you are interested of course.

All plants will benefit from certain characteristics found in their growing mediums - for instance - structure, aeration, drainage, and nutrient retention. MG soils, although many swear by them, provide poor structure (they compress quickly), less than optimal aeration (particles too fine), and horrible drainage (water puddles on top - requires watering in sips). The 5-1-1 is superior in all of these categories, hands down. It's not as easy as opening a bag and dumping the contects into a pot...but it will pay off in spades.

Take a look =)

PJ

Here is a link that might be useful: 5-1-1

Thanks for the link! That is a fascinating exchange. I'm on the side of the guy that doesn't want to invest in his own mix - for various reasons. (E.g., I don't see a real problem with water take-up: the stuff isn't a sponge but it takes up readily enough.)

There's a couple thing I think I've gotten from the conversation. See what you think:

1) Go deep using the MG-type medium. It will keep any perched water table well down and away from the main root mass.

2) Build a large-particle drainage layer at the bottom - something like pea gravel. (I got this from my mother, who undoubtedly got it from her grandmother, and have often wondered if there was a basis beyond being an "old wives tale". ;) )

Also, is there an easy mod to make to the MG stuff before potting, like adding some relatively large particulate?

Dennis

Dennis - 1) True. Deep buckets will allow for more room for the roots before they hit the perched water table.

But, if you "right size" the pot and are careful with the water, the roots will grow into it and soak up water quick enough that you don't have the problem of a PWT. Progressively potting up can help rather than going from a 4" pot to a 5 gal one.

I have experienced the PWT problem first hand. Not always, but, from time to time. Last year, I even down-potted a couple plants because I was having issues (went from 4" to 7 gal pots - ie - didn't follow my own advise). :-)

2) I believe I have read that the difference in porosity will simply move the PWT to a higher point in the container. The 'old wives tale' appears to be just that.

That is a very good observation regarding the perched water table, you are absolutely correct. The perched water table in a medium will be exactly the same regardless of pot size or configuration, so a tall deep pot will mitigate the perch much better than a wide shallow pot.

DO NOT create a drainage layer though. It IS an old wives tale, and does more harm than good. A drastic change in particle size and composition tends to make water perch at the transition, thus decreasing the inhabitable soil volume of the pot. In essence, it raises the bottom of the pot, and that all. In fact, the perched water table will be EXACTLY the same, with or without the drainage layer - it's absolutley useless.

The problem with adding large particulate to something like MG, is this: Perched water is a function of average particle size. The average particle size of MG is very small...very small. To add enough larger particulate to bring the average particle size to an ideal level - you would only be using 20-30% MG. At that point you've built your own soil, so what's the point...just make a 5-1-1 ;)

Now, water uptake is not the only benefit of something like the 5-1-1. Take for instance gas exchange. All roots need to exchange CO2 and oxygen to respirate and carry on photsynthesis. A good analogy for the amount of oxygen present in the 2 subject mediums would be a cup of sand vs a cup of BB's. There will be very little space between the particles of sand, while there will be much more space in the bb's. In a conatainer medium, this extra space will allow for more oxygen in the root zone, thus advocating far greater respiration and exchange.

Structure is another benefit. Your plants roots will be able to move freely though the bb's, with very little impedance, and the bb's will not compress readily once they've settled. The sand, however, will compress more and more over time, thus impeding root movement, respiration, and functionality.

I'm not trying to convince you, just inform you. If you are happy with what you are doing, by all means, continue doing it. If you are interested in trying out something new and exciting, I - and a few other believers - would be happy to assist. =)

PJ

Hey sheets,
Your post wasn't up when I started. Howdy!

Dennis,
sheets is right, in that, by progressivly potting up and monitoring your watering - you may be able to avoid PWT problems with the MG medium, although you will not fix the lack of structure or aeration by doing this.

Yet another benefit of the 5-1-1 is that it requires no potting up, none, zero. You can go from a 4" to a 7 gal with no root problems. This obviously saves you, and more importantly saves the plant, the invasive disruption of potting up 2, 3, 4 times during the growing season.

PJ

When MG is stated is it generalized? They have different products. Even though I will be moving to the 5-1-1 Mix next season. I have been satisfied the past three years using MG Orchid mix with MG organic soil mixing each 1/2 & 1/2. I posted a link to my previous post on GW look at the soil texture in the first pic and when I water in a few seconds it's coming out the bottom very well draining. Though MG organic soil by its self will compact like a solid rock. I ran out of Orchid mix so one pot got mostly soil and the plant is not doing as well as the others for sure (plant size and fruit size small) and soil has to be watered a few times because it does pool at the top.�

Here is a link that might be useful: RedHab

Yah. I don't use MG Organic Soil precisely because it compacts so heavily. I'm using (and talking about) MG Potting Soil which feels lighter. I haven't tried the Orchid mix.

Perhaps my moisture probe effectively aerates the pots? I use a double-prong probe maybe twice a week. Leaves tell me about under-watering; the probe about over-watering.

I looked at the video for the double-bucket method. Pretty slick! But the buckets are awfully big. I think I'll try it with one plant - probably the hab when it gets big enough. It's still in a 5" pot yet looking very frisky.

Anyone mulch their pots? I've been using pine bark nuggets. Definitely cuts down on evaporation. I'm thinking now that weed cloth under the bark might make sense.

Let me be more precise. I am using MG "Moisture Control Potting Mix" (or was: I just ran out.)

The main pots are closer to 10" than the stated 8, but the soil depth is only 5-6" with tapered sides. I re-potted the big mammoth jalapeno, the cubanelle, and the cowhorn tonight. First I took the large fruit to avoid damage.

The jalapeno was a little rootbound and went into a 12" double-bottom pot. The other two went into standard 10" black nursery pots. I loosened the root balls a bit. All three were heavily fruited and had no blooms. I mixed Osmocote slow release pellets into the new medium, most of which was re-used from annuals (primarily basil). Topped with pine bark mini-nugget mulch (no week cloth). Watered them in.

We'll see what happens. I suspect that they're going to be happy.

Dennis

Ummm got me thinking, what is in my MG Orchid mix. Bark, perlite, filler maybe peat Moss, maybe some soil, some slow release beads of MG ferts. Metals Arsenic? Why would this be used? It's not listed on the bag anywhere but what is listed in tiny print all the way at the bottom is, content info levels and metals https://www.regulatory-info-sc.com and then I found the MG Orchid mix and provided the link below.

I did not know, now for sure 5-1-1 Mix just for the fact I want to know what's included in my soil for plants that I will be eating from. I should not have to go on a wikifari/surfari just to know, it should be all listed on the bag.

Don't care if it's ok to some in small doses or used as a pesticide, if I want it then I will add it.

Ok guess I am done

Here is a link that might be useful: Arsenic?

The MG MCPM that I'm using has twice that, plus 21 ppm Lead. Good thing we're not eating it.

Hmm. I wonder if they're testing for absolute quantities, or for potentially active quantities. Some of these thing form relatively inert compounds.

But we're getting off topic...

As tempting as the moisture control stuff is, don't buy it. It keeps the soil TOO moist for peppers, they like to dry out quite a bit.

My experience with container growing peppers in large containers (25+ gallon tree pots) is that they will fill pretty much any volume of container with roots. They don't make taproots or anything like that, but they will make just this big thick amorphous blob of roots going in every direction. So, get the biggest containers you have room for, they will happily fill anything you get.

For watering, I use the wilt method. Just wait until you see the leaves start to wilt a little bit (in the evening) and then give them a good soak. Generally that means days or even a week plus between watering, unless its really hot out.

Just don't be confused by noon-day wilting, as even a well watered pepper will droop a bit at noon to reduce the surface area presented to a hot sun.

Another method is the dowel method. Hit a hardware store for wooden dowels (any diameter will do), cut it into sections about a foot long, and stick them in the soil. When you go to water, pull them out and look. If they're dark and damp, the plant is fine and does not need water. If they're dry and light colored, time to water.

I just replanted two of three from a mere 8" flower pot into 5 gallon pots. Even though flowering has occured on one of the plants, I decided to move them anyway. Yellowing leaves told me that they weren't happy in the cramped area.

I believe they will re-establish quickly, because they seem quite hardy and I didn't disturb the core root ball on either very much.

The third I just let it remain in the 8", since it was bullied by the larger plants sharing the pot and didn't need all the space for the size.

I got some new MG MCPM (I'm happy with it) and re-potted the weaker jalapeno (pictured in the Burnt leaves thread nearby) and the cayenne the other night. Cayenne had most of its fruit on - including the largest cayenne pepper I've ever seen - and nothing dropped. Watered them in and I'm going to let everybody dry out before I water again.

Loosened the root ball of all but the jalapenos: just squeezed it some to get it to loosen up. You could tell they were held together by the root, not by compaction.

The hab and the serrano are in 5" pots and they dry out quickly. I think I'll up-pot them tonight.

So far everybody is happy!

Re-potted the new hab and serrano. Both have been getting full sun. The serrano was already about 16" tall, though kinda spindly, and had set fruit. Although it had only been in its 5" pot for about a week it was already showing signs of cramped rootage!

Now another week on, the serrano is still happy with tiny fruits and more flowers. The hab is growing like a weed, but no flowers yet.

Re-potting project successfully concluded (including most of the container herbs).

Get rid of the moisture control mix, it's even worse the standard MG soil. Use 5:1:1 in 3-5 gallon pots, and you can't go wrong. It's very easy to make, very forgiving, and is much cheaper then premixes.

Peppers tend to form a root ball in all directions, so a pot that is as similar in width and depth works well.

Everybody is happy with bigger shoes !! Garden is a nice as I've seen it. (The foot of rain we've had recently doesn't hurt.)

A month later the new serrano has filled out some and is producing well. There must be twenty pods on it.

The new habanero is going ape$#!t. I had to re-pot again, and finally move it out of the Follow-the-Sun Wagon because it was overshadowing everything but the big jalapeno tree. Yes, it is blooming, but no pods of any size yet.

I'm going to have to re-pot it again, I don't doubt. Fortunately I have no shortage of large containers - it was the ones that fit in the wagon that were hard to come by.

And on the subject of containers, I went to the grocery store bakeries asking for the frosting tubs. I guess demand has been high because "they no longer give them out". (Probably throw them away...)

I agree about the bigger pot size. I had this plant in a #2 pot until I realized I would be having a lot of pod drop if I did not re-pot soon. It is now in a 5 gal bucket doing nice.

{{gwi:26692}}

DM - most any restaurant / fast food place would be a good place to ask. I don't remember what they used it for (pickles maybe...), but, I got one from a chain sandwich shop I grab lunch at frequently.

Yup, if you have a Firehouse Subs in your area, they sell Firehouse 5 gallon buckets for something like $2 each.

Nothing says fun like growing a nuclear in a firehouse bucket.

Hhahaha, I have heard that Walmart throw them out all the time. They use them in the deli a lot from what I understand. Home Depot sells them for under $3 each. A pretty inexpensive alternative to $10 plus containers in the garden centers.
Bruce

You can also order them from Home Depot.com. 10 for $30 and they'll mail them for free. I like the fact that they're white, so you can place them in full sun and not worry about the pot heating up too much.

Here is a link that might be useful: 5 Gallon White Buckets

The white color is fine this time of year but early in the season, it is better to have darker colored buckets. It is a trade off I guess. They do sell the orange ones also...kind of a middle of the road solution.
Bruce