Thanks for the heads-up AgastacheMan,

And while we are on the subject of wreck-less and less than honorable nursery men I have a doosy of a story + a warning for anyone who is contemplating ordering huge 65 to 100 year old Olive trees from a scam artist out of Visalia CA.
Buyers beware of a salesman named Bob Hern who is misrepresenting the ranch lands that these trees are being harvested from. He does not have the rights nor the equipment to deliver the goods.

We should probably have a general " Alert " thread .

www.gardenwatchdog.com is a pretty good place to post and get alerts on Nursery businesses, both good and bad.

jb

Well said PP - I have never heard anything (majorly) negative about North Creek, or it's staff. We don't buy from them (you know why, PP), but they have a solid reputation in the industry. Let's face it, in our industry, s**t sometimes happens: seed doesn't germinate, plants are over/under watered, sun doesn't shine when it is supposed to, you get a moron Ag inspector who barely knows "green side up", etc., etc., etc.. Given crop times on some things, they can't be replaced at the drop of a hat. We are expected to just pull plants out of our you-know-what when customers wait until the last second to place an order, then act surprised when you can't fill orders for their ship date, or are sold out of something. You hit the nail on the head when you said that shipping into CA is a nightmare. It actually cracks me up when I visit greenhouses in CA, and see all of the open air production....and they are worried about other states shipping insects into CA?! Not saying that any of this contributed to Agastache Man's difficulties with NC, but I'm sure that NC has a different slant on what happened.

I have no knowledge of the vendor at issue, so no comment there, but I too would wonder at the reasoning of having plants shipped from the east coast to the west. I sell only finished containers and only in very rare cases do I grow something on so my dealing with plugs and liners is limited. However, as PP has pointed out, there are SO many quality growers located on the west coast it seems extremely unnecessary to involve all the issues pertaining to transporting live plants across country, to say nothing about dealing with the very stringent regulations of importing plant material into California. All that aside, just freight costs and gas surcharges - bad enough with local vendors - would be reason enough to deal with someone more regional. It's not like the west coast is suffering for plant selection - just the opposite - many new intros originate here and even those that do not are pretty widely available from local licensed growers.

I reviewed Northcreek's availability listing and there is nothing they list I cannot obtain readily from a local source.

thanks Jenny, for your post. Knowing the kind of person that Dale Hendricks is, I just can't imagine NC purposely taking those kind of tactics with a customer. And you are right, s**t does happen in this industry!!!!

and gardengal, you are right - freight costs, gas, transportation - these are all beginning to seriously affect the horticulture industry, and I think all of us have to seriously look at our vendors and how far plants need to be shipped to get to our location. I feel in the next 10 years, the nursery industry will become far more 'regionalized' than it has been in the last ten years. Thanks for your insightful comments. I feel better this morning!
PP

Who saw this thread coming? I sure did and my 1st thought was this is a bad idea....
That's one of the problems with the internet. You can say what you want with out any restrictions.

I'm sure there are two sides to the story and in the heat of the moment the story twist and turns.

Slamming on the net is here to stay, sad as it may be.
Bottom line is companies don't stay in business and bad companies. (please no examples)

I think these threads can be very valuable. What we've learned is that agastacheman's experience is likely a one time occurence, possibly a simple misunderstanding.

On the gardenwatchdog you get to hear from all types of people. Some clearly have an axe to grind or are obviously hard to please. When you get enough replies you get a chance to judge for yourself. But most are just people taht had either a positive or negative experience. Some of the vendors even use it to contact unhappy customers adn try to find out wht happened and make it right.

There are companies that one person rips and 50 others praise, while others get 50 rips and 1 positive. Very educational.

jb

oooooh, did I hit a nerve. Especially with perennial princess....maybe she is closer to the owners than we think. My oppposition first off was a correct one, so take that to the bank. Second, the ag department here is not horrible like you say, and being you are not from here, I would say to you, you have no fuel for the arguement. My biggest complaint with Northcreek is that the sales and coordinator for communication to the shipping department, gave me the runaround with the excuse with the usda and ag department being the problem, then it was the shipping department problem. Then after 3 weeks of saying the order is being delayed again, she actually informed me that my order was being shipped on this day, and that it would reach me in 4 days. After giving me the "go" on the shipping, and providing that the plants went through and passed inspection, the 7th day approached. No plants, no phone call, no professional courtesy of informing me there was another problem. So, call it you will, but if you say that your product is having problems, then the problem is fixed, and you guarantee that you shipped it, then it doesn't reach you because "THE COMPANY DID NOT LIVE UP TO THEIR PROFESSIONAL MATTER OF CONDUCTION" about your order, then "I HAVE THE PURPOSE, POWER, AND PREROGATIVE TO OPINONATE MY FEELINGS ABOUT THE MATTER!". Oh ya, you can quote me on that....even if you know the owners personally, if you watch their dog occasionally, if you are against negative feedback on the net, if you don't like the response I had or others will have, or if you question a persons purpose because he/she experienced ill-prepared business ethics exhibited by a lie given by a "well liked business" and is both e-commerce and a professional institute of horticulture. Well, if you don't like the internet, don't use it. Don't reply to a post if you don't want the answer that is given. Thank you and have a better times with internet companies......

While I am not an advocate of censorship in internet forums, I don't think that this is the place to make unsubstantiated allegations against a business or individual. I think most people would look at Agastachemans's inarticulate ramblings and draw their own conclusions. Let's hope that this thread dies a quick death.

Any difficulty I have ever had with a wholesale supplier has been handled by direct contact with said supplier. It certainly seems a more efficient and satisfactory approach - not to mention more professional - than badmouthing them on a public forum. I'd hope most other professionals would reserve judgement until they were presented with both sides of the dispute, but I'd agree this is not the medium to present it. The Garden Watchdog to my understanding is for ratings/comments on retail mail order sources, but perhaps there is a similar sounding board/rating system for wholesalers as well.

I am still confused as to the rationale for obtaining plants from across the country when it would be far easier and less frustrating or expensive to obtain them only a truck drive away.

You go AgastacheMan and articulate/assert ALL your amendment rights .

I found Agastacheman's post to be quite articulate. He expressed quite clearly the problem he had with the nursery, and he has every right to express his opinion based on his personal experience.

For those who have had positive experience with the nursery, that is great. But remember that even the best facilities (and owners) can have a weak link in one of their employees. The rest of the staff might be top notch, but the person who should have been forthcoming and honest about any internal delays apparently was the weak link in Agastacheman's transaction, and spoiled the reputation of the rest of the nursery for him.

Please don't be so quick to jump on someone and scourge him simply because he or she was first-hand witness to a bad business practice in a company that may otherwise have a sterling rep. Northcreek owners may be appreciative to know that their sales coordinator is not performing up to their high standards, and would replace him/her if they knew about this incident.

Conversely, I'd ask Agastacheman to consider the above, and that his negative experience may have been the work of one employee lacking integrity and professionalism. The thing to do is to report him/her to Northcreek's top brass.

I agree Agastacheman's post was articulate and to the point and that he has the right to express his views. That's why we live in the US. I would think he addressed it with Northcreek, and now is making his feelings known to the rest of us, and I took it just a beware, not that this is a horrible company all around. I personaly know they are not a bad company.

I wish there was some forum to rate some of the wholesale companies. I have had 98% good luck, the companies are good, that's how they stay in business. But boy, I wish I had known about the other 2%.

I do object to people telling Agastacheman he should be buying on the west coast. Where he buys from is his business. It seems he took into account what he needed to do to get plants shipped to the west coast.

Maybe there was something his supplier on the west coast didn't have. Northcreek has some of their own plants that may not be readily available elsewhere. Amongst other things, I ordered Eupatorium 'Carin' from them this year. It's one of their new plants, and I have never seen it elsewhere.

And, I order from the west coast, and live on the east coast. I sure don't want anyone telling me I can't order from Terra Nova.

Polly

Well....I would be willing to bet this thread gets "Spiked" very soon!

I have nothing but postive experiences with North Creek in the last 10 years.

I think it is a very bad idea to badmouth companies on forum boards. I know of a very well publicized case where several people on a forum were sued for slander by the owner of an internet business because they badmouthed him publically.

It might seem ridiculous but all of those people went through great hassle and expense dealing with it. All because they were venting in a public place. I personally wouldn't risk it. If I had a really bad experience I would just tell friends privately in person or via private e-mail.