Decobug, it has to be shown as a Hybrid Bracteata (HBc). See Ron Schwerdt's list of Vicrotians.

Here is a link that might be useful: 2004 OGR Victorian Rose List

So, even though it was introduced in 2003, it can still be in the HBc class. It would be eligible for a "Victorian Award", which is for OGRs that are in existence in or after 1867. "Dowager Queen" is the award for roses in existence before 1867.

The first breakdown among roses is to decide if they are a Species, an OGR, or a Modern rose. Oversimplified, species roses are those that come true from seeds. Old Garden Roses are classes of hybrid roses that were in existence prior to 1867 and that don't come true from seed. Modern Roses are classes of hybrid roses that first came into existence in 1867 or later and don't come true from seed. Since the Hybrid Bracteata (HBc) class was in existence prior to 1867, all members of the class are considered OGRs regardless of their individual introduction dates. Ralph Moore has introduced several HBc cultivars in recent years, including Amber Gem. Since these individual cultivars were introduced after 1867, they must be shown in the Victorian Class of the OGR section at shows.

If you have a copy of a recent ARS Handbook for Selecting Roses, you can look in the front of the book to see the classes all laid out. In the last couple of years this has appeared on page 6. There you can see which classes are OGRs and which are Moderns.

By the way, for some reason the 2004 Official List has listed all the Ralph Moore HBcs as Shrubs. It has been announced that this is an error and that they are in fact HBc cultivars and must be shown as such.

Well that's nuts... :)

An OGR after 1867 which of course looks nothing like an OGR... and won't have a prayer of winning in that category - Okey dokey...

Guess I can always stick it in an arrangement :)

So Ralph took the species R. Bracteata - created a mini version, and used that rose to create other minis (i.e. Out of Yesteryear)

How many generations away from the first cross can someone keep claiming that it it an Hb? To make Amber Gem was that Hb and then a lot of other minis... (just curious)

The initial classification of a new rose is always up to the hybridizer/introducer. The ARS, on rare occasions, might ask if they are sure that is what it is, but the decision is pretty much up to the hybridizer. Ralph Moore is certainly a respected breeder and his opinion counts for a great deal when he registers his new roses. If he feels Hybrid Bracteata is the correct classification, no one is likely to challenge him. After all, he knows far more about the breeding lines that led to the rose than anyone else.

We should also remember that hybridizers seldom take exhibition issues into consideration when classifying their roses. They are interested in selling to the general public since that is where their greatest sales come from. We have seen the same thing with cultivars like Traviata, a wonderful shrub rose that Meilland has classed as a hybrid tea. They did so because they wanted the public to know how the plant would grow, and they weren't at all concerned that it had no chance to win in a rose show as a HT.

At a later date someone can always appeal to the Classification Committee to see if they feel the class should be changed. If you wish to do so, you can contact Dr. Tony Liberta and spell out your reasons for feeling the class of Amber Gem should be changed.

Nah... Was just curious...

That does explain a lot though, once realizing that it is the hybridizer that says what it is and what color it is etc... (Like claiming that knockout or The Prince are RED) etc...

My first exhibition went good, had a nice time, was surprised by how friendly everyone was... Got a certificate for best Hybrid Tea Spray, with one of my favorites; Chicago Peace... Used Amber Gem in an arrangement with other like colored roses...

Thanks again for the help :)

Jeannie

Jeannie, congratulations! Welcome to exhibiting, if you thought growing roses was addictive, just wait... 8-))