For clematis, the best vines I have are by rain down spouts, they are easily twice the size of the vines that are not. I suspect, but don't have much proof, that it's winter moisture that they lack around here. Clematis take 3 years to get well established, and I would take the time, in the first two years, to water them with a gallon bucket or so of compost tea every week - 10 days. By year 3, the root mass, which can be enormous, should be fairly well established.

I am trying some new watering techniques this year. I don't have a sprinkler system around my garden and last year it got kind of old watering every single plant by hand with the hose.

Last year in the heat of summer I was watering the vegetable garden every other day but this year I'm going to try and see how little I can get away with. To keep the moisture in, I'm going to cover the beds with newspaper and mulch really deep about six inches. I've been collecting bags of leaves and pine needles from around the neighborhood like a bag lady for this purpose.

For my tomatoes and squash plants I'm going to bury plastic milk gallon jugs next to each plant with pin holes on either side. I was advised to put a stick in the jug so you can find them when the plants get bigger. I'm thinking I'll need to fill the jugs once a week?

I bought a 4 way splitter for my water spout and so...

For my raised vegetable beds I bought soaker hose and am laying those out with a quick connect attachment on the ends so that when I want to water a bed, I just have to attach my hose that also has the quick connect and leave it for a while.

I'm going to do the same thing with the quick release attachment on a drip system for the strawberry and raspberry plants.

I also need to figure out a way to direct the water from my downspouts to planting beds around the perimeter of the house.

If I ever go on vacation noone will be able to figure out how I've rigged it all up though!

Charlene, I can help you with one of your problems. "I also need to figure out a way to direct the water from my downspouts to planting beds around the perimeter of the house." Simple, French Drain. There are perferated and non-perferated as well as the attachments for all the downspouts. There is also "sock" french drain which is just that the drain has cloth over the perferations so soil will not get in. If you can't find it, let me know, I will order some in for you. Home Depot should carry it. It all comes in 100 foot rolls, Depot might sell it by the foot and it is really easy to cut with a knife. Plus you bury the stuff and mever have to look at it again. Truly awesome stuff. I think the 100 roll only weighs about 10 pounds, really light.
Holler at me Friday, I will be happy to tell you anything else about it. I have to order some for my house too.
I plan on burying it all around my veggie garden where I plan to put berries.

B

PS Charlene, did you ever get "the list"?

David, Thank you for your post. I think compost tea is out of my league at the moment. I looked it up, and it seems quite complicated and time consuming to make. I did buy some organic rose food for these last fall, though, and recently bought some composted manure as was recommended on the clematis forum. How often do you water your clems?

Charlene, I used to water every single plant by hand, too, but last year bought some of those sprinklers on a hose and a soaker hose, which helps a lot. Sounds like you are being very ingenious. . .

Oh dear, I should qualify that the 'compost tea' we make around here is done by filling a 3 gal bucket about half way with compost, and then filling it the rest of the way with water, and then leaving it overnight to soak. Then just pour the whole thing around the roots. In the higher realms of Compost Tea, strong opinions and complicated methods abound, but some of us think a lot of that is kinda silly.

When I start my clematis, I usually water them once a week for the first year, and then by the second year, I'm down to once every two weeks or so.

And, I'm rather excited, I found two baby clematis vines in a rose bed outside the greenhouse door, where I probably threw out some starts I tried years ago and I thought were long dead. At least I think they're clematis. Same leaf, same vine structure, and I'll wait and see if they bloom.

David, oh thank goodness--I think I can handle making that kind of tea. I imagine I can use the steer manure compost I bought (it was recommended as being real good for clems).

Congrats on your babies! How exciting (as long as they're not bindweed!!--I just thought of that, because they have pretty little leaves, too, but I'm sure you would know the difference! When I bought my first house about fourteen years ago, I didn't know what bindweed was and thought it was pretty--boy was it hard to get rid of by the time I figured out it was not my friend).

Arrrgh. Watering. I haul water from town all summer for my gardens because our well just can't handle much more than normal household use.

I use buried milk jugs and ollas (when I can afford them). I think they work pretty well for non-xeric stuff, and have found them especially effective in my shady flower beds.

Shredded redwood mulch--at least 2 inches thick--is indispensible for me. Since I started using it my need to water has been dramatically reduced.

In the worst of the summer I water my gardens twice a week, a good, deep, soaking using a hand wand or watering can directly on the plant area. But I always use a water/moisture tester to make sure I really need to, and that I have watered deep enough.

When it is hot, windy and dry up here a sprinkler is just a waste of good water.

I water once a week when there's no rain. I'm going to try to stretch it to once every eight days this summer, although that'll take some extra work since the timer is a 7 day timer. But I'm hoping to stress the KBG a little to give the wheatgrasses a chance to take over more. I may try to stop watering at the beginning of August to stress the KBG even more, then water well, aerate and overseed with streambank wheatgrass and sheep fescue.

Maybe next summer, I'll get by watering every other week.

Coloradobird, thanks for posting this thread.

Billie, thanks for the downspout tips. I'll check out Home Depot. The list you are talking about? Plant list for the Spring Swap? If you have a plant list maybe you can post on the Spring Swap thread?

Wishccr: You really love gardening to haul water from town! I would too :) We are also on a well. How do you know if you're using more than the well can handle?

Bp-Last year I didn't water my KBG at all. It got kind of ugly in June but then greened up quickly when the rains began midsummer. I'll see what I can get away with again.

"Bp-Last year I didn't water my KBG at all. It got kind of ugly in June but then greened up quickly when the rains began midsummer. I'll see what I can get away with again."

If we don't get late spring or early fall snows, we can only count on about 4-6 inches of precipitation between May and September. We don't get those midsummer rains. I usually wait until June to water, but this year I started watering last week (two weeks later than most of my neighbors, who have been watering daily ever since).

I forgot to mention earlier that I water daily from 7/2 through 7/5 and from 7/22 through 7/25 due to fireworks danger. I will probably continue to do that even after my lawn is mostly native.

Singcharlene, we ran it dry a time or two, and the well took a couple of days to recover. We have an 800 gallon reserve tank, but our well only pumps 11 gallons of water per hour. In the summer with kids home and washing clothes, etc., it can be dicey if I try to water with it, too. We're actually pretty lucky, a lot of our neighbors have spent 10s of thousands on wells, drilling, and fracturing and still only have trickles.

Just a side note re hauling water, in this part of the country quite a few folks haul all their water, domestic as well as garden, using either a big plastic drum in the back of a pickup, or with a trailer. There are hundreds of folks who do this. Originally, back in the '20s, the cooperative water company came around and asked every farm to pay a certain amount if they wanted to get hooked up, some folks did and some folks didn't, and they were passed by. Now, it isn't cost effective for the water company to run a mile or two of pipe for one house.

This leads to some interesting gardening techniques, with deep trenches and heavy mulches.

Even further off topic is how the availability of a nearby water main makes the land triple or quadruple in value, and some of the boys on the board of Directors of the water company have come under scrutiny for building an 8" main waaaaaay out thatta way.

Coloradobird, you are asking about perennial plants but the general question on watering is of huge concern to me. It is very simply the most important limiting factor in my gardens.

With an arid climate (we've received all of 1/10th of an inch of rain so far in May) and very porous soil full of gravel, I've got to really pay attention to water needs. I have a feeling that I could throw a hose down on the ground in my gardens, run it full pressure all day and never make anything larger than a 5 or 6 foot wide puddle.

The gardens are irrigated with overhead sprinklers - not the best choice but there's a need to cover a lot of square feet and the sprinklers are what are available. Here's what I do in the annual gardens (flowers & veggies).

Right now, the plants are very small and require water more often but less deeply. Further, the temperatures haven't been consistently warm and drying yet. Later, when the plants are large and day after day of hot weather increase water needs, I'll error on the side of a little more water. But, right now I have just moved into "the schedule" that will be maintained thru most of the growing season.

I believe that it would be best for me to irrigate 3 times each week but I've only got 2 days available. My intent is to put 1 1/2 inches of water down on the ground weekly - so I'm shooting for 3/4th of an inch each time. And, I have measured with tuna fish cans placed at various distances from the sprinklers and gathered some ideas on the time required to fill them 3/4th of an inch.

As I say, I believe it would be better to put one-half an inch down 3 times each week. I'm not sure if there would be evaporation issues at that rate - throwing a little water on hot soil amounts to very little for the plant roots. But, I will sometimes run the sprinklers this little if we've been blessed with some rain.

During very hot weather, I may push this on to an inch of water twice a week and wind, well, wind interferes mightily with my efforts. Sprinkler placement and trying to avoid the windiest hours of the day is my best defense.

DigitSteve

And, don't hold it against me folks. I am not a water spendthrift and the dry corners in the garden will attest to that. The larger gardens are in a water district. Property owners pay a minimum every year based on acreage no matter if they use irrigation or not.

Only once in eleven years have I had to pay an overcharge - I believe it was $17. Perhaps, the residents and I have been conserving water better than the water district expects. Whatever the case, altho' there's precious little rainfall, lots of Summer-time heat, and plenty of wind, the aquifer beneath all this gravel is superb.

D'S'

Thanks for the posts, all.

I agree wishccr, mulch is essential in the perennial beds. I know I'd use a lot more water without it.

I think once a week for the drier perennial beds would be about right, which is what I was doing last summer, and adding a second soaking when it's really, really hot. About 20 minutes under the sprinklers, I guess (does that sound about right?). I used to water the individual plants by hand, but it got to be too much, even though I have a small yard, I have a lot of plants crammed in there.

I think I'll have to water the shady bed twice a week.

It took me a minute to figure out what KBG was. ;)

Thanks again for your posts.

Sprinklers can vary a lot, so to see how long you need to water, measure it a few times. Water at least an inch at a time for it to be really effective. Either buy a cheap rain gauge, or use the tuna can method like Digit does. Place the gauge or the can about halfway out from the sprinkler and then water until you have an inch either in the gauge or the can. If your sprinkler puts down a lot of water at a time, it will probably be more effective to water a half an inch, then wait a half an hour or so for the first water to soak in well, then water the other half inch. If your sprinkler waters "slowly," do it all at once. If its perennials youÂre watering, watch them closely at first to decide when they need it. If some of them are starting to wilt a little when theyÂre in hot sun, wait till theyÂre in the shade again and if they perk up quickly, theyÂre still wet enough. ItÂs not unusual for xeric plants to wilt a little when they get hot (it helps them conserve water). I have the darndest time not overwatering my purple coneflower, Âcause it wilts some almost every day when itÂs hotÂand I always want to "help" it! :-) But then the sun moves over and itÂs fineÂday after day. If your plants are wilting but not perking up pretty quickly when they cool a bit, they probably really do need water. If you watch closely for a few weeks, youÂll have a pretty good idea of how long you can wait between waterings.

For grass, I have pure KBG, and even when itÂs HOT, I usually water less often than once a week. I have a sprinkler system, but I always turn it on manually so I can control how often and how much I water. And since this is the first house where IÂve had a sprinkler, it still seems too easy to just run down in the basement and turn it on whenever. Compared to dragging a hose aroundÂoh, my! I do water about an inch and a half when I do water, and I split it so it can soak in really well (I also water the grass after the sunÂs down). By watering deeplyÂbut not too oftenÂyour grass and plants (not annuals) will develop deep roots and eventually be able to go longer between waterings. By watering more often, the roots never need to grow deep because they have a constant source of water right where they are. Back during our first (in my lifetime!) drought here in Denver in the mid 70's, many, many, many people who had been watering 5 minutes every day, or 10 minutes every other day, completely lost their entire lawns when watering restriction were imposed. I lived up in olde Denver (Park Hill) and it was really sad to drive around and see all the dead (not dormant) lawns. People were devastated. And it was the people who always had the lush, green lawns, and they thought they were doing everything right.

Also, watering with a sprinkler is much more effective than hand watering, because hand watering usually puts the water down too quickly and with our clay soils it tends to run off before it can really soak in deeply--or it soaks in unevenly. And since the water tends to pool on the surface when you put it down quickly, it looks like youÂve watered well when you really havenÂt. Hand watering can be pretty effective to "reinforce" a deep watering by basically wetting down the mulch to help keep the deeper water from evaporating quite as quickly. Wetting down the mulch can also help cool the soil somewhat by evaporation.

Happy watering,
Skybird

I was wondering this weekend why most people water in the early morning rather than sundown? By the time the sun is up in the summmer, everything seems dry as heck even after watering around 4 am. So, what time do most of you water?

Last year my son updated the old sprinkler system. I am computer controlled at a cost of $40. Wasn't into this when he suggested it, but has been a welcomed addition at a minimal cost. Has a USB connection to program at the PC, then take to the yard unit and it sets all up. It also looks at the weather report for my zip and flags me to change the schedule accordingly.

The milk jug idea is something I've never tried and sounds encouraging for tomatoes/squash/strawberries. How deep do you plant the jugs? Do you fill with water or let the watering system do it? Son also ran a drip system from one of the sprinkler heads to this area. I have never been into drip systems, they always seem to need a constant attention due to clogging. But will try it this year and thankful for his help.

Have never put a cover mulch down, perhaps this is the year. Would certainly help the plants retain moisture and solve my issue with muddy dog paws.

I also have a couple of large plastic barrels in the veg. garden to catch rain. Know this is against the law in some areas, haven't checked here. And (put up with me here) the two dogs have a small wading pool which I use the water from when changing out during the summer for areas nearby.

The last drought I lived in Parker. My entire back was xeriscape and I was really careful about watering, being a good water user and not wanting to pay the price. It really irked me when those that were fined for using an overage that summer got their money back the next year. Never did figure that out. I would have thought those of us that made the effort would have been rewarded.

I should post a pic of what goes on here when planting. My youngest dog always plants a ball in any hole dug, it becomes very irritating. He never fails and looks at me like "maybe these will grow too". He is also a total mess from the mud/water....am grateful he doesn't dig, but could sure use some help in this area at times.

Most folks water early (before or at sunrise) as that is, usually, when the atmosphere is closest to the dew point, and the evaporation is at its least, which gives the water a chance to soak in.

In the drought of '02, I saved my trees and shrubs by putting down a 4 - 6" layer of mulch; anything I could get my hands on, newspaper, cardboard, bark, wood shavings, sawdust, compost, leaves, grass clippings, and so on, going out from the trunk to the drip line. My grass stayed dormant most the summer that year.

I guess I am fortunate that my well is in a really great aquifer. The only time we had a problem was when we had a new "City Slicker" (not sure where he is from) move into the neighborhood. He planted something like 400 seedling trees and hooked up a drip system to them. He left it on 24/7 for about a month. We started having water problems and the county started talking about metering wells. I was against it, except for the fact that that neighbor would have to pay for all of my water he was wasting. I think he moved, but I only have a pond now after really good rain storms and it is dry in a week.

Anyway, I use the water from my washer to water trees and anything that we don't eat. I also use the duck pond water (I have to drain it from time to time) and the stock tank water to water the dry patches of prairie grass in the pasture. I am hoping, in-between all the projects, to put in tanks to store the run-off from the house and barn roofs. I can get about 50 55-gallon drums if I will drive up into the mountains to collect them. I just need to figure the exacts on putting it all together.

As far as the compost tea, I collected the 5-gallon buckets from the grocery store bakery. Put holes in the outside edges and fill half full with compost. I put one bucket in the middle of each 4 foot raised bed and then when I watered, I would fill the bucket full of water twice a night. I thought it worked well and it was like a drip system, but on my budget. Don't know if it is the best way, but it is my way.

B

I can't seem to figure out the watering thing. My flowers and shrubs have all been planted within the past 3 years (some 3 years ago, some 2, some 1). A couple years ago I had a new tree that was all wilted and my garden center said it looked like it had gotten too wet. Then I got gun shy and I think some of my plants weren't getting enough water.

I had a Weigela that looked great all one summer but didn't come back the next spring. My garden center said that it probably didn't get enough winter water. This past fall, I planted two more Weigelas. As you all know, we got a bunch of snow this winter so I didn't need to water as much over the winter (I think I watered them around Thanksgiving and around mid February). Now, they are still not coming back very well at all. Arrrrggghh!

Sometimes I don't think I'm meant to garden in Colorado. Maybe it's just too many new plants all at one time that is frustrating me, but it seems like my plants have a couple months in the spring to do well and then the rest of the year they are just holding on, trying not to die! Is it too sunny, too shady, too hot, too dry, too wet... it shouldn't be this hard, right?

Finn21, I feel your pain. I too feel like I have a black thumb. Partly my problem is budget- I am trying to direct sow from seed. No room in the house with the 2 kids and dog to start them indoors. I get them to germinate- yahoo! I get so excited- then, before too long I've missed a watering or it hails, and they are toast. It shouldn't be this hard. If I had to grow my own food I wouldn't make it a month!

Emagineer, could you provide more info about your computerized watering system? My geeky husband is interested. Thanks!
Steviewonder

Finn,
Not sure where you are located, but even a couple of blocks in the same neighborhood can make a difference in how a plant survives. Walking and driving around the neighborhood really surprised me as to what was blooming and lush. All at different stages and within a few blocks of the same area.

I'm not up on all as the others regarding plants, names, locations, water, ect. Am not sure I could even get to their level of knowledge at this point. And, I hate to see a plant die, but there have been more than wanted which didn't make it.

I planted Weigelas too and they look gone, never did show a thing. It may have been because they were bare root which never works for me, but keep reading the best to plant for success. Success is such a broad term for Colorado.

My garden is mixed with what I love and what grows with the ability found. Takes the "hard" out of gardening. Don't give up, you can thrive on what is loved and does well. Plant a bunch more of the same.

Yes, yes, yes, Finn! Exactly what Emagin said!

If theres something thats working well for you, get a few more. Start with smaller thingsmore perennials. Theres less of an investment in case they dont work, and theyre usually easier to work with and more forgiving to help you learn. Try some of the very basic things like dayliliestheres an endless variety of colors. Or Salvia is easy. Try May Night salvia. Or shasta daisies. After you start having success with a few things, youll feel like experimenting more with other things, but add a few at a time. Without even realizing whats happening, youll start to get a "feel" for what to do next.

One hint about over/under watering. If something is wilting and you water it and it doesnt perk back up again, its been overwatered. The reason is doesnt perk up again is because overwatering causes the roots to rot and they no longer have the ability to take in the water. If its gotten to that point, chances are youre going to loose the plant.

And, somewhere around 80% of all the problems people have growing plants are caused by some kind of improper wateringover or under, so dont despairyou have LOTS of company.

You do FAR less damage by underwatering than by overwatering, so, if in doubt, hold off on watering. An underwatered plant can get really ratty looking, but, if its getting any water at all, it wont die. And overwatered plant will get really ratty looking and then die!

Experiment with a few perennials till you find ones that like you. Its fun and youll LOVE it when it starts working for you.

Skybird

Thanks for all the encouraging words and empathy. I agree, I should probably just add more of the plants that are doing well for me. I have two of the 'May Night' Salvias and they are the best looking plants in my garden right now!

I think the most frustrating (besides the weigela issue)is having one plant doing great and the plant right next to it doing terribly....and they are the same kind! I planted two golden privets in my front yard to use as back ground color for a shrub garden. One is growing great and looks awesome. The other is the same size or shrinking since I put it in, and they are 5 feet from each other! Also, I planted a dwarf burning bush that is growing slow but looking fine so far, yet another dwarf burning bush - about 12 feet away - didn't come back at all this spring. (It was planted in the same spot as my first weigela so maybe that area of my garden is contaminated or something.) Either way, because of my watering issues I'm constantly racking my brain trying to figure out why one plant is happy while another is dying....probably over-analyzing things.

Follow up question totally off the subject: How much do you all try to "balance" the look of your garden, that is, do you try limit the number of species included in the garden mosaic in order to prevent it from being too eclectic, or do you just plant as many different things as you feel like? For me, I guess the "go with what works" approach may decide it for me!

Thanks everyone,
Finn

Do you have varmints? (voles and such)
I know I do, and they sure have taken out some stuff in past winters.
Also, I didn't need to water this winter, but we did get some wicked drying winds that caused dieback for me and my neighbors, and now things are coming out great from the ground.

Aproximately where are you in Arvada? I may be near you. I could give you starts of things that do well for me.

I water using a rather extensive drip system that usually works great.
Just got my drip system going and the 20 year old pressure regulator blew. Such fun.

Re Weigela - I have some that do well, and really struggled with others. The ones that do well are planted in black polypropylene weed barrier / mulch, which has, over the years, accumulated a decent layer of leaves and dead stuff on top. They do 'ok' but some years flower a lot better than other years. The weed barrier, I'm convinced, helps retain moisture during the winter. The other ones that do well are on the north side of the garage where they stay pretty moist as well.

However, all the other ones elsewhere around the yard have died off, usually struggling mightily for a few years and finally giving up. I think their problem is two fold, one is winter dryness, and the other is those warm days in Feb / late winter seem to get the stems waking up, and then it gets really cold again and kills the top of the stems. That even happens with the ones that are protected.

All in all, its not the best plant for the dry climate. So don't feel too bad.

Boy, I can sympathize with those who are still trying to figure out gardening in this climate. I lost so much stuff the first two years I was ready to cover everything in gravel.

Skybird is right on about underwatering versus overwatering. Maybe the little water meter on a stick will help you like it helped me, you can get one at the garden center.

Also, planting like with like is important. I had to move a lot of stuff so I didn't have a xeric next to something that needed regular water. Also, taking care to work my soil (compost, etc.) and plant things in the type of soil they required made a big difference.

At the end of the year (September-October) I move things that aren't doing well. This spring, everything came back except a new vinca minor.

cnetter, I'm near 64th and Oak. I don't have a problem with voles or anything (though I did find one in my window well that was chewing holes in the window screen...but that's the only one, or evidence of one, that I have ever seen).

David, that's exactly what has happened to my Weigelas! All the growth that comes back has been from the midpoint of the plant down. The tips are all dried up and brittle.

Skybird, thanks so much for the very helpful information. I'm going to do your test with my sprinklers--that's exactly what I need. And I like your idea of watering the lawn less often by encouraging deeper roots. What a great idea. I'm going to try to do that.

emagineer, one reason I always water in the morning is slugs. They feed at night, so it's better for everything not to be wet then.

finn21, I planted a weigela last spring and was afraid it wasn't going to come back. It is leafing now, but boy, it looks sad (tips dried up, like yours). I hope this doesn't happen every year. I wish I would've known about the problems with growing them before I bought one.

And, I think as far as balancing the look goes--it depends on what type of garden appeals to you. I try to put plants with complementary colors that bloom at the same time next to or near each other, but I like a pretty grown-in crowded garden. I was reading in Tracy DiSabato-Aust's book (The Well-Tended Perennial Garden--highly recommended) that she likes gardens where the ground doesn't show, and I tend to like it that way, too. I also have a small yard with lots of shade, so have to really take advantage of my sunny areas. But some people like a more planned look, and there are certainly beautiful gardens out there that are more orderly.

Thank you, everyone, for your help with the watering question.