the most accurate color is the picture on top....

I vote for Oklahoma. I don't think Papa Meilland has that many petals. I agree that it's one or the other.

By the way the tips of the petals are white with a pinch of yellow, JohnReb says he can id reds by the yellow or white space on the reds tips petals......

Uhhh-ohhhh ...it seems another Oklahoma-or-Mirandy discussion is about to happen. ;-)

As I and others have stated in previous discussions, Oklahoma and Mirandy blooms can be VERY difficult to tell apart. So, in this thread, I'll just mention differences between them rather than list all their similarities.

I grow both of them ...and I planted them in the same row so I could compare them more easily. In my opinion, Mirandy's blooms age to several simultaneous shades of "grapejuice" red ...and Oklahoma's do not age to multihued grapejuice.

Oklahoma's oldest (fully-mature) leaves are ARS-described as "matte" (non-glossy).

Also, Mirandy's bloom-form is ARS-described as Globular ...and in my yard, it is somewhat "looser-petaled" when open than Oklahoma's (which tend to remain comparatively "well-ordered").

The "looser" form I'm speaking of refers mainly to the outer petals - but please also notice the mish-mash of petals at the center of Angelsmell's blooms.

Mirandy is known for its tendency to produce thin-stemmed buds, which result in "nodding" when the bloom has become well-open.

So, with consideration of the factors of bloom-color, bloom-form, and "nodding," AngelSmell's photos look to me more like Mirandy than Oklahoma.

Angelsmell, please check your rose's blooms with those three factors in mind and let me know whether or not my description of Mirandy's blooms fits yours.

Regarding my theory about petal ATTACHMENT-tip color (and size) for identifying red roses...
it can't "identify" a red, it can only tell you what a red rose is NOT. For example, Mr. Lincoln's petal attachment-tips are "electric" deep-yellow, and that color is ona large area of the petal's base. So if a red mystery-rose's opening bloom's attachment-tip area color is white, it cannot be Mr. Lincoln.

But please note:
The petal base-tip color of many rose-varieties tends to lighten SIGNIFICANTLY as the bloom gets old. Therefore I recommend checking the tip-color while the bloom is still opening up.

As of today, I've only got unopened buds and old blooms on my yard's (two) Oklahomas and (two) Mirandy bushes. As soon as the buds open I will check & compare their base-tip colors and get back to you.

As always, I could be wrong. In this case I'm guessing based on what I can observe in the photos, without other desciptive info like bush-height & habit. Speaking of which... my yard's Mirandy(s) tend to produce significantly more buds per SPRAY (not per flush) than my Oklahoma(s).

Regards,
JohnReb

Can't your sister just ask the friend what rose it is?

Laurie

Her friend doesn't have the foggiest idea what the name of the rose is. We of course tried that first. Her friend wants to know also. Since her family is from Oklahoma we thought maybe when the son bought it for her that it may be Oklahoma.

My sister made me go to a nursery to ask them, they agreed it was Chrysler Imperial. Anyone have pictures of CI?

hmm, hate to disagree with your local nursery, but those are AWFULLY dark blooms for a CI, it's usually more crimson than that.

If the nursery said CI, I'd be inclined to say what you've got there is Oklahoma rather than Mirandy, CI is one of Oklahoma's descendents. If the fragrance is a strong old rose/spicy one it's Oklahoma.

What are the thorns like? My Chrysler Imperial was heaven on earth for fragrance, hell on earth for thorns!

I have been trying to ID this rose myself. Years ago past yard workers cut the tags. I've reviewed the names listed above and know that mine is neither Papa Meilland, Mirandy or Oklahoma. I've purchased my favorite roses that were growm by my parents. They had none of the above but they did have Chysler Imperial and I now remember this is the correct name. THANK YOU! My rose looks exactly like this one and has that wonderful real rose fragrance. And the thorns are a nightmare. They are all sizes and all over the stems! Everyone who smells this rose says it the most fragrant they've ever smelled. The one thing about mine is that the blooms tend to droop because the stems are often thin at the base of the bloom. Also the leaves a not shiny but rather dull without luster.