The answer is, it depends upon the fertility of the pollen you use. If it's very fertile, it could take very little. If it's from a fairly sterile rose, it may take a very great amount to get some which works, or you may get lucky and find the fertile bit of it quickly.

If you see many offspring from the parents listed on HMF, there is a good chance you're using fertile parents. If you don't, either the cross hasn't worked for anyone yet, or no one else has either thought of it or tried it. Out of curiosity, what cross are you speaking of? Perhaps some of us have experience with either or both parents. Kim

Kim, I didn't gather pollen from many varieties this spring but am thinking it was Abe Darby and Granada, and maybe Lillian Austin. The stamens just didn't release much pollen, just a trace. If you have a pollen parent with average fertility and you want to pollinate ten blooms, how many blooms would it take to get enough pollen for that if they had an average amount of pollen? I guess the question is silly since it takes whatever it takes..I probably just have to step up the number of blooms I harvest from in order to get enough pollen. I guess one thing that holds me back is that I want to look at the blooms, not pull the petals off of them! It just seems to take alot of blooms to get much pollen.

Good morning Linda, theoretically, it should only take one bloom of the ones you mention. How long did you allow the anthers to dry before pollinating? Here, in the height of summer when it was triple digits with single digit humidity, it only took a few hours in shade on the potting bench to dry them out and the pollen to be released. I can imagine with high humidity it would take a lot longer. When it's like that here, I've had them remain damp for a day or two indoors where there is more humidity control. If there is remaining moisture in the plant parts, the pollen can get "muddy" and ball up when you try to grind the anthers.

Perhaps, if the flowers were well open when you harvested them, much of the pollen had already released? Some begin releasing their pollen extremely early, often before the petals begin opening. Some won't release it without the pollen being beaten from the anthers. Hybrids of Basye's Legacy release pollen extremely early. Legacy itself, releases so early, it's nearly impossible to use it as a seed parent as nearly every seed it creates is selfed. Some of the moss hybrids make so little pollen and tie it up in the waxy anthers, it must be ground out to have enough to do anything with.

You know it can't be all that difficult if acceptable success is accomplished by many who simply snap off the flower they want for pollen, pull off the petals and use the stamen and anthers of that flower as their 'brush' to apply the pollen. Without knowing any differently, my gut instinct suggests it was either the pollen had begun releasing before you began harvesting it, or it wasn't sufficiently dried to be released well. Either of those seem possible? Kim

I admit that I have no experience pollinating roses, but since you sometimes have to wait so long for the right person with the answer you're looking for to come along, I'll offer what insight I have until someone with experience can answer.

It only takes one "grain" of pollen to produce a seed and the grains are microscopic, so I'd imagine if you can see the pollen, it is enough to pollinate. When insects are pollinating flowers they're only carrying minute amounts dusted on their bodies.

It seems like a far bigger issue with pollinating roses is preventing them from self-pollinating naturally and making sure the pollen you get is the exact pollen you want.

Kim,
This year I used blooms which were just about to fully open. I dried them indoors for a couple of days on sheets of paper. Maybe there was enough pollen released..I may have been expecting too much. When people use a snapped off bloom as a pollen paint brush, do they let them dry or not even bother with that?

Pizzuti, your point about how tiny a grain of pollen is helps..I think I just expected more pollen than is necessary and I didn't want to waste my time on " not enough" pollen. Thanks to you both.

You'll probably find more pollen visible if you harvest your flowers as the petals start to unfurl instead of nearly open, as many begin shedding the pollen once the petals begin to open. Unfortunately, to get as much as possible, you do have to remove the petals. Just gently pull them off. I have usually just used a small pair of curved scissors to cut the stamen off into a baby food jar, but you can use a small bowl or even on to a sheet of plain or waxed paper. Finding somewhere to lay out the sheets of paper where they can air dry without anyone disturbing them, breezes blowing them away or the blamed cat collecting all of them on his fur (grrr!) or using the sheets as his "toys" is always an issue.

As long as they feel dry to your touch and look shriveled as if they have dried out, they should begin releasing the pollen. A plain old mortar and pestle can be used to grind them all up into a powder, presuming they are sufficiently dried. If they ball up as a gummy mess, they aren't ready. If you can obtain a quantity of baby food jars, shaking them side to side will show you whether there is a great deal of pollen being released as it sticks to the jar sides, allowing me to just wipe it out on my finger and apply it where I want it.

Ralph Moore passed on the grinding idea as he'd found many roses didn't release the pollen well due to what he called "malformed anthers". He frequently pollinated roses of widely different families and felt "flooding" the seed bearer with pollen, often over several successive days, led to better pollination and more seeds to raise. Using roses of similar or the same family would require much less pollen as there aren't the incompatibility issues to try to overcome.

Yes, it only takes one grain of viable pollen to fertilize one seed. There can be many seeds per hip, which would require many grains of pollen. The more you can harvest and take with you to the garden for use, the greater the number of blooms you can fertilize and, hopefully, more seeds you will have to raise. You'll find with quite a few varieties after observing them while collecting pollen, they begin releasing much earlier than you suspect. Often, I've found the fewer the number of petals, the earlier they begin releasing pollen. Makes sense. Five petals result in more stamen and more pollen for use. Five petals usually require much less heat, energy and time to open so those which begin releasing pollen earlier result in faster pollination. With blooms of greater petal count, early release of the pollen would be less efficient as many of them are trapped in petal folds or jammed in among the stigma pads where the pollen wouldn't be positioned to fertilize anything. The more successful varieties would hold the pollen longer, preventing its inefficient loss. You can check that by examining single petaled varieties. Darker ones such as Altissimo will often show a dusting of golden pollen over the petal surfaces as the flowers unfold.

You can use that as a guide for when collecting pollen might work better. Fewer petals need it much earlier than higher petal counts because the pollen is shed much earlier than in highly double roses. With singles, I have often begun collecting as soon as the sepals peel back and show petals. When using more double varieties for seed, I have often waited until the majority of the petals have expanded before emasculating the flower to ready it for application. Seems to work well based upon the quantity of seeds created and the resulting seedlings. Of course there will be a percentage of self set seed, but if the pollen you've applied is from a significantly different type of rose, separating those which are really hybrids of the two is often easier than you'd think. Not always, but more often than not. Kim

I know I have read of someone who does freeze pollen but I can not remember who it was, sorry.

There is information about freezing it on the Rose Hybridizers Association forum. Using silica gel packets can help keep it dry. Once frozen, be sure to allow it to completely thaw before opening to prevent condensation in the container. Kim

Kim, so the very double ones release pollen later but also are ready for pollination later it sounds like. I think this spring I was removing the petals before they'd fully opened, so that would have been too soon on a very double one I guess.

I am not sure I want to get into freezing pollen but it is good to know to avoid condensation.
Thanks,
Linda

Very likely. If you wait for the bloom to follow it's own time line, it would be later. If you emasculate the flower, remove the petals and stamen, the stigma matures faster so you can push it along. Explore a bit. Emasculate some without expecting to pollinate them. Watch the stigma pads, the ends of the filaments in the center of the flower. You might see them change texture to a more translucent appearance. You might also feel them becoming stickier, wetter. Some remain completely dry yet are just as able to hold pollen for fertilization. It's one of those things you have to take a lot on faith until you develop a feel for it so you're more comfortable it's ready. Kim