If you are in a warming cycle, Hot Lips will love being repotted. Are you going to use slow release fertilizer in the mix or scatter some on the top of the pot?

You can get cuttings out of the trimmings if they have been in a state of growth. If they have just been sitting on the plant, they will just sit there in the rooting medium. Some may eventually root, but expect a long wait. You will see a flush of new growth when they root.

If you repot first, then wait a week or two to cut back, you will develop both new roots faster in the new media and get much more viable cuttings from the trimmings. Pruning can be done in two stages, with the most obnoxious or unneeded parts removed during the first cut.

The attached link is to a USDA site on how to prune trees. Some of these ideas apply to woody sages as well

Here is a link that might be useful: How to prune trees (USDA)

Hello Rich!

I plan on potting them up in Kelloggs Patio Plus potting mix (a good, coarse mix already) amended with some pumice. I do have some osmocote, so mixing some of that into it would be easy to do.

I suspect they will be root bound at least a little-can they tolerate a little root trim, or just stick with loosening?

Thanks for the great suggestions. I'll give them another week or two, then pot up. Give them a trim when I see what wants removing!

Thanks again!

Does anyone mind if we continue this discussion for a little longer. It matters to me because every year at this time of year I am struggling with my microphylla and greggii cuttings. They are usually taken in fall after they have come out of heavy growth and some will sulk for several months even in a hotbed before they root. Evenually a miracle happens, usually in late February and all the plants recover and make faster better growth.

If it didn't set me back a year I'd start all my cuttings in May and June and so have strong plants for the nursery bed by mid July. But May and June are busy months in the garden and it is hard to find the time. June and July also are good times for layering existing plants and on a spreading plant like San Carlos Festival dozens of clones can be rooted from a single mother plant.

It is interesting to hear how folks are handling these sages in pots. For they have never done really well for me. Although I feed them they always look worn out later in the season and are nothing even close to their brethren planted in the ground. It is good to know it can be done better.

And a question for Richard. If you were to do a cutting workshop for a group in May or June about when would you pick? I can't decide because spring can be so variable. I'm thinking mid June because folks could see the flowers.

Well, there is a time lag between the optimal time for rooting and the period when they bloom. The natural plant hormones that facilitate rooting usually act in opposition to those that promote bloom, since there are diametric purposes for the photosynthesized building blocks. In the first case, the plant is trying to build up biomass, and in the latter, its energies are going into flower and seed production.

For that reason, it is always advised to trim off flowers and buds from material taken for cuttings. If you have a very vigorous plant, sometimes the flower buds on cuttings will persist and develop. Often, they will simply stop growth or even shrivel if left on.

Spring works better than autumn for cuttings because the increasing daylight and daytime temperatures promotes the increase in the hormones that promote green growth. Warmer temps and nitrogen feedings of the stock plants can be used to increase both the number and viability of cuttings at both times of the year. Also, use a potting soil with a lot of worm castings if you want to see some plant magic.

I have to time the taking of my cuttings for at least 4 weeks, better 6 weeks, prior to a festival to get viable plants. For me in North Carolina USDA Zone 7b, plants start growth in mid February under normal winters.

Worm castings - interesting. The only worm castings I've ever used were those from my neighbors stable cleanings pile and those are mixed with sawdust. This is very timely advice since there are a dozen or so types of fall cuttings that are to some degree rooted from which I need to take more cuttings in another month or so. The plants on the, unheated at the moment, back porch, are beginning to perk up now, Orange Door even gave up a bunch of cuttings.

Do better garden centers sell worm castings, I've never looked?

There are persons who grow earthworms for bait and to add to garden soil. The media they use to grow their wriggling herd is often a byproduct. The reverse may also be true.

My best compost was nearly pure worm castings made from 4 parts red maple leaves, gathered and shredded before they could be rained on. By themselves, they fermented and I could smell the alcohol vapors when I moved the pile. I used one part of dried horse manure and one-half part coffee grounds for the rest and run the three components through a hammermill shredder.

After three weeks, the inside of the pile was nearly snow white with mold. Three more weeks, the earthworms were multiplying rapidly. In two more weeks, I could reach into the pile anywhere and pull out a pile of nearly 100% worm castings and at least 6 huge earthworms.

The next summer, I was constantly repotting my stock plants, and cuttings from them seemed to root in a week and generate finished plants in about ten more days. I uses one part of the castings to three parts of potting soil that year.

Rich, Is it to soon for me to take cuttings from my fall planted Saliva's? I have several I want to try in a Jiffy seed starter mix. Also, do you recommend dipping in a root hormone. New to this so I appreciate your input.
Arlene

Don't take cuttings unless the plants are growing vigorously. In addition to what I've mentioned previously, you may get a bunch of nice cuttings from a stock plant, but leaving it with about one quarter or less of the initial foliage (and most of it will be older, more tired foliage) will really slow the plant down. I usually take cuttings from a stock plant to leave half of the foliage, since I will get the next crop sooner. Using finished compost rich in worm castings also speeds up this process.

Rooting hormone is maybe more useful for its antifungal components.

Hi all!
Just as an update- I pruned and potted up my Hot Lips about 3 wks ago. Thanks for the advice, Rich. By looking at the website, the plants almost "told " me where to prune. Get rid of dead, weedy and so on. New growth was peeking out on the lower stems, so trim down to there.

They weren't root-bound as I'd feared, but close to it. I loosened the root ball a little, mixed some of the old soil with new Kelloggs and pumice, a little slow release, and put them in pots 2 in. larger. re worm castings- they're a component of the potting mix I use. It's not available all over, but it's such a nice, coarse well draining mix. And I found earthworms when I potted up!

They are growing beautifully and already have fat buds on a dozen shoots. Didn't try cuttings yet, I didn't see anything viable that I trimmed.

I'm wondering if they have insect repelling properties..? I've never seen bugs on them. I moved them next to one of my potted roses and it's now the only one without aphids. The foliage is very aromatic.

If I were to look for similarly performing salvia to use as a companion, does anyone have suggestions? Texas and Mexican sages grow well here, but they are waaay too big for balcony pots. I tried Black and Blue and it croaked in a week-seemed too tender.

Would I look for a gregii, microphylla, or? There are salvias available here, but sometimes the labeling is "red" "pink", or something equally enlightening. High Country Gardens may be a good source to order from if there is nothing local.

Thanks!

I would think the S. gregii is a good choice - there certainly are a bunch of cultivars to choose from. If you are feeling adventurous, try the S. pachyphylla from High Country - youy have one of the best climates there in Nevada to grow it - it doesn't like summer water. A clevelandii or "Allen Chickering" could be nice too.

Thanks, dicot!

I suspect the other I tried was a "european" type which just fried. I'll take a look locally, but High Country does have some very interesting specimens. The S.pachyphylla looks great in their fotos, aromatic, heat loving.. Might be a little large, but Hot Lips can be as well-and containerizing and pruning has kept it under control. I'm not into size anyway, more form, aromatics and bloom. At least now I can narrow them down a bit.

Thanks

Well, S. pachyphylla can be found in the Death Valley mountains west of the ghost town of Rhyolite, Nevada, so David Salman's new pachyphylla should be perfect for you. He also has S. canescens daghestanica, a rock garden sage with gray small rosettes and deep indigo purple flowers.

The Salvias of Turkey, central Asia, and some of China should do well. Most will be ablout the size of the larger California sages like mellifera, leucophylla, or clevelandii hybrids. The clevelandii straight forms like Winnifred Gilman and Betsy Clebsch are smaller. The last one has white and blue variegated flowers.

Great! I'll check those out, too S. canescens daghestanica sounds interesting- I like the idea if the gray foliage and indigo flowers. Trying something like David Salman's new one would be fun as well. I know which direction to look now!

Thanks!

Need advise. Have 2 Hot Lip Salvia plants in S/W corner of Tennessee. They don't seem to overwinter here. This is my second year to plant them. I want some more, so please tell me what to do. Dig them up, place in garden pots? prune back? Place in a sunny area of the house? I've never done 'cuttings', but I'm certain you could tell me how, if that's what I need to do. Thanks! Lin

Lin:

What is your soil type and exposure? You should be around USDA Zone 7 at the very least, and that should be hardy enough. Are the plants near any shrubs, especially surface feeders?

They get quite large in good garden soil or sandy loam, about 3 to 4 feet tall in one year.

They handle being in pots well, but you don't want the pot to freeze solid, which can kill USDA Zone 3 hardy plants.

I Like Rich's idea of the worm castings and making your own would be best but I have seen and bought and used some that walmart has sold although I cant say I detectd any difference of growth from that.

Also of note I know of a place where there is composted mulch which has been making for 3 yrs and I cant wait to get my hands [literally] on some of that and yes it is free. Im guessing this will be more like ash.

And speaking of ash , wood ash to be exact. Last year my sister was spreading the ash on her vege garden. I noticed first hand by being there and helping her till that garden that the area mentioned the soil was better ground and the items grown there were bigger and better.

What is your thoughts on wood ash?