I've seen those on my roses, as well. I think it might be some type of sawfly larva/ rose slug.

My son was in a car accident a few hours ago, he is fine!
His car was demolished. We had a severe thunderstorm with heavy rain and he tried to pull over until the rain stopped. Another car did not have his headlights on coming the other way and my son ran into him... Nobody was hurt! Just lots of car damage on both ends. Nobody was cited...
I'm just glad my son is ok.

JIM

AAAAAugh! poor son! and am so relieved he wasn't injured. For college-aged kids, having transportation is very important, so I am sure he isn't happy at this point; but still at the same time I can imagine how relieved everyone is that he is now o.k.! and safe from the wreck!

Jim I'm sorry to here about your son ; but I'm glad he's safe how blessed he is.
Harold

Thanks!

JIM

Oh how scary----Thank goodness he is OK--

Florence

Hi, Jim I haven't seen you for a bit, maybe because Sue is starting the treatments? How is she? Doing tons of prayers for her...

In case you're feeling a bit wistful about your roses, I will need to show you what happened to one of mine! It looks so hideous, poor Mr. Lincoln, but the perfume is as heavenly as ever. The flowers start out as an o.k. red but when they mature they become this awful blood purple. What you are seeing is actually better than the end result. What is a shock to me was that in early July my blooms were huge. Now they are much smaller. I think it's because both my Lincolns spent all their energy growing instead of blooming!!!!

This Lincoln was so sneaky. It started out as a full even bush, and then all of a sudden it sprouted this huge thick cane that came out of nowhere. I was about to hack it, but it split off into 5 branches each with tiny blossom buds on every! single one of those branches, so I didn't have the heart to hack them all off. You see Lincoln is a very! slow bloomer; it takes over a month! for them to bloom and for the buds to develop. Even nowwww, only one of those buds have bloomed, and because it's such a slowpoke bloomer the rest of the cane continued to shoot up way past the bushy growth below. So even as of today! I still can't hack my plant, AAAAAAARGH.

The other Lincoln is doing just fine, its branches are all even but like its sibling, again, blood purple small flowers. I was only able to get 3 nice photos of my Lincoln blossoms altogether. It's a pretty pathetic number compared to my other roses.

serenasyh, that is normal type growth for your young Lincoln. That's exactly how my hybrid teas grew.
That tall cane will get 5 or so blooms on it. It will look cool! LOL

Sue sees her doctor on Friday. Then, we will go from there. My sons back is hurting him, from getting whipped around in the accident. He's doing good though.

JIM

That was bad luck for your son Jim, he thought he was doing the safer thing. Real lucky they were both alright though. A shame about your blooms.
Thats a neat garden bed Serena.

I firmly believe that any cane smaller than a pencil is worthless. I left those smaller canes on our platinum and they collasped and broke with flower/ or wetness weight.
Worthless!...LOL... Flowers are heavy on Platinum (5")
Spring pruning I will leave only strong canes which will support the flower weight.
This is just for my OLDER Platinum.
Each rose bush will require different pruning methods.

Younger roses always have smaller canes until they mature alittle.
I haven't seen a pic of your other Lincoln.
But, the pic above shows your rose is getting more mature by the stronger, thicker cane growth.

JIM

I'm all mixed up today with my sons accident and wife, so, I'm having trouble thinking.

Anyhow, Your Lincolns will pump out the blooms from the 3rd year on, as long as the non-productive/older canes are cut out to allow other new stronger canes to replace them. Each strong/thicker cane will stay productive for 3-4 yrs, unless something happens to them, then less.

Lincolns mature at Appx. 4ft high X 3 ft wide, unless you keep them pruned lower.

I know how you feel about those stray canes pushing up past the lower bushy part. But, it's Normal Growth! It's trying to reach puberty...LOL

JIM

PLATINUM SHOULD BE A TALL BUSHY PLANT NEXT SEASON AS STRONG CANES ARE COMING UP EVERYWHERE...LOL
NOW, I AM TRANSPLANTING PLATINUM TO A NEW LOCATION IN MARCH, SO, IT MAY BE ALITTLE SLOWER. SWEET AFTON IS ALSO GETTING MOVED TO A NEW LOCATION.

{{gwi:319520}}

Jim, hee-hee, I didn't post photos of the other Lincoln, just my hideous one as crybaby whining, lol! At least to my eyes the bush looks hideous, lol! and so few blooms except for those 5 clusters at the top that it is hoarding and threatening me with if I should dare reach out with my pruning scissors. I believe it's holding those buds as hostages, hahahahaha! and can read my mind about how much I'm wanting to hack and slash it down.

Here is my other Lincoln.

I just seen a post where Lincolns are growing to 6ft tall...LOL. Platinum will reach 5.5 ft

JIM

hahah and you probably read my whining, whining whining! Mine are both! already 5'3. I am thinking by Fall it will easily be 6' on its first growing year I really disagree with Buford though. I don't think she understands Lincolns. Everyone who grows Lincolns know that it doesn't take to pruning very kindly. It will come back and will bite you in the butt, LOL! with awkward growth if you try to prune it too much. The nice thing with Lincoln is that it is a very strong stemmed plant. It never breaks. In fact none of my roses do. they may nod, but there's never any breakage and we have gotten howling winds/tornado warning type of weather. Thank goodness or else I'd be having a heartattack over my tree roses.

I wish my Gemini would have a huge flush so I could send a rose photo for your wife as an online bouquet, but it is such a gradual bloomer, I am crossing my fingers that it will coordinate itself into an all-at-once bloomer in this particular flush. Usually I prefer the gradual buildup but not in this instance. I also need to ask Rosemeadow how her s.o. is doing as well. She's got such an adorable little daughter.

Are your Lincolns the same age? The second Lincoln is more mature than the first.

Your 1st Lincoln: Prune it next Spring, if you can wait...LOL... Get rid of those 5 branches at the top as they will only produce crappy thin canes anyhow.

JIM

Yes, Jim they're exactly the same age, the same! bushiness when I bought them from the nursery. I am very picky about my youngsters if I purchase them from a nursery. I always select ones with lots of healthy young stems and a full, balanced shape. They were very carefully hand-selected and looked almost identical to each other in every possible way. What happened is that my hideous Lincoln was the one that Monster Rabbit destroyed and ate 2/3rds out of. All those fluffy nice stems vanished in one night. Had it not been eaten, I am positive it would have been a true twin to the other. They're even the same height! 5'3". That's how close they are in age and what would have been their original size. Believe me Jim, before Monster Rabbit ate it I would have had the same vigor from it as the other. What I am hoping is that once I cut down the 5 branches to a lower height, the rest of the bush will start to catch up. Aromatherapy once I pruned it down, the other middle part of the bush caught up, whereas in my previous photo to you it had more of a V shape.

O.K. another confusing fact about the hideous Lincoln. Actually it still has a very even shape to it; that monster cane is only 4 weeks old! unlike the other branches. It just appeared out of nowhere and threw the appearance of the bush completely out of whack!

I want to plant a small hummingbird garden next Spring.

My wife doesn't want any flowers or roses planted in our backyard where the grass is growing...LOL

So, I only have the mulched area to work with for roses, small hummingbird/Butterfly garden now.
:(

So, I will fit what I can into the mulched areas and grow more roses in containers...LOL

JIM

well, hee-hee, she may change her mind down the road, LOL! once those roses start to fill out those entire mulched areas she will be hooked! Or you can always show her the curtains of roses that Karen, Australian Summer, has and your wife will start to change her mind.

How old are those Lincolns???
You will see tons of growth the third year...LOL
The blooms will get more plentiful too. You will be in bloom heaven...LOL

I forgot about Monster Rabbit.

I have to prune those last 2 bad injured canes out of Platinum here soon or next Spring. Since it's getting transplanted in march, I may just prune them out tomorrow to make it easier to move in the Spring. At least all of those new canes are growing upward, instead of sideways...LOL... Yea!!!!

I have been talking with Karl (Rosenut) via e-mail and he has explained alot to me about pruning. I really appreciate his help.

JIM

You mentioned small flowers on your Lincolns. If lightly pruned you will get small, but, more flowers on a rose bush.
Heavier pruning, bigger flowers, but, less flowers.
Depends what size your canes are and other things factor in also.

My step-dad/moms rose bush has thin canes with very small roses on it. That thing wouldn't hold larger blooms...LOL... It droops over now from small roses. Platinum size roses would have it laying on the ground...LOL
Not sure what happened to that rose bush as it once had strong canes with much larger blooms.
It suppose to get 3 inch blooms, there blooms now are not much bigger than a quarter. Makes me laugh. He has the canes tied up with a support. It is not a climber either as years ago it stood strong and proud for many years.

JIM

Jim those Lincolns were bought in May 2009, but they are grafts, not own root. Usually grafts are a year old when you buy them so I am assuming they're 1 year and 6 months? They were only 10" tall when I got them, very cute! I still have their photos...and now they're 5'3". So any new photos of Platinum? The ones you posted I've seen before and just was wondering how it was doing of late.

I wish I would be in bloom heaven with Mr. Lincoln, but in a way, from observing him I think I'm stuck with his slow blooming ways, lol! I don't believe Mr. Lincoln is at all! like Fragrant Cloud, Gemini or your Platinum. He's a turtle! And JeffAurora and HenryInct are the very rare few who have been able to post any photos of Lincoln at all. Henry's I've seen the entire rose bush--it sends a decent number of blooms but it is far from "prolific". Lincoln is just a rose that so few people are able to capture well. But I tell you that perfume is irreplaceable. There are many exceptionally fragrant smelling roses, the Austins, Tiffany, Fragrant Cloud, Elle, but there is just something special about Mr. Lincoln's mix. Perhaps one of the Romantic roses that Karen has may be able to match Mr. Lincoln's I don't know, but I still treasure Mr. Lincoln's fragrance above the fragrant roses that I've encountered and you can smell it from several feet away even with just one pathetic blossom! That is what I love so much about it.

I haven't read much about mr Lincoln to know if it suppose to bloom well or not?

"How would you like to be this guy:

Mr. Lincoln is one of my favorite roses also. The one drawback, for me, is that it gets 8' tall, and with the blooms on the tips of the new growth, It can't be enjoyed as much as shorter roses. So, When I dead head, I cut at least 3' of stem, to keep the roses a little lower."
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ARTICLE ON MR LINCOLN Rose

http://www.learn2grow.com/gardeningguides/roses/featuredplants/MisterLincoln.aspx
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Everybody seems to love this rose.

I think I see now, you want your Mr Lincoln bushy and that's not its natural growth pattern , so, you prune it to be bushy??? Am I on the right track?
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Platinum has little smell to it. Platinum is a hybrid tea rose, but, also it is considered a hedge rose. It does not have the hybrid tea rose growth pattern. It's natural growth pattern will be somewhat bushy.
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Sweet Afton does not have the hybrid tea rose tea pattern either. It will grow 5-6 ft high and 4ft wide and have very bushy natural growth. It has a scent.

JIM

hee-hee, well with 8' tall roses he can tryyyy to cut 3' off, but I'm sure Lincoln is going to bite him in the rump, lol! I'm sorry but 3' he's crazy! you can't keep Lincoln as a 5' rose if it insists on growing at 8', lol! I try controlling him but what do I get for all my trouble? itsy-bitsy puny roses.

Jim, Mr. Lincoln isn't a prolific bloomer, but at least he is a repeat sloooow bloomer. About 2 weeks slower than the rest of my roses. In his first 2 flushes he had huge grapefruit blooms before he finally rebelled and gave me tiny blooms after I cut him too severely.

Yes, just like the article you described it's not just the heavy scent that you can smell several feet away but also the type of fragrance. You see each rose I find has a different sort of scent, ranging from plastic (lol!) to peach, to garden tea scent to a slight spice smell to "myrrh" or like heavy cinnamon fruit, but Lincoln that smell I have found no equal which is why I call it the Chanel No. 5 out of all the roses. But no there are people who don't like Mr. Lincoln because it is too tall and they call it the "one cane wonder". To me the one cane is resolved by feeding him lots of sea tea and alfalfa and he will grow many canes. And yes you have to prune and deadhead but! the trick is not! to prune too severely. I now know never to cut more than 8" of cane. Always the best is the 5-leaf cut.

ooops, Jim I just saw your post and questions! yes, I severely pruned Lincoln and fed him that sea tea to keep him bushy! Sea tea does great! Severe pruning, nope! simple 5-leaf deadheading, yes! works great! So I had to learn the hard way with my Lincolns.

whoops, I looked up Precious Platinum and just like you described, it is listed as only slightly fragrant... I'm not sure where I got that idea that it was very fragrant. silly me! But I do! love that photo of it (the one with the closer view, it had so many lovely red blooms on it)

Platinum blooms more through the season by snapping the flower off. We did that last year and it bloomed almost non-stop. 4" blooms
This year I cut to the 5 leaf, the 3 leaf and snapped...LOL
Going back to all snapping next season. Of course didn't have cane trouble last season either as it grew to many canes this season and they cut into each other and were injured...LOL
Platinum is a cane producing machine...LOL

JIM

Just thought of this: I used Epsom salts for our roses, it's suppose to help create new basal cane growth.
This is the first year I have used it...LOL... Maybe it caused to much cane growth?
I used it in April and again in late May.
Will have to look into that.

EPSOM SALTS:
http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/lab/msg0300445113951.html

Jim, hee-hee, roses are very individual. They come with their own personality. You can't snap off Mr. Lincoln blooms, they just won't bloom. It is a very! stubborn plant. You see Mr. Lincoln produces long stemmed roses and requires a lot of energy to produce just one bloom. If you snap you will have one ugly plant because it will send all that energy into that stalk and it'll be a very thick ugly attention-getting stalk. And Lincoln unlike Platinum is not a blooming machine. It produces flushes very, very slowly.

Jim I believe your Mom's bush has been overtaken by Dr. Huey, which produces drooping thin canes and quarter-sized flowers. They need to get rid of it and plant a new rose. The original rose I believe has died and been taken over by rootstock. If it is a once-bloomer it is definitely!!!! Dr. Huey.

Please read this carefully.

In Spring when a rose bush is pruned: If pruned severely it will take longer to bloom as they need to reach a certain size before blooming on the 1st flush. The first blooms will be large, but, you will have fewer blooms.
This applies to all rose bushes.

Now, when the flower is spent and needs deadheaded after the first flush, when you cut to the 5 leaf, it will take longer to re-bloom as it needs a longer time to grow back to its size to re-bloom because you are cutting more of the stem off.

EXAMPLE FROM PLATINUM:

cutting to the 5 leaf, it took alittle over 6 weeks to re-bloom

snapping off the rose, it re-bloomed in 3 - 4 weeks.

I had smaller blooms, but, many more blooms throughoout the season.

So, I can see where you are stuck between a rock and a hard place with Mr. Lincoln.

The pruning method NEEDED for Mr. Lincoln to keep him a nice looking bush shape, you MAY have to sacrifice flower blooms and how long it takes to bloom.

Plus, I read Mr. Lincoln takes forever to bloom after severe pruning and that includes the 5 leaf method also.

So, to get more blooms, you may have to live with a less then perfect busk look with smaller flowers...LOL

Hopefully not though...lol
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I would keep pruning exactly like you have been and see what happens to Lincolns when they reach there 3rd-4th years, then if nothing happens with getting the blooms you want, you may have to make some pruning changes.

Well, I just went outside and was going to prune the last 2 bad injured canes out of Platinum. To my surprise it had already pruned itself...LOL
The injured canes broke off after turning brownish, so, I just cut them off flush with loppers at the base.

Here's a pic of some of the damage as the camera battery went dead.

{{gwi:319523}}

I just realized something after looking at full bush rose pics.
The 3 new roses we are getting for next season are the longer stemmed cutflower type. But, they have a nice bushy appearance.

I was wondering: Those types of roses that get cluster of roses on, instead of just one rose on a stem.

How do you deadhead those??? LOL

Platinum is getting snapped off next season again, that works best for it.

Sweet Afton, i'm not sure of what method I will use yet.
Jeez, alot to learn with all these different types of roses.

JIM

Well, Jim as an actual Lincoln Hybrid Tea grower I can guarantee that Lincoln does not! like to be severely pruned. I think that rule is way oversimplified. Every rose is different and it's important for people to actually grow Lincoln to understand its nature. I think if you were to grow Lincoln you would understand what I'm talking about. Lol! Unlike what the rule says, if you severely prune Lincoln it won't! give you larger blooms. The opposite will happen. Itsy-bitsy flowers. 5-leaf approach and 3-leaf produce identical results in Lincoln. Because I use Sea Tea as fertilizer, no matter where I cut, new budding stems and leaves are sent way below the cut, a single cane will hold 6 or seven tiny buds that are just waiting to sprout. These immediately jump into either new growth or new flower stems, but unlike other floribundas and other hybrid teas, Lincoln needs a thick enough stem in order to produce a big flower! If you keep hacking at it, the stems will get skinnier and skinnier-but just as tall, more and more fragile and before you know it, you get an ugly itsy-bitsy flower on this very skinny puny long stalk.

Just watched a great video on deadheading those roses that cluster on a stem/cane.

I also contacted the Pittsburgh Pa Rose Society which is 130 miles from here. After I join and get the date, I'll be spending a couple days in Pittsburgh to learn more about roses.

The man told me to go ahead and snap off roses on bushes that respond well to it as the 5 leaf method has lately become a more debated subject. He told me to do exactly what I have been doing...LOL...Cut some at the 5 leaf, 3 leaf and snap. Whatever looks and grows best to the way I like and prefer, go with that method. I want more blooms on Platinum (even though they will be a bit smaller), so, the snap off method will provide faster re-bloom and more roses throughout the season.
And that's pretty much what I found out last season. Platinum bloomed almost non-stop.
Hopefully, I can get most of our roses to bloom non-stop, smaller roses doesn't bother us. We like 3 inch roses, so, if ours shrink from 5" to 3" we are still happy...LOL

I want to visit a rose garden next season also.