Posted by sinfonian U:8b A:2 S:5 (SeaWA) (My Page) on Thu, Feb 12, 09 at 20:22

Jleiwig: I'm not trying to be argumentative or obtuse, but your statements above confuse me. If compost provided no nutrients in the absence of soil microbes, then my SFG beds that have 1/3 compost and nothing remotely resembling soil would be lifeless. It most definitely is not.
As for air, course vermiculite provides plenty according to Mel's book.

Sorry, but I still don't get it.

Thanks

Does your SQFT bed have isolation on all sides from the elements? Your SQFT bed has an open top, and more than likely an open bottom as well. Microbes, bacteria, worms, and other soil critters can come through the air or from the soil below. Whereas a SWC has an impenetrable bottom and a plastic top cover with only a tiny hole for the plant to come through. As I said before SWCs don't give enough access to the critters for them to do all the work needed. The nutrition comes from the fertilizer strip, and the reason it can be so small is because it is not affected by environmental concerns. It's not washed away by the rain, or spread out to the soil surrounding it, it's concentrated right in that perfect little microworld you've created inside the box. Water comes to the top through wicking, hits the fertilzer strip and distributes it down to the roots.

As for Vermiculite, it is actually very hydrophilic (water
loving)instead of hydrophobic (water hating). So naturally water is drawn to it. Remember anywhere there is water, there is not air.

From all my reading over the winter I'd go so far to say that neither perlite or vermiculite are very good long term solutions. I'd look for a high-fired calcined clay product like truface or axis.

Posted by engineeredgarden 7, nw Alabama (My Page) on Thu, Feb 12, 09 at 21:32

jleiwig - I went over to the earthbox forum, and did lots of reading on the subject. Makes sense to me. That's why so many people are jumping onto the pro-mix bandwagon, cause it's comprised of exactly what you stated earlier. I checked on pro-mix, and it was expensive! I'll be making my own mix for mine. I've already got some vermiculite ordered. :-)
Sinfonian - In my opinion, the mix doesn't have to contain it's own nutrients, because a strip of slow-release fertilizer is added to the top layer, as well as dolomitic lime.

I think this has turned into one of the most informative threads in this forum in months. Thanks!

EG

Pro-mix is very expensive, but the components themselves aren't as expensive in bulk. Pro-mix BX is the standard bearer that everyone uses in professional nursery production.

I was worried that some would be put off by this thread being that it is in the SQFT gardening message board instead of the container gardening board, but when thinking about it, they are both very similar in that they are using unusual methods to beat mother nature at her own game.

Posted by anniesgranny 6b (My Page) on Thu, Feb 12, 09 at 21:54

Would somebody care to translate all of the above so the *average* person can understand it? In other words, WTH do we put in the SWCs that we can find at our local nursery or Lowe's/Home Depot?
I think you've just about talked me out of trying SWCs.

Granny

Here's the ClifNotes version- You could put anything labeled as potting mix in your SWCs. Raybo of "earthtainer" fame uses Miracle Grow Potting mix in his and has fantastic results. I used Pro-mix for containers in mine last year that I got from Home Depot on clearance for $7 a bag. Anything that has a high concentration of peat, and not a lot of other stuff will work out fantastically. This is probably the most simple growing method you will ever use. Fill the box with potting mix, add some seedlings, add the fertilizer strip, cover the top with either black or white plastic, and make sure it's got water. Nothing else needs to be done unless you want to fuss with it.

The discussions here are just for deeper understanding of the reasons why they work so well. I know I've been fairly technical, but if you really want your head to spin go over to the container forum and look at posts by Tapla about soils, water retention, and other things.

You'll learn words that you have to look up in the dictionary! Did I ever think I would be using hydrophobic or hydrophillic in a sentence? No..not in this lifetime, but hours spent researching this have given me a much better understanding than I could have ever imagined.

I even read a tissue study analysis from the the University of Florida that spells out exactly what percentages of nutrients tomatoes need during each stage of their life! I do this because I want to grow the best possible tomatoes that I can, and hopefully one day could start my own production greenhouse.

I love the technical side of everything associated with vegetable production (like you couldn't tell!) Researching and building the stuff is way more fun than any other part for me, because if I've done my homework, I'll know the outcome, so lots of ripe juicy delicious tomatoes is kind of the expected norm. Any other outcome just leads to more research and more changes for next time!

Thanks Jlewig. I understand what you're saying now.

If I had a bunch of peat moss laying around, I'd try it your way, but since I've got over a dozen 40 pound bags of Mel's Mix instead, that's what's going into my SWCs.

I'm going to chalk this up to "there's 100 different ways to grow a tomato" hehe.

Sorry to say I'm more on the Granny side of the debate. I hope never to use either of those two words in a sentance, hehe.

Posted by sinfonian U:8b A:2 S:5 (SeaWA) (My Page) on Fri, Feb 13, 09 at 10:01

Thanks Jlewig. I understand what you're saying now.
If I had a bunch of peat moss laying around, I'd try it your way, but since I've got over a dozen 40 pound bags of Mel's Mix instead, that's what's going into my SWCs.

I'm going to chalk this up to "there's 100 different ways to grow a tomato" hehe.

Sorry to say I'm more on the Granny side of the debate. I hope never to use either of those two words in a sentance, hehe.

No problem...different strokes for different folks. Gardening is just one big experimental competition anyway. It's almost like making a witch's brew trying to figure out a way to beat mother nature because she's never consistant year to year, let alone day to day.

The Purdue horticultural department did a study on 100 different heirloom varieties, and Opalka produced 65 fruits per plant and roma produced 99 fruits per plant. This was in ground with no compost or fertilization added to the field. If I can make that number or beat it(really hope to beat it!) with containers I will be a happy man. 3

I have this crazy plan in my head to do a lot of sun dried tomatoes this year by making up a simple solar dryer out of scrap wood. That is of course if I can stop making salsa to eat fresh every night! Damn the mexicans for introducing me to fresh salsa!

I do use a lot of peat, even in my raised beds, as our E. WA soil is so sandy and alkaline. I have found a 50/50 mix of composted manure and peat to be the perfect soil amendment for my beds. So I suffer the wrath of the "no peat, it's not a renewable resource and you're killing our planet if you use it" people and just do my own thing.

I guess I can manage the SWC mix ;-)

Granny

Anniesgranny,

you can go to HD or Lowes and get a decent mix for your SWC - IMHO (willing to defer here) a soilless mix is better. Don't be put off by my geeky questions to jleiwig, as we are just talking technical stuff (dang ag school won't leave me alone!).

Bottom line is that you will need to add your favorite fertilizer to the mix, make sure it gets aerated and not too waterlogged, so that means you will likely purchase, say, SuperSoil and add peat. I recommend against purchasing the most expensive thing there. Just buy the cheapest one, add peat and fert and enjoy.

Dan

jleiwig - I agree, the growing mediums that are used in sfg is similar to container gardening, because both primarily use soiless mixes. Believe me....I've read all of tapla's threads, and they are amazing. Only a master bonsai grower taught in Japan (which Al is) could have that much knowledge about growing mediums. I can't wait to get this summer growing season going!

EG

Posted by engineeredgarden 7, nw Alabama (My Page) on Fri, Feb 13, 09 at 14:03

jleiwig - I agree, the growing mediums that are used in sfg is similar to container gardening, because both primarily use soiless mixes. Believe me....I've read all of tapla's threads, and they are amazing. Only a master bonsai grower taught in Japan (which Al is) could have that much knowledge about growing mediums. I can't wait to get this summer growing season going!
EG

I couldn't agree more! Just today I went out and could actually feel the sun! That got me so stoked for spring, although we're supposed to get snow tonight! I keep looking at my pathetic garden plot and can't wait to make it beautiful.

BTW,

I just came across this forum that describes a problem with too much moisture in some SWCs as being the result of a too-large wicking container.

I'm going to make two SWC's out of 18-gal Sterilites I picked up at Targét for 4.99/per, and in my mind I had pictured two smaller wicking chambers to alleviate too much moisture (along with foregoing plastic at the top and using landscape fabric & bark instead) to ensure better moisture control.

So I'm thinking that a solution for the moisture problem above might be to restrict the size of the wicking chamber (presuming the commenter above doesn't want to spend too much time on growing medium).

Dan

The only problem with restricting the wicking chamber is that when it's 90 degrees out and your tomatoes are drinking 2 gallons plus a day, you can really get some BER and other side effects of the plants not getting the water they need.

I had two 4" diameter wicking chambers in my 18 gallon SWCs and during the heat of the summer in full growth, not only did they drain the containers, but the top inch of soil was dry. This wasn't a big deal because by that time the roots had grown down to the bottom of the growth area.

This year I'm seriously considering forgoing the fertilizer strip, and using hydroponic nutrients in the resevoirs. I am also thinking about putting bubblers in each one to make sure that the water remains highly oxygenated.

I may do a test and do one the old way and one the new way, so I'll have side by side comparision.

Again, here we are with different approaches to same issues. In my mind there is too much water in the SWC, and what do you do to reduce it? j has one way and I have another.

This is fascinating and I'm interested in the outcome of the fertigation approach. Me, I'm making soil structure and ensuring there is gas exchange. Maybe I'll figger out a way to get some time to post to Flickr or Photobucket to compare to j, altho I'll just have cherries and small determinates.

Nonetheless. I've done containers for over a decade and I'm always looking for better ways to do it, as IME containers are better for some toms wherever you are, and esp if you have a small yard. j, plz let us know how it all turns out.

Dan

I have 6 earthtainers that were constructed last fall, and this spring will be their first activity. I have already bought the large wicking baskets first used, and considered restricting their surface area with something. Afterall, Raybo went to a smaller basket, because he said that the soil was too wet. By reducing the basket size, he reduced the moisture level from "wet" to "moist". But, here's the thing.....If you look at his plants last year, they looked amazing, with the larger baskets in operation. I think it all comes down to how frequently a person wants to add water to it. Any thoughts?

EG

"I think it all comes down to how frequently a person wants to add water to it. Any thoughts? "

EG:

Would the frequency of adding water not be more of the plants ability to intake water?

I read that Raybo reduced his wick size to reduce the moisture retention in the media, because as Al preaches, oxygen aeration to the root system is not possible in water logged soils - and for this reason, AL never uses compost in his containers because it will compact ... I think. At least that's what I got out of them big words, LOL!

I have already bought the large wicking baskets...and considered restricting their surface area with something.

and I think it all comes down to how frequently a person wants to add water to it

FWIW, the only thing I purchased is the Sterilites, everything else is (fill in your preferred 'freecycle'/dumpster diving term here), and I'm using two heavy plastic containers of ~2.25" dimension for the wicks, as I'm, planting cherry toms, which tend to have less leaf area for transpiration potential. We'll find out how well this works - I may have to purchase something that works better...

That is: if you have two big plants with large leaves, they are going to transpire much more water than my two little cherries, so your wick needs to work well enough to transfer water to the growing medium.

So it is not a matter of 'wanting' to add water to it, it is how frequently you need to add water to it.

Dan

I'm wondering what role humidity plays a role in all this. Here in Ohio, when it gets hot, it is 85-100% humidity pretty much constantly. From what I know of Alabama in the summer it is pretty much the same. I don't think where Raybo is, it is very humid at all. Maybe tomato plants need to transpire more in humid weather than in non humid weather? Could that be why my soil was never wet, even with 2 4" diameter wicking chambers?

WOK, last year I grew two plants in a SWC with the large wicking basket...I believe it was 7"x9" or so. The one they had at HD.
My plants thrived, but...here is the kicker. Both varieties tasted bland, gross, tastless. I am sure it was because the wicking basket was wayyy to big, making my medium way too wet, in turn, making my Toms insipid.

I am making 4 new ones this year with the small 4x4 basket.

I also own an Earthbox. The two wicking chambers in them are quite small. Only a couple inched square each.

Funny, I always figured you didn't NEED much more than a small wicking basket. That's why I did a small one. Now I'm really glad I did.

I'm wondering what role humidity plays a role in all this. Here in Ohio, when it gets hot, it is 85-100% humidity pretty much constantly.

Huge.

Transpiration occurs because there is a difference in outside air humidity and plant water content (100%). The drier it is, the more transpiration (because of greater potential difference between air and plant). Many desert plants have a special metabolism that closes their stomata during the day and opens them at night to respire so they don't lose too much water to the dry desert air.

Anyway, here in dry, often windy Colorado I have to watch my containers, shade them, and ensure that the pots always have adequate moisture. BER is a constant threat.

Dan

Posted by dan_staley USDA 5/S 2b (My Page) on Mon, Feb 16, 09 at 17:53

Huge.

Transpiration occurs because there is a difference in outside air humidity and plant water content (100%). The drier it is, the more transpiration (because of greater potential difference between air and plant). Many desert plants have a special metabolism that closes their stomata during the day and opens them at night to respire so they don't lose too much water to the dry desert air.

Anyway, here in dry, often windy Colorado I have to watch my containers, shade them, and ensure that the pots always have adequate moisture. BER is a constant threat.

Dan

Really? Seems counterintuitive judging by my results. I had two 4" diameter wicking chambers in 18 gallons and never had a wetness problem. Raybo and others in dry climates report a wetness problem with less wicking area.

gary - yeah...I could see that causing a problem. Hmmm....you've got me thinking now.

jleiwig - As you know, it's hotter than 400 hell down here in the summer, and very humid. I've got 2 tainers for one type of tomato, and will have to do some experimenting with it.

bdobs - Really? I've never thought about that...Of course, I've never had a setup like this, either.

Crap....I'm confused.

EG

EG: Ditto. Hehe, then again I've stopped trying to figure out what you guys are talking about for a while. I know my SWC produces amazing tomato plants, so I'll just do it like I did it last year and hope for the best.

jleiwig,

it is basic botany - the SPAC - soil-plant-air continuum, and the potential difference causing the transpiration via stomatal openings. Your results don't negate physics and Van der Waals forces.

As to why your results are what what they are, well, that's part of the appeal of gardening and why there are so many fun experiments here to read about and why I ask you to post your results to see what I can learn.

I haven't looked at these Raybo comments, but here in Denver area, my toms in the raised bed next to the house shut down last year for 22 days in the heat - little addition to leaf area, no bloom set, no nothin'. The heat shut down their metabolism, and if they had been in SWCs, I don't see how the soil wouldn't be too moist, as capillary action will pull moisture to all pore spaces until saturation.

Dan

The heat shut down their metabolism, and if they had been in SWCs, I don't see how the soil wouldn't be too moist, as capillary action will pull moisture to all pore spaces until saturation.

Dan - Is this your opinion, if a person was using the original wicking basket, which makes the soil too wet? If so, it sounds like I really need to modify my baskets. My summer heat is brutal, and I want the best results from these swc's.

This is a great thread! Very informative....

EG

EG:

The reason why soil saturates in these containers in the issue (way) above, IMHO, is capillarity.

The wicks transfer moisture to the entire soil medium via capillarity. The toms in turn should transpire water faster than the wicks can supply moisture to constantly saturate, (the medium in toto doesn't have all its pore spaces sitting at 100% saturation 100% of the time). In my mind (no experience here), if the wicks are too small, the toms will put feeder roots down into the water. But the toms can't lift their roots out of saturated soil, so saturation is a greater danger than wilting (again, no direct experience, just much lab work in school). In excessive heat (over, say, 92-95º depending upon variety), many of the stomata shut down and there is no transpiration, allowing greater chance at soil saturation.

The issue, in my mind, presuming the saturation premise is true, is the plastic bags on top of the soil cause less chance for vapor to escape (in addition to via the plant stomata). I am making my SWCs with landscape fabric in place of plastic, and a bit of wood mulch on top of fabric for some gas exchange and a tiny bit of vapor escape.

I'm learning a lot from this thread as well - evidenced by my going out and purchasing 18 gals...

Dan

Dan, you're making my brain hurt. Ouch! Ha! No...really, I understand what you're saying. You'll have to share your experiment results with us later. Thanks for sharing all of your thoughts.

EG

Posted by dan_staley USDA 5/S 2b (My Page) on Mon, Feb 16, 09 at 23:05

EG:
The reason why soil saturates in these containers in the issue (way) above, IMHO, is capillarity.

The wicks transfer moisture to the entire soil medium via capillarity. The toms in turn should transpire water faster than the wicks can supply moisture to constantly saturate, (the medium in toto doesn't have all its pore spaces sitting at 100% saturation 100% of the time). In my mind (no experience here), if the wicks are too small, the toms will put feeder roots down into the water. But the toms can't lift their roots out of saturated soil, so saturation is a greater danger than wilting (again, no direct experience, just much lab work in school). In excessive heat (over, say, 92-95º depending upon variety), many of the stomata shut down and there is no transpiration, allowing greater chance at soil saturation.

The issue, in my mind, presuming the saturation premise is true, is the plastic bags on top of the soil cause less chance for vapor to escape (in addition to via the plant stomata). I am making my SWCs with landscape fabric in place of plastic, and a bit of wood mulch on top of fabric for some gas exchange and a tiny bit of vapor escape.

I'm learning a lot from this thread as well - evidenced by my going out and purchasing 18 gals...

Dan

I'll defer to you on the plant pathology Dan. I'll just keep experimenting to get the perfect comprimise with my containers and I'll report back here.

BTW, I was in HD yesterday and they had black 18 gallon tubs for 3.99. Not sure if it was just a local thing or not. Would work great for those in northern climates where they didn't see much heating from the sun.

BTW, I was in HD yesterday and they had black 18 gallon tubs for 3.99. Not sure if it was just a local thing or not.

I'll check it out. One can always paint them or drape landscape fabric. I'm interested to hear how your season goes.

Dan

I was considering trying to make a SWC for growing tomatoes this year, but was concerned about the cost and the fact that I'm not very handy when it comes to building things. I've seen SWC in Wal-mart, and they have fairly large one that is only $10.00. It seems like it would be large enough for one tomato plant. However, at first glance I'm not sure the reservoir is large enough. Has anyone tried these?

I had a friend grow a dwarf cherry in one, but if you don't stay on top of the watering during the summer the whole thing can go south quickly. Once it dries out, it's almost impossible to get it back.

I don't think you would have any problems constructing one, and there may be someone close to you who could possibly help.

I looked around, but there's so much going on that I don't know exactly what to comment on .....

Al

Al,

Ideal growing conditions inside the container is what Dan and I were debating. I'm trying to eliminate as many variables in the tomato growing process by using the SWCs.

I know your big on the composted pine bark fines, but I haven't found anything locally that I would put in my containers. Most of it looks like junk with some dirt and some big pieces of bark in their "fines"

I'm also debating about going with turface or axis or the napa stuff that is supposed to be the same as axis in place of vermiculite/perlite.

So basically my mix would be peat and one of the above ammendments. I wouldn't be worried about compaction since I'm not top watering, but will be bottom watering with a nutrient solution.

Thoughts? Please opine master of the container! :)

I'm not going to read your debate, because I'd rather express a (hopefully) fresh opinion & go from there. I'll be honest, I know how the SWCs work, but I've never used them, so I sure don't consider myself expert on their use. There probably are some areas where I might be helpful, though. Maybe we can all work together if we can agree that ideal conditions would be all of the particles in the container at moisture levels of 45-90% of their water holding capacity, no perched water, and the level of all nutrients maintained at levels high enough to prevent any deficiencies, yet low enough that water can still be absorbed (by the plant) easily. That would make our chore out to be how to figure out a feasible way to get close to those ideal conditions.

What do you think?

Al

Posted by tapla z5b-6a MI (My Page) on Thu, Feb 19, 09 at 22:07

I'm not going to read your debate, because I'd rather express a (hopefully) fresh opinion & go from there. I'll be honest, I know how the SWCs work, but I've never used them, so I sure don't consider myself expert on their use. There probably are some areas where I might be helpful, though. Maybe we can all work together if we can agree that ideal conditions would be all of the particles in the container at moisture levels of 45-90% of their water holding capacity, no perched water, and the level of all nutrients maintained at levels high enough to prevent any deficiencies, yet low enough that water can still be absorbed (by the plant) easily. That would make our chore out to be how to figure out a feasible way to get close to those ideal conditions.
What do you think?

Al

Ok...I can ride the train so far. I would like to propose two additional criterion to you. In honor of Raybo's earthtainer project for third world countries, I'd like to see if we could come up with different mixes from readily available products(I'm not sure what they would have available to fill his earthtainers in Guatamala?) and second I'd like to look into benefits of the fertilizer strip versus using a water soluble solution in the resevoir. Something like Peters 20-20-20 isn't very expensive, and at Cornell in the CEA ponds, that's what they use.

Ok - ... no sense in a lengthy dissertation, 90% of which you guys have prolly already covered & have under your belts, so let's see if I can help with any questions to get the ball rolling.

Before I get too committed though, I just want to say that I'm perfectly willing to offer whatever help I can, but I don't want to get bogged down in lengthy disagreements over minute points. I think you understand how time consuming it can quickly become. I'm not saying I want anyone to refrain from taking an alternate position, I just don't want anyone to come gunning for me. ;o)

Al

I would like to propose two additional criterion to you. In honor of Raybo's earthtainer project for third world countries, I'd like to see if we could come up with different mixes from readily available products(I'm not sure what they would have available to fill his earthtainers in Guatamala?) and second I'd like to look into benefits of the fertilizer strip versus using a water soluble solution in the resevoir. Something like Peters 20-20-20 isn't very expensive

Great idea, as I'm currently garden testing an inexpensive solar soil heater for coldframes - a package of inexpensive solutions could be a great benefit...

First, EG, I can't seem to find the ref you speak of in the bquote - will you plz provide a link?

Second, the mix is an education tool for good soil husbandry, so perhaps we can expand to the ground as well.

Third, IMO the water-soluble should not be a petrochemical (cost).

Dan

No worries from me Al...everything I know about SWCs, I've said in this thread. Everything else will come from other knowledge or experience gained this growing season in my container experiements.

Dan, I'm not sure what you're referring to....

EG

Raybo's earthtainer project for third world countries

Dan

Dan - I've never seen anything concerning using them in third world countries. Maybe Raybo has posted something in another forum? jleiwig was the one that mentioned it in this thread....You could probably go to earthtainer.org and find it.

jleiwig - I think that's an excellent idea. Find readily available components to form an adequate mix...

I spent a little time today modifying the wicking baskets in all 6 of my earthtainers, thanks to a little information from tapla and Dan. I sure am glad the 'tainers weren't put into operation yet. It should work like a charm...

EG

I saw that wick in another forum EG. I see now why you were asking about foil. You are a few days ahead of me with your Sterilites and I'll start mine mid-week. My wicks are yogurt tubs. [/tightwad] I got the go-ahead to do potatoes in the tops of the cut tubs, so maybe I'll make more SWCs...

Dan

Dan, you are correct. That is the origin of the other post. I'm gonna shoot you an email.

EG

I'm a newbie to SWCs. I bought six 30ga Sterlite totes for $8.99 each at Meijer today to make 3 of these things (raincheck used from 4 weeks ago when Meijer was sold out). I also went to Home Depot and bought eight 3cuft peat bales for $6.40 each. The material is extremely dry, so I dumped it all out on top of my SFG (we're due for more rain tonight). Hope that wasn't a bad thing to do. Lowes sells 3.8cuft peat bales for $9.97 in case anyone was wondering.

I was planning to simply make Mel's mix and use that for the SWCs. It sounds like maybe I should forego the compost and find some large bags of perlite. I recently bought several 18lb bags of vermiculite and was going to use that, but I don't want my SWC to be a failure in Kentucky (similar to high humidity in Ohio, but gets very hot and later dry with patchy rain in the early summer - which always seems to miss my area *grumble*). I was planning to buy a cubic yard (or two) of compost from a bulk materials place I have used the last couple years (only $10 for a cubic YARD of compost made from Kentucky thoroughbred horse poo). Hmm... Maybe my strategy should be 70% peat (scooped off garden), 20% vermiculite and the 10% perlite? I figured it would cost less for me to make enough mix myself than buying Miracle Grow mix (plus it is more fun to make it yourself)

HD only has the 9"X9" plant baskets. I hope I won't have a tough time finding the 4"x4" ones mentioned here. I think all the hydroponics stores in my area are only open 9-5pm type hours which is difficult for me due to the next possible weekday for me to have off is in late March.

I'll keep tabs on this thread. I have learned alot already and am excited to get started, but being cautious since I have never constructed a SWC and have already spent more money than I probably should have. ;)

The only problem I see with dumping it on your garden is that your taking the chance of introducing foreign particles or pests into your containers. The better approach would have been to put it in the tubs and wet it with a hose.

I may make one or two of these this spring, so I need to know, what do you do with them in winter? Do you let them go completely dry? Do you move them or leave them? Do you have problems with freezing/busting? Do you reuse soil every year?

Well too late for spilling the peat all over the SFG.. we had a massive downpour this morning with thunder and lightning and the peat looks very wet now. I suppose I will scoop it off the top and put some back in the plastic wrap since I still need to actually construct the SWCs. I can think of it as free hydration since I didn't have to use a hose\city water to wet it. My little SFG gave me about 4-6" of peat, so I can scoop it down to 1" and not touch the garden soil to minimize contaminants.

Posted by alys Zone 5/6 - MO (My Page) on Fri, Feb 27, 09 at 9:17

I may make one or two of these this spring, so I need to know, what do you do with them in winter? Do you let them go completely dry? Do you move them or leave them? Do you have problems with freezing/busting? Do you reuse soil every year?

I personally removed the soil from them and put in in my sq ft bed so that I would be able to stack them together in my shed for storage. Others just leave them out to the elements.

Since I'm experimenting this year, I figured I would start with fresh potting mix.

Small basket

http://www.petsupplydirect.net/round-pond-basket-small-5-x-5-x-4-h.html

Raybo;
The "My Earthtainer Project - Mistakes Made / Lessons Learned".
Has filled up no further posting allowed, but I see some others that were posting there so I guess I will continue here.
If anyone wants they can see my suggestions and pictures on that thread, and from others that might be of benefit.

My last post was an Idea to use a small aquarium pump and air stone to force air under the aeration bench, for better O2 gas exchange to the root system. As an aside I also mentioned it may help mosquitoes from breeding by the agitation of the water.

Next thing I see are all these suggestions about mosquitoes THAT was not the point of the post, I want to create the IDEAL growing conditions, as much as possible outside of a greenhouse. (Reason for using earthtainers to start with).

When I first told my neighbors I was going to grow 8 ft tomato plants they did not believe me until I showed them photos of Raybos boxes.

Here is a link to a plant at epcot center that has produced 32,000 fruits that is 32k not a typo.

http://www.wdwnews.com/ViewImage.aspx?ImageID=101932

To be continued on next post I do not know if GW has a limit on post size.

alan

Raybo;

As I stated the air pump is just an experiment and the more people that try it the better results we will all get.

I do not think that 32k tomatoes that this plant that came from China is typical or else they would be exporting them. (Like everything else you seem to buy today).

If this increased the viably of the plant even 10 to 15% to me it would be worth it as the cost will be low.

Photo of "air bench"

Photo of Trailer with modification to removable cages.

Happy gardening

Alan

Raybo;

I see others here on thread or on other threads seem to think that using 2 Rubbermaid containers is a waste. (Hope none of you have thrown them out). But with the removable cage design are even more valuable.

1. Easily built cold frame (which has been posted before by others).
2. After all frost remove plastic and replace with screen (use when high winds or storms forecast) and if you forget to remove in the morning will not bake the plants.
3. BUGS provide a physical barrier to nocturnal insects laying eggs on your plants
No Chemicals (most bug activity I see is at night).

For these reasons I will not reattach my cages until it is a necessity to do so. But by then hopefully the plants will be strong enough to ward of any attacks.

Just another attempt to provide an Ideal environment for growth.

In the photo of the trailer you can see one of the cold frames. Just a 2 inch band of scrap with 4 sheet metal screws holding it through the clear plastic.

alan

Information on Raybo's Earthtainer II

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