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momof4andaman

so confused and need some help

21 years ago

I want to start a garden and everything i have read about the sq. ft gardening or lazagna garden seems so perfect. My kids are grown and in college - husband had a heart attack and now i need peace of mind and a nice yard and garden seems to be my place to turn to. My question is what type of wood should i start out with to create the borders of the lazagna garden because i think (I just me) can accomplish this on my own. Then since i don't have a compose pile would I be allowed to use dirt from the landscape business down the road. And my yard is huge but very very hard to dig - so I have rambled on long enough but would appreciate any help you could give me....as depression is at my back door and i don't want to let it in and i think this just might help.

thank you all - debbie

Comments (9)

  • 21 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Debbie,

    Foremost, you and your family are in my prayers. I wish you nothing but strength because we are going through some similar things and God knows we need as much as we can in these situations.

    Okay, as a disclaimer, I have to tell you that what I am sharing with you is in theory only, as I have not yet grown anything in a square foot garden. I HAVE, however, helped maintain a very large regular garden and I did build a square foot garden this year for the first time, so again this is all 'booksmarts' but I do have practical garden experience and I have done quite a bit of research on square foot gardening, so here goes:

    Regarding the square foot garden, there are quite a few different materials that I have heard used to make the borders. For instance, people use wood, patio blocks, bricks, cinder blocks, etc, basically anything non-toxic that will hold the soil in. That being said, make sure you do NOT use pressure-treated wood to build your frame. What I used was 2-by-6 douglass fir, untreated. I built 6, 4-foot by 4-foot beds, a total of 96 feet of 2-by-6 douglass fir, and it cost me $96.00, cut. Again you could probably do this more cheaply, but just make sure to stay away from pressure-treated lumber. I have even heard of untreated pine used successfully, although after a few years you will probably have to replace it.

    Next, obviously, and as you have pointed out, you want the best soil you can find. My recommendation is to call around and ask for organic topsoil. Make sure you ask where it is from. If it's from some farm in the midwest, you probably don't want it, as there are quite a few inorganic and organic pesticides that you don't want in your garden, and all of the trace nutrients have probably been sucked out and it's all chemical fertilizer in there. I would do it this way: get the best organic topsoil you can find, and amend it with peat moss, which will keep the soil aerated, add a small amount of lime, which will balance the pH and add calcium, add epsom salts, which will add magnesium and trace minerals, and use fish emulsion for nitrogen and kelp/seaweed suspension for potassium and phosphorous. If you can find chicken manure that is an excellent fertilizer as well I understand (never used it myself although I will try it next year). Once you grow this year then you can begin the lasagna method where you are adding mulched leaves, and whatever else you would like to compost. I understand adding coffee grounds, banana and other fruit peels, and whatever else 'organic' adds tremendous nutrients to the soil. I would introduce earthworms, if you don't already have them, into the bed, because they aerate the soil, and keep it very well-fertilized.

    Despite the fact that your yard is hard to dig, I would, at this point in the year, turn the soil once, only below where the beds are going to be. Add amendments to the soil, rake out the weeds and grass while mixing amendments in, and put newspaper over it. Place the beds over the newspaper, then put the topsoil over the newspaper. I know a lot of people say you can just put cardboard over the existing grass to kill it but I would question whether the roots of your garden veggies can penetrate cardboard that has only been mulching for a month. In short, agreed that the last thing you want is grass growing up through your beds, however I think if you turn the soil once, rake out the weeds and grass roots, and put newspaper over it and put the topsoil on top you have pretty much ensured that you will not have any problems with grass, and your veggies will be able to root through the wet newspaper after a very short time.

    I would also recommend grabbing a copy of Mel Bartholemew's square foot gardening book, usually available used at amazon.com. It's really worth it, I have read a good deal of the book and he gives tons of valuable info. Check it out if you get a chance. You may also be able to get a copy from the public library.

    Just to let you know, I know that I made it sound like a lot of work but it actually is much less work than a regular garden. You want this to be a source of happiness and relaxation for you, not stress, and I firmly believe that once you get going it will be a breeze. I think it will be easy for you and I believe that you will really enjoy it.

    Some questions: how many beds are you considering? What is the total amount of space that you are looking to use? What would you like to grow?

    Mark in NJ

  • 21 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Time outside is good for the mind.

    On digging under the beds, I've tried it both ways, including at least two times where I had side by side areas where part was turned and part was not, and have found absolutely no difference in performance. Though wet cardboard will generally stop a thick seed leaf from pushing thorugh, microcopic feeder roots can push right through, and once through, they can grow to expand and push the steadily less solid paper out of the way as they expand. After trying it twice and seeing no differnece, I'd seen enough to never want to dig again, even if there is a marginal difference in some areas, I don't see how it could be enough to be make digging pay off.

  • 21 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Ray is well-known on here for his practical experience and knowledge of square foot gardening. If he says it, go with what he says.

    Ray, now that I have dug the garden plot out, turned and amended the soil, when I lay down the beds and the topsoil, if I use only 2 layers of newspaper above the original plot, is that enough to stop the grass underneath? I think I got it all but am a bit paranoid about having grass grow up through the beds. I could get the rest of the cardboard but it would be a bit of a hassle at this point. If you think it's worth it I will go for it...

  • 21 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Mark, it sounds like you'll have a great garden!

    Debbie -- I've been suffering with depression for a long time, so I can give advice from that perspective, if you want it. This really can be easy, especially if you start small. My tiny square foot garden has really felt worthwile, even when much else doesn't. I really look forward to getting out and seeing what's different in the garden every day.

    As for your questions, you can make the raised bed with plain old untreated spruce/pine/fir lumber. I built mine with 2" by 8" lumber with no preservatives, no paint, no waterproofing. My first bed is going on three years old and in fine shape. I'd say it will last another two or three years.

    For the soil, I might hesitate to use the landscape company's soil, only because I guess it would be low in organic matter; better might be compost or a soil/compost mix from the same company. I went with the standard "Mel's mix": 1/3 compost, 1/3 peat moss (or coir fiber), 1/3 vermiculite. I didn't have a compost pile either (I do now!), so I bought bags. And I had great first-year results! And a really fun texture to dig in.

    Make things easy on yourself. Just put down cardboard or newspapers over the grass and fill your raised bed on top of it. Worked well for me, even over clayish soil. Ray, I'm glad to hear of your little experiment, thanks!

    My last suggestion is to start small. I started with one 4-foot by 4-foot bed. So much less overwhelming: easier to start, easier to keep up with, easier to relax and take pleasure in. You can always add more next year.

    Oh, like Mark said, get the book if you possibly can -- it is very encouraging, fun and easy to read, and has everything you need to know.

    I agree that getting outside and growing a few things can do wonders for the mind. So, plop down some cardboard, knock together some boards, fill it up, and give it a try!

  • 21 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Groovy:
    After the trouble of digging, any paper would just be insurance, two sheets should be enough to stop the majority of the seeds still close enough to the surface to germinate. To borrow from Riff's comments: Make things easy on yourself. (But as a qualification, all bets are off if you have bermuda, bamboo, or blackberries within 20' of the garden.))

    Riff: The first experiment was a combination of necessity and running out of steam, the second was more formal to verify what I'd experienced the first time around. The only consistent pattern is that a bed does better the longer in advance its prepared - a bed in its first season is still settling in no matter how its prepared, but after that a second season bed shows no difference when compared to one in its seventh, provided both get a fresh layer of compost every planting cycle.

  • 21 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    This is probably going to sound corny...but
    When I posted my question - i felt really dumb but got to thinking that maybe someone out there might think i wasnt totally crazy in wanting to start this project (and on my own) so to make a long story very short that is coming from my heart........i can't tell you how good it felt reading your responses and i am going to go to home depot today and start my project - i can use a hammer, saw, drill and i just know i can do this.

    Once again Thank you from the bottom of my heart - cause it's a lonely old world out here in Indiana right now.

    Smiles from my heart :) Debbie

  • 21 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I agree with most of what was said and would encourage you not only to grow veggies and things you love to eat, but also flowers which always cheer me up.
    We have solid clay rock hard soil-- can't dig four inches down. Therefore -- I ditched the idea of digging in it and laid my soil on top. I personally wouldn't use topsoil of any kind in my garden and would emphasize that the quality of your soil will directly relate to the enjoyment and quality of what you sow! If money or time were to be spent I would put it into soil and amendments-- with compost being my first choice, and peat moss being a close second. Some may argue that vermiculite as mel reccommends is not necessary-- but I know my carrots would never survive without it. My father has successfully used the lasagna way of gardening for a couple of years now, and loves it, anywhere he wants more planting space he just piles up his layers and goes to town. I might add-- he doesn't put borders of any kind around them and instead just mulches good so they don't wash away. I just built my beds out of concrete blocks and they look just fine, were easy to build too. In short I would say -- I've gained alot of satisfaction and joy from my gardening, SFG and lasgna beds are by far and away the way to go to make it more pleasurable, don't fight the ground you've got, just plunk the perfect mix on top-- you won't regret it, and good luck to you!

  • 21 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    How is your garden coming? I call gardening therapy. It clears your head of everything else for as long as you're out there!

  • 21 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    bump! Same question as October ... How are you and your garden? I want to start a small garden as therapy too. =)

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