Pastor Steve,
A very good question. I will let Carolyn or some of the others answer most of it as they do a lot better job than I do. I will give a few conclusions and opinions I have. The Brandywines are like so many others. There are some that are related and others that aren't. There are two versions with the Red Brandywine name that got started by a commercial source if I remember right. But from what I know aren't related to the Red Brandywine Landis strain. I grew them side by side and not the same for sure. I'm going to grow some Pink Brandywine PL this year from seeds where a grower has selected those that produce and taste the best for several years. I call that a selection. May not be the correct term. It is still the same variety and even strain just a selection that has went on in this case several years.
Yes I agree sometimes it can get confusing. Best to do research and know what they should grow and look like. I've learned the hard way from growing wrong versions and thinking I was growing the real deal. JD

Will the real Brandywine please stand up?

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It's been standing up for a very long time now. LOL

Brandywine, the pink one, is PL and does have a number of strains, but strains can be either a Brandywine with a persons name attached, or a strain that is slightly different from the original in some way but can still be IDed as the original.

Each person who grows Brandywine does not create a personal strain.

I know several folks who have grown many so called strains of Brandywine in the same season and they are all pretty much the same but some feel that Brandywine (Sudduth/Quisenberry) is perhaps the best one b'c it's smoother than others, tastes better and sets fruits better, but that's a personal opinion for those who have grown it.

And I happen to agree with that opinion having grown several different strains over the years.

So the major known heirloom Brandywines are:

Brandywine, pink and PL, several so called strains are known

Yellow Brandywine, matures gold, PL, one strain, Platfoot is known.

Red Brandywine, red, RL, no strains but a lot of wrong seed out there, some RL, some PL, and NOT Red Brandywine

others include:

Black Brandywine, PL, but has shown genetic instability and TGS who were the first to offer it b'c the original cross that it arose from as in Brandywine X unknown black, occurred in the growing fields of a seed producer they were dealing with at the time,have deleted it from their listings.

Purple Brandywine, better known as Marizol Bratka, is dark pink and PL, bred by Joe Bratka

OTV Brandywine, red with orange shoulders, PL, the result of a natural cross between Yellow Brandywine and ???, PL

And there are other varieties with Brandywine as part of the name and what they have in common is that they all have Brandywine as part of their parentage.

(but when does a cross-breed type become a "hybrid" and cease being an heirloom)

Whether the origin is from a natural cross pollination or from a deliberate cross, that hybrid is then dehybridized to the OP state by making selections from the growout of the F2 seeds saved from the initial hybrid. Make a selection from the F2 growout, make that same selection again, F3 seeds, and keep making it until all seeds sowed give rise to the same plant/fruit, at which time it's called an OP.

The first three family heirlooms I listed have been OP and stable for many years, so the comments I just made about dehybridization would apply to the second three I listed above and many other OP varieties that started out as either natural or deliberate crosses between Brandywine and something else.

Marizol Bratka and OTV Brandywine are both genetically stable OP varieties. Black Brandywine seems not to be stable for everyone who grows it,as I noted above.

The only variety I know of with Brandywine as part of the name where seeds are sold as an F1 hybrid is Brandy Boy.

Carolyn

if you save your own seeds, how long before your "strain" becomes tainted if you don't isolate the plant totally from other's in your garden...
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The "strain" will NEVER become tainted without cross pollination.

There is only a 5% chance of cross pollination if blooms are NOT bagged.

Good luck,

John

Jel

the outcrossing rate for most Brandywines is probably higher, in fact one study put it around 20% (which likely explains parts of the mess Carolyn mentioned - that 20% may also be tied to timing and insect populations)

Pastor_Steve

Do they actually "adapt" to your own soil / location and become their own stain after awhile?

Because of tomato's breeding system this does not really happen. Such things occur or are problems in crops which outbreed (usually wind carries their pollen like wheat/rye see Lev 19:19) and are called landraces. Crops like tomatoes could adapt if there is some mutation or favorable variation in a large enough population by chance.

Open pollinated lines are actually NOT as uniform in large populations. If one doesn't believe me grow out several hundred seeds of one variety from a known source considered "stable" and I can show you the variation. That is one reason hybrids are favored by growers - greater uniformity in performance and field stand.

With a careful eye and selection you can overtime select and maintain a strain - however adapting to local conditions is more problematic than a strain with a color change or size variation.

Last year, I decide to grow Brandywine after reading so many positive reviews on GW. Ordered it from a commercial seed company. No strain mentioned, just "Brandywine." It was a big disappointment. Better than store bought, of course, but nowhere near the descriptions IÂd read. This year, I plan to grow Black Brandywine acquired from a seed swap.

Mule,

the outcrossing rate for most Brandywines is probably higher, in fact one study put it around 20%
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A good argument for bagging blooms........

John