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iam3killerbs

The Perpetual Tomato Support Problem

15 years ago

Once again I'm faced with the question of how to keep the tomatoes off the ground. I have never, in the 25 years since I got married and left my Dad's collection of 8-foot locust stakes* behind, found anything that adequately met the following criteria:

1. Sturdiness: Able to hold indeterminate beefsteaks upright in a thunderstorm. Part of sturdiness is termite-resistance. 8ft wooden furring strips were doing well summer before last until the build-up of termite damage in August and September had stakes breaking at ground-level a good month before harvest was complete.

2. Tall: Until last summer DH continued to insist that 5ft would be enough like it was in New England. Then improved soil fertility and better watering systems created 8-9ft monsters (I think that the Juliets, which collapsed under their own weight in the twine cage twice probably hit 15ft total growth). I'm aiming for 7 feet above the ground since that's about as high as I can reach on tiptoe.

3. CHEAP: The recession hit us hard. DH has been just able to keep his business afloat while my company has, over the past month, cut our hours back from 50/week to 32/week. I'm feeding 7 people on a 4 person food budget and the garden must produce significantly more in food value than it has in input costs THIS YEAR.

4. Presentable: We live in town on a corner lot. The garden is not only fully visible from the road but is also 50 feet from one neighbor's pool and 20 feet from another neighbor's patio. A collection of rusting bedframes and such yardsale and trash day finds doesn't cut it. It doesn't have to be beautiful -- its a moderate-income, blue-collar town -- but it has to be neat.

5. Moveable: Must be able to rotate the tomatoes so the otherwise excellent option of fixing tall 4x4's at each end of the garden and securing a cable between them from which I can hang netting, strings, etc. doesn't work. (Wonderful option if you're starting with a piece of property that has and old-fashioned pair of metal-T clotheline supports already in place).

6. New criterion added this year -- Allowing Sufficient Airflow: Thanks to the knowledgeable gardeners here I believe that my rotting on the vine issue was fungal and due to excessive humidity. So I think cage-type arrangements are out.

With the prices on copper or PVC pipe skyrocketing I am out of ideas for tall, cost-effective, termite-proof stakes/fence/trellis supports.

Ideas?

*8ft locust stakes, 1.5-2" in diameter cut from our own woodlot were the most perfect tomato support imaginable. They lasted years, the bark held the ties securely with no slippage, they cost nothing but time, and with at least a foot sunk into the heavy, clay soil and anchored with a few rocks never went over no matter how violent the weather. Sigh.

Comments (26)

  • 15 years ago

    Here's a suggestion..I used a number or years until I made something permanent..
    Materials needed: (2)- 10' long 3" post or treated 4x4 if you prefer..
    Wire-14 gauge aluminum or steel (as much as needed for each row)
    2- turnbuckles.
    Roll of hay baling twine.. Total cost around $35-$40
    Place The 3" posts at the end of each row of tomatoes, one on one end,one on the other. Have them at least 2' in the ground.
    Attach the turnbuckles, one to ea. post.
    Run wire from one end to the other, attached to turn buckles.Draw wire tight and secure..
    Attach twine to wire a spacing of plants.secure twine at ground level either to the plants them self or something like a tent stake.I've done both..and no the wind won't pull them up..If you get winds that strong it would kill the plants anyway.
    As the tomatoes grow, just weave the twine around the new growth.
    Use the turnbuckles to tighten wire as needed.
    Hope this helps..

  • 15 years ago

    *Free* bamboo is a good cheap material to make trellises of all kinds. You could make a four-point a-frame around each individual plant, with horizontal support at the top, and lash on horizontal supports (which can be made from thinner bamboo stalks) at various heights on the frame as needed. You can tie branches down to the supports, use string hung from the top horizontal support, etc.

    I've made fairly short 6 ft high frames that supported indeterminate plants from thin bamboo that was only .5" thick and maybe 8 ft tall. If you can get your hand on 1" bamboo stalks or thicker, even better. But this stuff is very strong, a lot stronger than people think at first glance.

    Note this is only cheap if you live in a place where bamboo (cane) is easily available for free. Often people on Craigslist will offer all the bamboo you care to haul if you are willing to cut it. If you live in a place where there is bamboo growing in large groves out in rural areas, people might give it to you simply for asking. Buying the dry bamboo from garden stores like I see here in Seattle is ridiculously expensive considering how easy this stuff is to find for free in many places... chances are it is plentiful throughout the Gulf area and Southern US, but maybe not so much in NC.

    The green bamboo takes a few months to dry out and harden, but if it is thick I imagine green bamboo is strong enough to do the job. Also, if you need to anchor it to the ground, lashing the bamboo frame to construction stakes driven deeper into the ground can probably do the job.

    Whether or not it is aesthetically pleasing to you and your neighbors is another question. :)

  • 15 years ago

    My husband made tomato cages last year for about $4 each using concrete wire remesh. He purchased a roll of the remesh at Lowe's, made enough cages for us to use, and sold the rest that he'd made from the roll on craigslist -- so the cages paid for themselves. They can be stacked on top of each other as the plant grows -- we had some 16 feet high. They allow the plants to look quite attractive. This link has directions plus a how-to video. Hope this helps Good luck!

    Here is a link that might be useful: How build tomato cages for support

  • 15 years ago

    I've heard of using pvc pipe so I tried some this year. The pipe itself is not very expensive but the T and right angle joint costs do add up. Some other shapes like an x or 30/ 60* that would be useful are not available so it would take 2 T's to make up an x. I want to be able to take them apart so didn't glue them so have some trouble with them coming apart. It would be possible to drill holes in the overlap and put in a screw. Once built the cages are handy. I don't know how many seasons I would get out of them. I also used them as a framework to cover the tomatoes with plastic to keep them warmer and prevent frost/blight damage.

    I supplemented with my former method, one end strong T-post at each end of a 2-row bed. Wooden cross-pieces at 2 to 3 levels on the T-post held 2 wires that ran down the beds and had tomato cages and bamboo poles at intervals to hold up the wires. It is a lot of work tying up vines to the wires/bamboo. A bad year like last year is making it seem not worth it for this next season.:-(

    I think I'm growing more greens and bush beans instead.

    I have running bamboo. It is worth it's weight in gold to me, an inexhaustible source of poles. Unless it blooms.
    Mine is kept very dry in summer and does not run long distances. It is a beautiful green at this time of year.

  • 15 years ago

    Thanks for the thoughts. I may have a line on a source of free bamboo (and a guy with a machete to help cut it).

    Bamboo is certainly attractive enough. Any tips on how to work with it to create stable structures?

  • 15 years ago

    If you are going with PVC, this link may help lower your costs:

    http://www.shop.dpsbargainbasement.com/3-4-4-Way-furniture-grade-PVC-fittings-white-48-Pieces-075-4W-48-pieces.htm

    It's a 4 way 3/4" fitting. One of these at each corner removes the need for multiple types of fittings.

    A 100 pack is $58.

    10' 3/4" PVC at Lowes or Home Depot is $1.20. Cages can be continually expanded (ie add a level as the plants grow by running a new level off the top).

    These should last forever and are reasonably attractive v. rusting wire. At the end of the season they'll break down and store easilty in a garbage bag or can - only 1 connector for all joins and 2 lengths of pipe - 1 for the horizontal sides of the cage and one for the (30"?) horizontal run between levels.

    I'm debating building a couple of these for the really huge plants - like the Matt's Wild Cherry in lieu of double stacking the Burpee cages I've acquired over the years. Plus it gives me a winter gardening outlet while all this white stuff is still on the ground (and lots of it!).

    Andrew

  • 15 years ago

    That's a good deal on the PVC fittings, but I don't have that kind of money to spend.

    In the absence of locust saplings, bamboo seems to be the best I can get. I just need to find out how best to work with it.

  • 15 years ago

    I think the regular T's are about $2.50 for 10 some place I shop, and using 2 to achieve a right angle corner, so buying 20 packages just comes to $50. The x's cost more. But maybe they would make for a stronger structure. One advantage to the T's is that when they are connecting two pieces they can swivel to make like the peak of a roof or a sloped roof.

    I like the T-posts and wires running the length of the bed for stabilization. Just bamboo poles by themselves tend to flop unless you can get them pretty far into the ground- I can't. I tie the bamboo to the wires and it gets a lot more stable. When I used the PVC cages this last year I ended up putting the wires in because I could see I wasn't getting enough support and stability without them. It did take a lot of time to cut and fit all the PVC and a lot of time to tie up the tomatoes. That's why I am going to grow much fewer tomatoes this year.

    Here is a link that might be useful: my tomato house

  • 15 years ago

    If you can use the words "just comes to $50" then you've got a lot more to invest in your garden than I have to invest in mine. :-D LOL

    I just got socked with a sizable increase in my health insurance payment, my hours have been cut from 50/week to 32/week, and heaven only knows if the job will still be there next month.

    The garden is more necessity than hobby this year. Thank God I do have the ability to garden because we'll eat a lot better than laid-off co-workers who don't garden. :-)

  • 15 years ago

    I feel for you, iam3killerbs, but I didn't say I spent that much, just comparing prices. I think I only needed a few more pkgs since I was reusing the ones from the year before. I only had to buy another 3 PVC pipes. Sometimes they can be found cheap at garage sales. That's why I love my bamboo, a $10 initial purchase and all I can cut 10 years down the road. I also bought a couple of timber bamboo, they have turned out to be extremely slow growing though, but if they ever really start producing, I could get 4" diameter, and very long, canes.

    Japanese bamboo building books can be found in our local library. They have lots of cool techiques and ideas for structures. A teepee shape might be very sturdy for supporting tomatoes.

  • 15 years ago

    iam3killerbs, I think two ways to improve the stability of the bamboo is to a) build a 4-point structure around the plants (an a-frame, similar to the shape of a ladder, with a horizonal pole between the crotch at the top of the two A's and horizontal sticks between the main supports to support the branches) and b) knock one or two 2ft rebar stakes at the feet of the support and tie the support to it. If you want to save money on rebar, find something else that is sturdy enough to hammer into the ground and anchor the support. If you're not in a very windy area, maybe wooden laths or something would do the trick. Actually, you might just do it with more bamboo stakes.

    Using a four-point structure with an extra anchor was always stable enough for me, but they never had to survive a heavy storm or anything.

  • 15 years ago

    My solution does cost money but because I use it year after year, the overall cost is very cheap.

    I but 8 ft tall t-posts from a local co-op. Each year, I drive the posts in the ground on 20 ft centers with rows about 140 feet long. Eight tomato plants go between each pair of t-posts. I then run strands of hay baling twine on each side of the posts and plants to form a weave type support.

    The problem is that t-posts cost about $5 each and hay twine is about $30 per roll. You could probably get by with about 5 posts and one roll of twine which tax and all would run you about $60.

    Someone else made this graphic, but it pretty much shows what I do.

    DarJones

  • 15 years ago

    Thanks for the description and the graphic. I can't afford that because of our cash shortage/employment crisis, but that gives me an idea for the bamboo that I'll be collecting on Sunday.

    I won't know until I get there how big in either diameter or length my bamboo will be. But if I can get sizeable diameters I was thinking about setting posts and lashing crosspieces. I think it would be something of a hybrid of the conduit with mesh method and what you just described/illustrated.

  • 15 years ago

    Thanks for the drawing, Fusion, mine is similar but the cross pieces are wired onto the post, and about 5' long since each side is over a row of tomatoes- they are two rows across, the wire is a pain to put on but doesn't rot so can be used again and again. One year I used garage sale aluminum wire instead of steel or galvanized, and the whole thing sagged and dropped all the tomatoes into the mud. And it takes hours and hours of tying up and adding tomato cages and bamboo poles to keep the wires up and level. I use cut up nylon hosiery for ties or else yarn I don't want to save on costs.

  • 15 years ago

    I came up with something last year, based on stuff dcarch posted. Dcarch drew the picture fusion_power posted. I simplified the design, and made it a lot cheaper. It only required buying some 8 foot 2x2's and bailing twine. I cut stakes from fallen tree branches, so those were free. And you could cut down some saplings, and save yourself the cost of the 2x2's. I think it cost me about 20 cents/plant. And the stakes can be used for at least 2 years (at least where I live), so it's really more like 10 cents/plant per year. Poly bailing twine is really cheap, so if you already have some poles, the cost would be negligible. It held up really well to wind and thunderstorms in my gardens, but I have lots of trees, so I can't say how well it would work in an open field. But I think it would be alright. I'm planning to draw up some diagrams, and post them. But I haven't done it yet. And I'll probably take some pictures this year, at different stages throughout the season. This will be my 2nd year using this method, and I'll probably have a few refinements over last year.

  • 15 years ago

    Anyone thinking of growing their own bamboo, needs to read
    up on bamboo as running bamboo can be a real problem. I
    think there are more websites on how to get rid of bamboo
    than how to grow it. I have lots of clumping bamboo and
    also running, but that is penned in to a depth of 36". Don't
    even put running bamboo into those big pots if they have
    drain holes. Your neighbors will have bamboo and won't be
    happy with you. :)

  • 15 years ago

    The bamboo I'll be getting is from just such a stand of pest bamboo.

  • 15 years ago

    Bamboo's great stuff.
    If you have a saw or loppers, I suggest cutting the bamboo with them: it's really 'splintery' and needs to be cut cleanly or it's dangerous.
    Make sure you use older canes as the young, green ones are really soft.
    I just stake my tomatoes. Not ideal, but simple. If the bamboo's a bit thin, I lash a few together for strength.

  • 15 years ago

    Yeah, you want to saw bamboo, not use pruners because it will splinter, you will lose several inches of the pole you are cutting to vertical splits, and bamboo splinters are nasty. I have used one of those pruning saws that folds up like a jackknife, but it's kind of too thick and the teeth too course to work well with bamboo. I bet that a hacksaw with a pistol grip would probably slice right through a good sized pole in a matter of seconds.

  • 15 years ago

    I understand running bamboo doesn't work well for everyone, especially small lots that have regular watering or summer rain. But I am on 2 acres and with no rain for most of the summer, the bamboo doesn't get ANY supplemental water, and doesn't run more than a few inches. No problem at all for me. But great in the right conditions.

    Yeah, I have to be careful too about new canes. I see these nice fat green ones looking good at the base and forget to follow them up to check, and cut them only to find they are this year's new ones and have no strength yet.

  • 15 years ago

    I'll be taking a sawzall with the finest-toothed blade that I have and my helper sharpened his machete. He's cleared pest bamboo from people's yards many times.

    I'm hoping for some nice, big ones for making strong trellises but I'll take whatever I get and be grateful that its free.

  • 15 years ago

    I've been using some electrical conduit - cheaper and stronger than pvc pipe. I got some from the electritian next door until he saw what I was using it for and then he used all his scrap in HIS garden.
    I plan on trying it this summer for some framework. Maybe use the pvc connectors if I can't find what I want in the metal - has anyone done this?

  • 15 years ago

    Mel Bartholomew's Square Foot Gardening seems to have popularized the use of metal conduit for making trellises (it's pretty much the only trellising material he recommends in the older version I have), so if you were to search or ask around on the Square Foot Gardening forum you'd probably find a lot of info there. Or just google "square foot gardening trellis"

    It seems like a good idea to me, but I am too cheap to spend the money on it. If you got some material for free then it's definitely worth taking a look at this.

  • 15 years ago

    Check out the "Florida Weave" for trellising toms.

    This is a super easy and cheap way to trellis rows of whatever. Make sure you don't use sisal twine as it stretches. I use tomato tape...it doesn't cut into the plants.

    Down south (well, I'm in FL, so I mean zone 10, lol, we just used the oak branches from the Feb. pruning. You can get several very long, very sturdy branches and just use them!
    I've used bamboo, but find that it's not nearly as sturdy as the oak, which can be used for at least 3 years before they start to rot at the bottom.

    I only trellis my heirlooms because of their massive size..the rest I let do what they will...I have huge harvests every year and I have the space for it)

    The Weave is a favorite for doing rows (even in raised beds) and keeping them spaced just right and takes very little effort. I'd prune any indeterminates you decide to grow upright...not so much for fruit production, which you'll get either way, but because it opens them up a bit and it's easier to spot problems before they become real problems.

    On a personal note: I'm going to try "red mulch" this year on my Roma's because I don't stake them at all. I'll let ya'll know how that works out!

    Here is a link that might be useful: How do I use the Florida Weave?

  • 15 years ago

    Thanks again.

  • 15 years ago

    Containing runaway bamboo: We solved that problem years ago down in South Bay...running bamboo is so much prettier than clumping! Our solution, run a hose to layout your design, take corrugated metal sheets in 2' widths, drive it down flush with the ground and plant your running bamboo inside of the design. Even 80+ ft bamboo has some difficulty sending rhizomes 2 ft deep. We had it lining our driveway like oaks! In the 180 years the old homestead has been in our family, it's never overgrown it's boundaries...thought you'd be interested!

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