I see your point and cannot argue against any of them. I do feel that random is the way to go. I am ok with a lawn.

Lawns are useful sometimes, I have a few dogs so I do keep some open lawn space for them to run around in.

It really is not "tropical", but I guess we could imagine that we are upper class European colonists living in a tropical area ;-)

LOL crispy!

Good subject... Interesting & fun to think about!

That's a RUM barrel, not a whiskey barrel.

The first objective thought I had was to remove the perennial flowers. Tropical is 99% wild foliage, so if there are a bunch of flowers, especially those that are not red, that's going to spoil the effect. Not that I would want that... They are also usually short plants, tropical is a tall wall of foliage.

Cactus. Although they say "warm" they also say "dry." So many otherwise tropicalesque yards in this area have prickly pear cactus, the only thing spoiling the effect for my transplanted yankee eyes.

Rock borders / walls. Maybe something wrong in my mind's eye, but these do not look tropical to me. I know there are rocky beaches, but being from the midwest, when I think of rocks I think of farmers cursing them as they plow and lining them up at the edge of the field. Maybe I'm being too narrow thinking about "beach tropical" vs. "rainforest tropical"?

Space. There are no bare patches of ground in a tropical setting unless it's the sand next to the shoreline. Space between plants is not tropical.

I can't help it, if I had the money, I would have at least one of those unrealistic water features. The cheesier the better!

The thing I notice with the nicest tropical landscapes is that its all orgainized, but it doesnt look it at all. Plants are all over the place in a way that look random, but it's not really too random because the textures and colors and sizes all work together so no plant gets hidden in the mix. I really like the look of organized chaos, its something you cant really do with temperate landscapes, but it works great with tropicals! I try to accomplish that in my yard by incorporating a lot of different tropicals into a small area.

Also I agree with you on the water features. I do think that if the pond is done well it can make a nice, kind of realistic look though and I do like the sound of the water. Large water features with lots of tropical landscaping around it can look really nice sometimes. My favorites are the ones that are done to look real, they start at a high point in the yard you dont see because it's covered by tropical vegetation, and then it streams down the yard maybe with a small bridge or 2 crossing the stream.

I don't really have any pet peeves for tropical landscaping. As long as it's a subtropical, it usually works pretty in the landscape. The only thing I hate in the landscape are bradford pears and sometimes arborvitaes (bamboo looks much more tropical!)

I agree with purpleinopp. NO SPACE! Lucky for me I live in NYC which means I dont have a lot of space to begin with (my yard is mostly patio so I used every inch of space in the ground that I have).

I actually love lawns in the tropical landcape. If used properly it can look really beautiful. Hawaii has a lot of grass and I really can think of a place in the world (I have personally visited) that has better tropical landscapes. Just make sure that if you have a large lawn, you make up for the vast space by planting tall tropicals like palms, bananas, bamboo, plumerias, and shorter tropicals like gingers, elephant ears, and the dozens of others so they can accent the tall plants and make for a really full, lush look.

If the tropicals are planted along a fence, you should not see the fence by the end of summer, thats my rule of the thumb that tells me I did a good job!

-Alex

purpleinopp: "The first objective thought I had was to remove the perennial flowers. Tropical is 99% wild foliage, so if there are a bunch of flowers, especially those that are not red, that's going to spoil the effect. Not that I would want that... They are also usually short plants, tropical is a tall wall of foliage. "

Oh I don't know, there are some perennial flowers that look tropical- For instance, Hibiscus screams "tropical" (look at almost any "Hawaiian" shirt- it has hibiscus flowers all over it)
In the Hibiscus family there are hardy hibiscus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibiscus_moscheutos)
And also Rose of Sharon bushes, which are like small Hibiscus flowers. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibiscus_syriacus)

Cannas are very closely related to bananas, and have very similar foilage, and very colorful exotic looking flowers.
( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canna_%28plant%29)

As for rocks, you hit the head on the nail in reference to "type of tropical". There are differences between landscape between say, Hawaiian and Polynesian island tropics, the types of rock will be different. Rock walls would seem to be out of place in most tropical landscapes as far as I know. (Though China has a large tropical area and obviously the largest rock wall on Earth)

Finally, space is a big point- I think that was part of my dislike of lawns in a tropicalesque landscape- it makes too much open space.

Alex: " Large water features with lots of tropical landscaping around it can look really nice sometimes. My favorites are the ones that are done to look real, they start at a high point in the yard you dont see because it's covered by tropical vegetation, and then it streams down the yard maybe with a small bridge or 2 crossing the stream. "

Exactly- make it look like the water is really coming from a natural source.
I've gone a bit crazy, I have one small pond already, and have dug a much larger one in the last few years (still not done) and started digging a THIRD one last weekend.
None of them are round nor will they have the typical circle of rocks on the borders- the edges are buried under soil and plants on the completed pond.

It's interesting to see the different perspectives people have on what's tropical or not. Guess it comes down to experience (and probably a good measure of what movies are watched). But I think there is a difference between a tropical-looking garden and a jungle-looking garden. I've seen so many 'manicured' tropical gardens which still look very much tropical, lawns and all. Although, my preference is for the jungle look. Perhaps because I'm very much a lazy gardener. I like to set plants up in a natural setting and give them minimal attention. Sort of like, "Here's a bit of space on this bit of dirt, now go do your thing."

Now generally I find cacti a bit odd in tropical gardens. Often they won't grow well in the conditions that are required by the other plants. Of course there are some cacti that come from rainforest habitats and climb up into trees. In my view if it's an epiphyte that cancels out any other objections to it's presence in a tropical garden.

Another group that seem out of place are conifers. Mind you, there are conifers in rainforests. It's just somehow it's something that doesn't fit squarely in my mind.

Cycads also need to be watched. I don't think Cycas or Encephalartos species belong. Bowenia and some of the Zamia species do. Again, just my view.

All gardens have edges and for a tropical garden that's usually the sunniest places. I feel that's where colourful flowers belong, just like on the edge of natural jungles.

My rainforest/tropical garden is a mix of plants that stood out and seemed to call out to me, "Pick me! I belong there." Or sometimes I see photos of gardens with plants that look just right and I add them to my wish list. As long as my garden keeps getting more 'jungly' I don't mind.

Totally agree there are some tropicalesque flowering plants. I should have said "most of" (for removal.)

Totally agree about conifers not looking tropical.

Thoughts of other things... manicured hedges and meatball shrubs, and rows of anything. Not tropical.

What about deciduous trees? Not that most would go to such an extreme, but in the winter, naked trees definitely spoil the effect.

Purpleinopp:

As for Deciduous trees- I leave them, my tropicalesque garden basically disappears when winter comes. Except for some palms and bamboo, there really is no indication that it is even there until warm weather once again comes.

In winter time, my "tropical" area is my living room which is filled with 50 or more potted trees, flowers, etc.
A veritable indoor jungle.

Lets face it, if one can grow tropical vegetation year-round outdoors- then it is not tropicalesque- its tropical!

Lets face it, if one can grow tropical vegetation year-round outdoors- then it is not tropicalesque- its tropical!

Exactly. Seeing something in winter is better than nothing if its done right.

mike

"Lets face it, if one can grow tropical vegetation year-round outdoors- then it is not tropicalesque- its tropical!"

I think that's where perception comes in again. Tropical climates have as much variation in them as as temperate climates. You get tropical desert, highland, woodland, rainforest, savanna, etc. Most peoples idea of tropicalesque would probably only go as far as rainforest, and possibly highland/montane. With irrigation you could grow tropical rainforest plants in tropical desert and people would say, "Yes, that's tropicalesque".

The thing is, you create your own fantasy and you're happy with it.

crispy, that's the 2nd I've LOL'd @ something u said in this thread. Good stuff! Lets face it, if one can grow tropical vegetation year-round outdoors- then it is not tropicalesque- its tropical!

Thought of another removal I've made - snow. I had to move 800 miles south to do it, but it worked. Been here 5 years and it's snowed once. Although I know AL is not tropical, (but curiously one of the few locations at 31 degrees north on the globe that is not a desert) it's possible to kid yourself here... except when you see snow on a palm tree! Hoping for one more move when my son goes away grows up.

I confess to also having an indoor jungle during the off season, but luckily a lot of things I used to have to deal with if I wanted to keep them are perennials here, Canna, Colocasia, Tradescantia pallida (purple heart,) Datura, lime green sweet potato vine. I may be disappointed next time there's a "normal" winter, but this year there are also Dahlia, Caladiums, Bougainvillea, and Strobilanthes dyerianus (persian shield) back from last year.

I have to agree with this one: "there is a difference between a tropical-looking garden and a jungle-looking garden. I've seen so many 'manicured' tropical gardens which still look very much tropical, lawns and all . . . Tropical climates have as much variation in them as as temperate climates."

We have native lantana in Texas and you'll find lantana in Hawaii as well. Same with many other plants. I mix my cannas and bananas among my fountain grasses and miscanthus because I like the textural variety - which may not create a tropicalesque scene in someone's view, and yet fountain grass is listed as a noxious weed in Hawaii. Temperate plants used judiciously can enhance any tropicalesque scene as long as they are not jarringly obvious contradictions.

Also have to agree with the "rushing stream shooting out of a rock mounted to the side of a garage or a fence" looking absurd, and to me, pine trees just don't give me visions of tropical places although there is a Cook's Pine in Hawaii.

Just saying, it's not what you can have or can't have in your tropicalesque garden that kills the mood, it's the presentation or the composition. Are you going for a jungle-look or for a nice garden-in-a-tropical-land-look?

Lou, I guess I have backed off from some of my original statements in this thread. Obviously there are different types of "tropical",and there are people that want different amounts of "tropical". (some may want the whole yard, others just a bed or two as an accent)

I guess I was mainly speaking to people that want authenticity. My cannas and bananas grow alongside mints, polk salad, sassafras trees, japanese maple, lettuce, asperagus, roses, rosemary, junipers,etc. (definitely not authentic)

One native plant we have here that I am encouraging to grow all around the edges of my property are staghorn sumac
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhus_typhina
It has a nice "tropicalesque" look to it- vaguely resembling palms with its shiny feathery leaves and it has flower pods that can be used to make a lemon-aide substitute.
These help to hide the pine tree forest that surrounds my property.

I guess most of us strive for a tropicalesque or tropical-feeling yard, and not necessary a true tropical one. To me that's okay - I realize that's a catalpa tree growing by the shed, the lilacs still bloom in spring, the big-leaf plant used for drama is actually a rhubarb and is surrounded by summer annual flowers as well as bananas, hibiscus, cannas, madagascar jasmine which I store from year to year. Yes, I have an arborvitae hedge between me and the neighbors, anything else would be unpractical in zone 3 for creating privacy - the hardiest bamboo survives here but remains a small accent plant about two feet tall.

I actually like the weeping norway spruce and find it interesting that it's surrounded by a small banana plant and flowering nicotiana in summer. An odd tomato or cucumber plant thrown in the flower bed as well as I don't have a formal vegetable garden.

Besides, my yard is a small city yard so any illusion of a tropical paradise may be ruined anyways when you notice the perimeter of the yard is grey wooden fence, or look at the side of the neigbors garage or the back lane, etc. but in the end I hoped I created somewhat of a tropical feel with a pond, colorful patio furniture and that splashy croton on the deck. Tropical-feeling accessories are neat too, tiki torches, tiki masks, easter island statues, even a broken clay pot used in a flower bed or old wooden crate, though all these would be confusing to someone trying to determine what part of the tropics I am trying to duplicate.

In the end though, to quote Tropicbreezent, just do what makes you happy and have fun with it. If the true tropics are 99% foliage and flowers are few and far between, I guess we aren't trying to duplicate the tropical jungle, but perhaps the grounds of a nice resort. As for the space issue, when you have a small yard and a love of plants it's not hard to end up with planting beds that are tightly packed, especially by the end of summer.

Cheers,
Glen

I've realized that I'm not really going for "tropical" but rather "exotic" or "surreal". (At least in the warm season)

I think for me its less about recreating a tropical environment, and more about creating an environment that looks impossible lol.
My goal is to have visitors walk into my yard and get confused.

Crispy, I think I feel the same way. It's just all about doing what you can with what you can find/afford. I know my taste is bifurcated although at the core of it is just being attracted to the unusual and colorful, and I don't follow any kind of rules regarding which plants will be in the yard except that I like them and/or they do something useful, like the fig tree. Love an interesting abstract discussion, though.

Thought of something else, the vegetable garden. Sadly, I don't know if a veggie plot would be the norm for tropical dwellers or not. The openness and formality of a traditional patch of veggie rows (of all plain green foliage) would certainly clash, even if common. Could be hidden with a row of (somehow contained/well bordered) bamboo or Cannas or something though if I've caused any purist concern! Hahaha! Maybe there's a more tropical style of growing veggies, more like a potager, just put seeds or little sprouts wherever there's an open spot in the midst of - whatever?

I don't know what to think about Eucalyptus trees, heavy on my mind since I happened to find one to buy. It's the cutest little thing! Do they look tropical or desert-ish to you? I have no feelings either way, and it's going in the yard with no connection to this discussion, so don't worry about being brutally honest about it. Just something to yak about in the abstract.

"Maybe there's a more tropical style of growing veggies, more like a potager, just put seeds or little sprouts wherever there's an open spot in the midst of - whatever? "

You should check out "permaculture" and "food forests".
These are some philosophies that I am following.
Basically these techniques are about observing how nature does things and copying. In a permaculture garden, there generally are no rows, things are wilder looking, no chemicals used. A food forest is one type of permaculture, where trees, vines, and under story plants are planted to mimic the self-sustaining abilities of a forest, but types of plants are geared to edible and fruit producing types.

http://www.permies.com/forums/
http://www.permaculture.org/nm/index.php/site/classroom/

One thing to remember is that many common annual vegetables are actually from tropical / jungle backgrounds - tomatoes, potatoes, peppers/chiles, eggplant, okra (same family as hibiscus) etc.
Cannas are grown in some areas specifically as a food crop, so these are a good "tropicalesque veggie".

Among various types of fruit trees/bushes/vines I am growing are these "tropicalesque" types: Figs (3 kinds), Kiwi vines, Mandarin orange trees (very cold hardy), banana plants,paw paw trees (asimina triloba, the only temperate member of a tropical tree family), and tea (camellia sinensis)

As for eucalyptus, I guess I see them more as a dry region plant, but still exotic.

Very good points. I had no idea people ate Canna - tubers? The sweet potatoes we stuck in the ground from the grocery store last year made cool, almost black leaves and little purple morning glory flowers in the morning, I thought they looked tropical. And the potatoes we dug up later were awesome!

I have a good book about permaculture, although it's becoming a bit dated and I'm not on board with some of the politics hinted at, but if anyone's interested, check it out: Redesigning the American Lawn; A Search for Environmental Harmony by Bormann, Balmori, and Geballe. I like the whole idea of devoting formerly unused space covered by mowed grass to something more productive, visually appealing, requiring less fuel and labor to maintain, produces more oxygen, provides some benefit or shelter for the critters, etc... no matter where one is, that sounds more harmonious and peaceful to me, whether tropical or not. Sorry about getting kinda lost here...

This discussion is really opening out. I like it. On the question of Eucalyptus, there are over 600 species and they come from all sorts of climates, other than permanently frozen. There species in tropical rainforests, tropical savanna/woodlands, temperate woodlands, temperate rainforests, desert sand dunes, mountain (winter snow covered). You name it, there's a Eucalypt (or a dozen) that grow there. So this again gets back to perception, where you're used to seeing them growing.

Veggie gardens in the tropics are common. As everywhere, in the old times there wasn't much variety in any one location. But in more modern times plants have been spread around the globe. So, many veggies are grown in tropical gardens these days. Things like the many species of taro, there's sweet potato, cassava, numerous vigna species beans, choko, the list goes on and on. But one thing, tomatoes aren't tropical, you can only grow them in the winter when it gets cold enough. Potatoes are the same, except they won't even grow in the winter there. There are a number of veggies that do overlap but in the tropics can only be grown in winter. Things like pumpkins, cucumbers, eggplant, etc. Okra is an interesting one. It's a tropical that was selectively bred for growing in colder climates. But it can revert back to being a tropical, or there's still the original tropical plants.

With fruits, Kiwis aren't tropical, they won't survive there. Oranges (and lemons) aren't tropical either, their tropical counterpart are limes. Some lemons survive in the tropics but they either don't produce at all, or very poorly. But just as they're trying to selectively breed tropical fruits that will produce in colder climates, they're also trying to breed cooler climate ones for the tropics.

A final comment on the original issue in this thread. I tend to feel that we try to make the garden a bit out of the ordinary, something unusual. Of course "tropical" does have that certain appeal. So if we introduce a tropical feel to it (within our own perception of what tropical means) then the goal has been achieved. Even in the tropics the location "may not be tropical enough" so exotic plants are brought in to give it that personal touch. Humans are never staisfied with what they've got, they have to modify it.

tropicbreezent
Thanks for correcting some things for me. I always assumed tomatoes were tropical since they were from around Peru, but apparently they are from cooler subtropic regions there.

I knew that kiwis are not tropical, but they do have that "look" to them that suggests tropical.

purpleinopp, I too am converting lawn into more useful things. I've put in over 40 trees, and all kinds of bushes and flowers,etc.
Outside my "tropicalesque" area, I have large areas that used to be mowed that I have let turn into tall grasses and wildflowers. Kinda like a prairie.

Lawns are about one of the most useless types of "agriculture" there is unless you have kids or a vollyball team.

That sounds nice, worthwhile. I'm renting here so any money spent is almost always on plants that live in pots that I can take with me eventually, or seeds. I do a lot of free-scaping, multiplying the plants already here and some of my potted plants to add starts to the beds, gladly accepting handouts from friends & neighbors. I think it looks as tropical as possible without involving actual money. The front porch is getting so full of pots and foliage that people walking by are starting to NOT notice me sitting out there. They usually say hi, so I know I'm hidden in my 'jungle.'

Just as the steward of this land while I'm here, I feel compelled to make it a better place to live. Even if you own land, your time on it is very short in the grand scheme of things. I've been here 5 years and would like to stay for about 11 more, but who knows. So far, I've rounded out all of the hard-to-mow corners of the lawn into beds where I plant whatever - veggies, shrubs, annuals, perennials, vines, and made a plot for mostly veggies behind the clothesline, where nobody tended to play.

I wouldn't call lawns useless, but they are certainly abused, misunderstood, overused fallback to lack of better ideas. I guess it's all a matter of your perspective, though. My appreciation of vast expanses of mowed area is growing the longer I'm here. My disdain for 5-acre lawns developed in OH, where I'm from. It's different here in AL, where the mowed zone defines where you're PROBABLY safe from snakes, or at least you should be able to see one. That's a pretty big deal and I don't 2nd guess anyone who wants to spend the time mowing that much if it makes them safer. Anything that helps UNattract mosquitoes is good too. This town has a "rattlesnake rodeo" every year and they tell me they're all caught pretty close by. It's why I don't do any solid groundcover type plants, and don't pack plants as tightly as I would like to. I want to be able to see that there's no snake, and to not create an environment that would attract any in the first place. There's a lot of older, overgrown yards around here and I think I'm always in fear of that look in the back of my mind. It's all kind of a tropic buzzkill.

Lou mentioned fountain grass... What do we think about ornamental grasses? I think the ones that look like giant corn, or red or variegated ones are kinda tropical looking to me although they're probably not from "either" type of tropical environment.

purpleinopp, Actually I bought a property about three years ago at the age of 38 or so, previous to that I always rented, so I know what you mean.

I have always had a bunch of potted plants, but oddly enough now that I have some where to plant stuff, I have even MORE potted plants as I am doing the same thing as you: trying not to spend money.

Most every winter my sunny living room is packed with baby trees and plants I've started from seeds or cuttings,etc.

I agree with you about the "land steward" thing. You never know the future, I sure hope I have 20 years or more on this property, but even if not, I want to leave it better than I found it.

I also get what you are saying about lawns as snake free areas. That is a good point.
SO far snakes in my "jungle" have been mostly harmless.

Hey, Crispy, sorry I missed your input when originally included. Hope you enjoyed the rest of your tropical-as-possible summer! Sounds like you're having fun with your landscaping.

purpleinopp:
My "jungle" did good this year, all my palms practically doubled in size, bananas, citrus, hibiscus and other flowers, etc.etc.etc. are looking great.

This has been a pretty mild fall where I live so far, could use some rain though!
I hope things are going good in tropical Alabama

Good stuff, enjoyed your update.

Me too (hope it's going well here,) but I won't know until spring for some stuff. More little Gardenias added, confederate roses, EE's looked like they made a nice amount of pups, brought over Cannas from my Mom's twice, a little Passiflora cutting seems to have taken off, more Lantana and Brugmansias (Oh these aren't great for the impatient without a big one already!), hopefully if Bougainvillea comes back again over it's 2nd winter it will make some daggone flowers. Otherwise that thorny thing has got to go.

And I collected hundreds of Coleus, Perilla, Persian shield, Hypoestes, Basil cuttings to save for spring. Also of course hoping all of the potted plants I brought in survive the experience. A high number of new-to-me plants this year (and some creative places where they are at the moment!)

It's dry here, too, no end in sight... none so far this month, 1" last month but it came in the form of several heavy mists, no real rain and never got wet under the trees. Silly weather.com only has stats as far back as the previous month but I don't think we had more than an inch or so in Oct. Wish I hadn't lost a bookmark I had that took forever for me to find that had at least stats for the bigger town next to us. That's going to be high because it rains over there a LOT more but decent as an guestimate.

As far as removing for tropical effect, more GRASS is going away next year, Oh yeah. Way more lawn than playing kids need in this yard.

I have a potted bougainvillea that didn't flower this year.
Yeah, the rain thing is getting annoying.

I transplanted a number of trees, and my ponds are very low. I need water!

Also I had a sabal minor (palmetto) make seed this year and I've been poking those in the ground all over the yard, they need to get well watered in.

here's hoping for rain for both of us!