Energy use of flourescent lamps is lower, but if you are talking a number of lamps, (bulbs are tungsten), then your energy usage will not be reduced by leaving the lights on all day.

However, it does take a fair amount of energy to start those lamps, so frequent on-off is not efficient.

The disadvantage, however, which isn't discussed, about home use of flourescent lighting, is that flourescent lighting has ultraviolet content, vs. tungsten that does not, meaning that extensive use of flourescent lighting in the home environment may save energy, but it takes a major toll on interior furnishings......fabrics, wall art, and other materials will fade at an accelerated rate, under flourescent lighting.

So, there is a cost trade-off involved, which should be taken into consideration, when making decisions on types of lighting in the home environment.

You will pay more for lamps, and you will pay more to replace faded colors and fabrics, as well as other ultraviolet sensitive materials, to use flourescent.

It will enable some savings in cooling (important in Texas), as the flourescent lamps generate less heat.

Once you have considered all the aspects of such use, the flourescents in the home environment, where lighting is generally needed mostly after dark, and not during the day, the savings in energy may be less than you think, and the other costs will increase.

(The government doesn't tell you about what flourescent will do to your $2000. sofa.)

Rick! You have a $2000 sofa?

Well, roselee, all I can say is that I sympathize with you! My hubby does the same thing and it drives me nuts!

Rick, isn't florescent lighting supposed to be better for the environment? If not for the consumer? That is the myth I've always heard... Just looking for opinions.

Rick, thanks for the great information! Lots of people are sure pushing these bulbs because the presumed energy savings. I think I read that California has legislated that the whole state change over to them by 2011. Walmart is getting into the act somehow.

Never knew that about florescent lights fading out my (ahem) $2,000 sofa ;-)

Yes, trsinc ... I think some guys think we can see in the dark! Eyes in the back of our heads yes, but dark? Uh uh.

California does a lot of stupid things, without adequate investigation. They are so liberal, they nearly gave away the state, financially.

Wonder if they are going to light the academy awards with flourescent? You think? Somehow, I doubt it.

Anything that is left on for extended periods of time, will consume electricity, including computers in "sleep" mode.

One of the ways tungsten lamps are abused, is the use of higher wattage lamps than needed. Also, the use of dimmer switches on ceiling fixtures, helps to reduce the electricity usage. I always have dimmer switches on multiple lamp fixtures, as they will output more light than needed, even when using smaller rated lamps. (There are probably housefires that are a result of using lamps (bulbs) too large for the fixture.)

However, we waste way more electricity lighting things that don't need to be lit, than any other way. Have you ever calculated the usage associated with outdoor christmas lighting, world wide? Staggering.....and during the winter when energy consumption is already high.

What about all those night games for baseball, football, etc? (That's a ton of light!) Anyone want to estimate the cost of the new basketball arena lighting in Dallas? I guarantee you don't want the bill. In fact, their electronic sign probably consumes a ton of energy, to be bright enough to read in daylight.

What about all those neon signs, all those argon building lights, and so-on.....just to "look pretty".

Commercial waste of energy, is one of the largest wastes.

In the home, the main waste is lighting every room in the house, and believe it or not.....having the TV on, even when you aren't watching!

We can all use less energy, but the real reduction is easiest achieved in commercial use, where the worst waste occurs. (Think Las Vegas hotel and casino lighting!)

Yes, I have a $2000. sofa. However, it has been with me for at least 17 years (or longer), and still looks great, despite having 2 dogs. The reason it cost that much, (besides being a good brand), is it has expensive fabric, which makes it very durable. Never had any fabric last that well before.

I believe in buying good quality, durable furnishings, that last. I still use the original pair of lamps we bought when we got married, 38 yrs. ago. They have had replacement shades, but that's all. We still have the same bedroom furniture we bought 35 yrs. ago, except for new mattress/springs, and again, new lamp shades.

In fact, we still have the majority of the furniture we bought, in our life, as most of it was excellent quality. (Of course we used to live in NC, so finding good stuff wasn't too hard. Today, that quality is quite expensive, and most people probably buy imported stuff, much of which is particle board with a well done imitation wood finish. It is interesting that the second sign of a downturn in the economy, is the closing of furniture stores! The first, is the closing of framing shops.)

I have no intention of putting flourescent lamps in the lighting designed for tungsten, especially around my upholstered furniture. I have a flourescent fixture in the kitchen, which is used sparingly, and in the walk-in closet, which is only sparingly used. (That can fade clothing, you know.)

How long does fading take? Depends. I have seen flourescent wipe out photographs on the wall in just 3 yrs, Fabrics in about 3-5 yrs, and so-on.

There is some fire hazard from the ballasts of flourescent fixtures as well. It isn't a serious problem, but there is that potential. The ballasts go out fairly regularly. I have already replaced one of mine, in just 7-8 yrs.

Anyway, you become aware of a lot of this stuff over time. I just happen to use a lot of different kinds of lighting, and have a little more knowledge than the average person, about light.

I heard or read a rant about this subject. I don't remember it verbatim - but it was saying that there was a bill coming up that would ban the use of incandescents within 10 years. Leaving only the fluorescent.

Problem: Fluorescents have some kind of contaminant in them (don't remember) where incandescents do not. Something like mercury that would contaminate a home. Also, the compact fluorescents are only made in China. China has been building lots of these plants which have no rules on the emission of bad stuff into the environment. When and if the bill is passed, it would cause tons more plants to be built in China. Result - more contamination all around. Write your Congressman - save our bulbs.

Thanks again for all your words of wisdom and food for thought! There are so many facets to consider.

I noticed NewScientist had an article about this subject recently. I will see later if I can forward it for anyone that is interested in reading further on the subject.

Wow this forum is just a well of information. I sure hope we don't all have to go all fluorescent. Fluorescent gives a LOT of people a headache.(It takes awhile but I'm one of them) I know people get a migraine within a few minutes under fluorescent light. It's a harsh and unforgiving light that flatters very few people. In high-end stores and boutiques they do not have florescent lighting in or around the dressing rooms because they want the people trying them on not to be appalled by how florecent makes them look,thus not being in the mood to shop. I wonder if the stores etc... that don't want the fading,unflattering look of fluorescent light will create a demand for light covers or shades that cut back on the UV/harshness? PJ

I took a lighting class in college, and from what I remember it is the act of turning on the ballast (that powers the lamp bulb) that consumes that large amount of energy. Pretty much only an issue on large florescent fixtures like the ones used in kitchens, workshops, etc. I don't know anything about the compact florescent bulbs, but don't think they have individual ballasts. You can buy compacts that put off a pretty good quality light, but they will not be as energy efficient as a regular florescent. (Just more efficient than an incandescent.)

I pick my lighting based on what I'm using it for. Large open work spaces like the kitchen - florescents are good. I'd use a compact florescent in a lamp I just use for reading and task lighting. I'd put a fancy, high quality incandescent in the ceiling fan used for overall lighting.

Check out the solar forum on this site. I bet you can find some good references there. Some of those peeps are real energy misers! Really though, your appliances are using tons more than your lightbulbs! TV and the a/c are the worst!

Well, I doubt any of us are gong to give up the AC, in Texas.(smile)

However, the question of what light for what use, is a valid one. Flourescents are typically "cold" lamps, while tungsten is typically "warm", in color rendition. That means tungsten is more people oriented, while flourescent provides uniform, soft, but cold, light for tasks.

Tungsten is best for areas that need a concentrated light, where a small brighter light is needed (sewing, etc.), or where color is critical, visually.

Flourescent is better, where you want a softer, more even illumination, with less heat, for larger areas. Thus, kitchens, workshops, offices, and so-on, are good areas for flourescent lighting. However, there will be tasks in those areas, that will call for supplemental tungsten lighting, in key areas.

Tungsten also can be made much smaller than flourescent, so very small spaces and tasks use tungsten more in their design, such as refrigerator door lights for water and ice, and your car license tag lamps.

I have to use everything from 2000w tungsten lamps, to flourescent light banks, and 100w mini-spots, and HMI (daylight balanced tungsten), so I deal with all kinds of lighting, and have to understand the impact and effect of all of them.

If you are bothered by flourescent lighting, you may be experiencing a "color balance" effect, as standard flourescent lamps, used in common fixtures, are 30 CC green, in color, requiring a 30 CC mmagenta filter correction, for natural daylight color rendition.

This "color effect", can place strain on eyes, and result in discomfort over time. A simple solution, however, is available, in the form of filter sleeves, that go over the lamps, and correct the green color. Those are available from various lighting and photographic supply houses, and they fit the standard household 48" flourescent tubes. These will reduce the lighting level slightly, but will render a more "normal" color to the eye, and place less strain on color sensitive people.

You can also purchase "daylight" color balance tubes, but they are more expensive (of course), and usually have to be special ordered. These can actually be too high in color temperature, however, and may put a blue cast into your environment.

There are even some special flourescent tubes, which render color compatible with tungsten lamps, which will provide more "warmth" in the home. The sizes available for these is more limited, and they may not be availble for standard household fixtures. (I use them in specialized photo equipment.)

See your lamp specialist, for more detailed information on the various flourescent lamps that are avilable for use in household fixtures, that can offer you some benefits apart from the standard, commonly available, lamps. May cost a little more, but may provide a greater level of comfort to you, at home. (There are many new types of highly efficient flourescent lamps.)

Still.....your furnishings will not like anything that puts out a high UV (ultraviolet) range. That is kind of like sitting your furnishings out in the full sun in the yard. You don't have to be an expert to know what that will do.

Again thank you all for the "enlightening" information provided!!!

For anyone interested below is the article from www.newscientist.com magazine that I mentioned that got me to thinking about all this. It's actually more about LED lighting systems that may be coming in the future rather than florescent bulbs.

Oh, btw the florescent replacement bulbs for the incadescent lamps my hubby bought at HEB's provide a very warmly tinted light. We put them in the four bulb fixture on the ceiling fan we have in the room we use as an office. I'll have to get used to them taking a second to come on after I pull the string.

---

It's lights out for classic household bulb
02 March 2007
Exclusive from New Scientist Print Edition.
Andy Coghlan

As icons of technology go, they don't come much bigger or more enduring than the classic incandescent tungsten filament bulb. It is one of the few technologies still in use more than a century after it was pioneered by inventors including Thomas Edison and Joseph Swan.

Now western governments are gunning for the humble light bulb because it wastes huge amounts of energy. First to propose calling time was the state of California: on 31 January it unveiled the "How Many Legislators Does it Take to Change a Light Bulb Act", which, if passed, will ban the bulbs by 2012. Three weeks later, Australia announced a plan to do likewise. This month the UK government promised to phase them out by 2011.

No wonder. Only 5 per cent of the electrical energy fed into the bulbs generates light. Because the rest is wasted as heat, a switch to energy-efficient alternatives offers huge scope for cutting carbon dioxide emissions from power stations burning fossil fuels, by reducing the amount of electricity they produce.

Reliable replacements are already available. First in line are compact fluorescent lamps (CFLs), coiled-up versions of the fluorescent "tube" lights that are a familiar fixture in offices and factories. Waiting in the wings are bulbs and lights based on light-emitting diodes (LEDs), microchips which pump out huge amounts of light for their size, and use a fraction of the energy of conventional bulbs. Although LEDs are commonplace in car headlights and display screens, technical deficiencies mean they cannot yet replace light bulbs to give warm, ambient lighting.

In the meantime though, CFLs are a good stopgap, producing light for just 20 per cent of the energy incandescent bulbs use. They also last 10,000 hours compared to just 1000. The potential savings, in energy and money, are considerable, as lighting soaks up around a fifth of the electricity industrialised countries consume.

In the US, there are around 4 billion incandescent light bulb sockets, says Dutch company Philips, which launched a campaign in Washington DC on 14 March to scrap all inefficient lighting in North America by 2016. Replacing incandescent bulbs with energy-efficient ones would cut the US's annual electricity bill by $18 billion, and cut CO2 emissions by 158 million tonnes, the company says.

"Replacing incandescent bulbs would cut US electricity bills by $18 billion a year"
Dump the bulb
Europe uses almost as many incandescent bulbs - 3.9 billion - and so could make similar savings. "If everyone changed over from incandescent bulbs, we could save the energy equivalent to 10 million households," says a spokeswoman for the European Commission, which in May will consider legislation to dump the bulb.

The CFL tube contains a gas that produces ultraviolet light in response to an electric current. When the UV light strikes the phosphor coating on the inside of the tube it generates visible light. Until now, CFLs have been too pricey, ugly and "flickery" to displace their energy-hogging rivals. "When we first tried to launch these 27 years ago, they were about $25 each," says Philips's spokesman, Steve Goldmacher. "Now, they're less than $2 each," he says. They also come with their own built-in transformers to fit most ordinary light sockets. Around 85 per cent of all CFLs are now replaceable, says the American Lighting Association. As a result, last November, supermarket giant Wal-Mart launched a campaign to sell 100 million CFLs by the end of 2007. One of the few limitations of CFLs is that they cannot be dimmed like conventional bulbs.

The most significant changes to the way we light our homes are likely to come when LEDs become cheap and reliable enough to provide ordinary diffuse white light. This is because CFLs, while much more efficient than incandescent bulbs, still only emit around 15 per cent of the electrical energy fed into them as light, or up to 30 per cent in "tube" form. This compares with 30 per cent for existing white LEDs, with a target of up to 70 per cent. "It will be CFLs first, but LEDs may eventually bypass them," says Colin Humphreys, a pioneer of LEDs at the University of Cambridge.

LEDs are semiconductor devices that emit light when a voltage is applied across them. Each LED is typically a stack of five very thin layers of the semiconductor indium-gallium-nitride, separated by gallium nitride layers, and measures just 1 millimetre square. By varying the amounts of indium, engineers can alter the colours produced. For example, 10 per cent indium gives blue light, and 20 per cent gives green. To produce white light, blue LEDs are coated with phosphor, which generates yellow light. This merges with the blue light from the LED to create a somewhat harsh white light.

Already, some LED-based domestic light sources are appearing. Last month Philips unveiled a globe-like lamp based on four LEDs - two red, one blue and one green. By varying the intensity of the LEDs it's possible to create mood lighting in up to 16 million different colours. Launched in the Netherlands, the lamp, called LivingColors, is operated with a simple remote control. Philips stresses that this is a long way from the LED-based "bulb" that people can simply screw into existing sockets. But it's a start.

Most white LEDs for the home are likely to appear first in sharp, functional lighting such as desk lamps. Earlier this month Siemens's subsidiary Osram unveiled an LED spotlight called Ostar, which the company says can easily illuminate desks from a height of 2 metres. The lights should also last 50 times longer than incandescent lamps, and five times as long as CFLs.

To produce LEDs that can replace incandescent bulbs, the challenge is to develop devices that create a warmer white light. Humphreys's team and others around the world are tackling this by coating individual LEDs with red, blue and green phosphors. "In principle, we can mimic the quality of sunlight," says Humphreys. "We're not there yet, but we're getting close," he says.

If white LEDs are ever going to be used as light bulbs, they will also have to get much cheaper. Nowadays, a single LED lamp costs up to $60, mostly because indium-gallium-nitride wafers have to be grown on expensive sapphire crystals. Humphreys is confident LEDs can be grown on silicon instead. This would cut the cost drastically, as a 5-centimetre sapphire substrate costs $40, compared to just $5 for silicon. His team has already grown blue LED structures on 5-centimetre silicon wafers in the laboratory.

Humphreys and his collaborators have also banished a gremlin that was causing LEDs to fail early. The units stopped working after just 400 to 500 hours of use because of heat trapped by the transparent epoxy resin dome that caps and protects the chip. By exchanging epoxy for a type of silicone, Humphreys stopped the LEDs overheating, vastly prolonging their working lives. Once they're cheap enough, LEDs could last the entire life of a lighting unit, he says.

Whenever LEDs are ready to take over, one thing is certain: the incandescent light bulb is finally on its way out. "It's amazing it's lasted this long," says Humphreys.

From issue 2597 of New Scientist magazine, 02 March 2007, page 26-27

Isn't it just a kick in the head(groin) that our government allows foreign companies to lobby against the US people? And , yes, I see it as against us. There are much bigger targets to go after in the "energy wasting" department.

In the environmental department, the countries that produce the CFL are a million times more polluted than we are (China), and that is if you buy that the current incandescents are less polluting than the CFL. You would have to overlook the heavy metals to make that equation balance. I would buy LED - when the price is right. Mainly because they give off enough light, and they are not hot.

To boil my thoughts down to one sentence - if the free market doesn't make us salivate for CFL's, then the government shouldn't force us. Ditto electric cars, hybrid cars and HOV lanes.

We have a totally worthless Stivers print...ruined by flourescent lighting in DH's office.

Wish we would have known it would become faded exposed to that lighting.

If you have fine art, under flourescent lighting, you really do need to purchase UV filters for the tubes.

Only cheap prints should be used under flourescent, so they can be replaced periodically, without high cost.

You can also use Denglas, to help protect fine art, but it is expensive, and it has a tint to it, which shifts colors in the artwork, to some degree.

Never place an original piece of fine art, under flourescent lighting. Always use tungsten, in that situation.

There's always something new in technology.....and almost always things they don't tell you, that you have to learn the hard way.

I did not know that about flourescent lighting. I have one of those magnefying glass/light combination lamps that I use for doing cross-stitch. I switched from incandescent to flourescent because the incandescent was burning my hands. However, now I find out that the flourescent may fade out my cross-stitch before I'm even done with it. What's a girl to do?

Sally

I forgot to mention that I'm the light nazi in my house. I'm constantly going around turning off lights that DH has left on. I actually think he just doesn't do switches. He'll work in the kitchen or sit in the living room without turning on a light, until it's absolutely too dark to see. Then, if he does manage to turn a light on, he doesn't ever turn it off. It drives me crazy.

Sally

Just the opposite here. The Mrs. hates light, and is always leaving us in dim light.

My eyes are already bad enough....don't need to make 'em any worse.

Wow,I am really in the "dark" on this subject. HA..you can excuse me now.

You're Excused.

My DH was the light nazi. When he went to bed, he thought all lights should be off, with the exception of my reading light. He even wanted the Xmas lights off, no matter that we had company and he was the only one going to bed. He also had a "thing" about bugs flying in the door. Once the police were chasing a motorcyclist in our neighborhood. I looked out the slider and saw helicoper lights that looked like they were coming in the house. I ran out to see what was going on. He followed me and then turned around and went in. He shut the screen door behind him. Because it was dark I did not realize it and walked into the screen door. I sliced the bottom of my foot on the rails. I was furious at him!
AND that was the second time he had done that to me. The first time was at a condo in FL. One night he called me out to see a sea turtle laying her eggs. Unbeknownest to me, after I walked out he slid the screen shut. Yep, I turned around and walked into the screen.

Oh, my cats do that. Some days I'll have the screen closed but the door open, and then at some point I close the door. Then, when I open the door to let them in, before I can open the screen also, they try to come in, only to bounce off the screen door. I don't mean to be mean, it just happens that way.

Sally

We close the vents and the doors to the bedrooms in the daytime. Enough leaks in to keep them from getting hot-hot, but there is no reason to keep them as cool as the rest of the house. We keep the thermastate set at about 80 degrees which is plenty cool. Ceiling fans help a lot in keeping us in a comfort zone.

I think that the US government allows China to be the sole provider of pollution-causing goods for the very purpose of supplying us with those goods while keeping the majority of the pollution in another country. Same reason we attack enemies on their soil-to keep ours safer and cleaner. Right now we are still buying oil at high rates demanded by other countries, while stockpiling our own oil. In the future when other countries' oil reserves are depleted the US will set the price for oil.

I digress from the light-bulb discussion, but yes, China has not the environmental controls that we enjoy in the US, neither do many countries who provide goods and services to us. We Americans cherish our way of life, and it is in many respects maintained through the ignorance, laxity and abuse of other cultures. Cheryl

I was told at one store that the regular incandescent light bulbs were eventually not going to be sold anymore in San Antonio. Don't know when that starts. If you have fixtures with dimmer switches, don't use CFL bulbs unless it's approved for dimmer use. We had fixtures with dimmer settings and used the CFL bulbs...the CFL bulbs only lasted a short time. Then the store people where we bought the bulbs told us that the CFL bulbs available at that time couldn't be used for dimmer fixtures. They said that CFL bulbs were coming out soon for dimmer stuff...that was early this year sometime that we were told that. Fluorescent or CFL bulbs should not be put in the trash when they're no longer working. There are some stores that will take the used ones.

CFL bulbs contain mercury which is a neurotoxin. There are numerous posts on the web about CFL bulbs releasing mercury when dropped or broken. One in particular I remember where a bulb was dropped on the kitchen counter in a home with young children. They had to keep the kids out of the kitchen while they researched and performed proper cleanup. Needless to say, they are back to the old incandescents now.

We have stocked up on incandescent bulbs and plan to use them efficiently. We have found that the CFL's simply do not provide enough light for us. If you have to add more light to see as well or replace faded items, then where are the savings?

I didn't go through to read all the long explanations here, but Myth Busters on Discovery Channel tested this theory and it is not true. It is always good to turn your lights off when you're not in the room regardless of what types of bulbs you use.