Tomatoes can take up to 2 weeks to germinate, depending on variety, moisture, heat, and light. Federal standards require 75% germination rate for commercially-produced seeds. Most gardeners expect 80-90%. You can improve your germination rate when you pre-sprout seeds. Good luck!

Here is a link that might be useful: Tomato Seed Starting FAQs

I took an old upright freezer, Wired in a line voltage thermostat w/ 2 light bulbs. Crank it up to 78-80 degrees. About 100% humidity in there and almost every tomato comes up in 36 hours.

I sprouted Red horn of the bull peppers this year in that thing in 5 days. Last year, they took 2 weeks "naked" on the bench.

I used a heat mat, no controller though, and plastic wrap loosely over them. I wish I had the space to do something like that. :)

Thank you for the link, Kathywide.

Sue, yes, one can see sometimes huge variations in when varieties germinate and with all else being the same I think that the age of seeds is one of the most important variables.

A commercial pack may have a date on it, as in packed for 2011 but that only means when the seeds were put in the pack, not when they were produced.

The only places where I know that no tomato seeds over 2 yo are sold are Sandhill Preservation and Glecklerseedmen. There may be others who do that but I don't know which other commercial sites do that myself.

And even from a single site there may be variations between seed age from variety to variety. When I list varieties in the SSE YEarbooks I list a variety until the seed age is 5 yo as do some others I know. And since I know what the seed age is I then send more seeds to that SSE person requesting a variety and tell them to double sow.

I think it all depends, also, on the source of seeds at a given place. Some sites produce almost all of their own seed, some subcontract out seed production, some buy off the shelf, and some use a combination of those ways to get seed.

Hope that helps to perhaps understand why germination can be variable.

Carolyn

Carolyn, that explains a lot, thanks. I did notice that they all just say "packed for", and I also noticed Tatiana's contain coding that may relate to when she received the seed or its age. For example: CV Sa9 04 or BC KO T 07/...Hungary 04. Anyway, its good to know that there are a few that don't send older seeds. I would still purchase the seeds that I wanted to try if they were available only from others, but given a variety that was available from both, I would buy from one of those that sends fresher seeds first. Since I don't use all my seed each year, I might use seed for 3-4 years after I buy it, and if it is already 5 years old when I get it, obviously germination might suffer. I would need to seed more heavily in each container, or at least start more containers of that variety. Also, 2 weeks makes significant difference in plant size. I have a few that are just uncurling the stem and others that have their first true leaves already.

Sue, if Tania got seeds from Sandhill in 04, as you indicated above, that's just what it means and she would have grown out some seeds from those Sandhill seeds and done her own seed production.

But while Tania and I are good friends and communicate frequently, I don't know what a typical pack of seeds from her might say as to seed age. Yes she has sent me seeds from time to time, and me to her, but neither of us use typical commercial seed packs.

But for EVERY variety I send out seeds for, whether for my SSE listings or the large SASE seed offer I do elsewhere, or sending seeds to certain commercial places for trial, or to personal friends, I ALWAYS write the seed age on my #1 coin envelopes , which is what I prefer and use.

Don't get me near those small plastic zip lok ones where the seeds get hung up on that zip lip. LOL

Carolyn

Packaging also either has a lot to do with prolonged seed viability or maybe the companies using foil packaging for seeds just do a better job of preparing the seeds- I suspect both. This year I was surprised at the amount of "Pulp Trash" and "Congealed clumps of seeds" in seed packs coming from various sources. And most often I expect seed to germinate in 4-5 days but this year there were a few varieties that I replanted when none or very few had germinated in 10 days. Many of those varieties did have seed germinate a little after the 10 day wait but the plants often continue to grow at a slower rate; some are misshapen runts that I prefer to discard sooner rather than later. But getting back to my original point- the foil packaged seeds I purchase from Rupp in Ohio never have been a problem. In fact the only problem I have with Rupp is that they only offer 30 +/- heirloom tomato varieties. They have the paper packaged suppliers bested in Price, Seed uniformity, Seed germination, Resealing packages and Seed visibility while planting (due to coating used with some seeds).

Supposedly the USPS uses some kind of radiant scanner than can mess w/ the seed too.

Barry,

We have to work on a cabinet for YOU for next season.

-T

The only places that the USPS scans, and not radiant, but conventional X-ray, are those zip codes associated with Washington DC, and surroundings. Last I knew.

The larger problem has been the new rollers that the USPS has introduced in the larger mail facilities which have been shown to crush some seeds, but that was several years ago and knowing that most individuals pad their seeds well, and most commercial places do as well.

As to seed germination, since I seldom know the seed age of varieties sent to me I allow a couple of weeks to wait for germination, and actually sometimes let them go longer if it's a rare or hard to get variety.

When I send out seeds to those who participate in my annual seed offer elsewhere I always write the seed age on the pack, as I do for my SSE listed varieties, as I do for the varieties I sent to certain seed companies for trial, as I do to personal friends.

Right now I can tell you that with fresh 2011 seeds for Fish Lake Oxheart, that was one variety I offered in my seed offer, the germination percentage ranges from 100% for most folks, to 0, yes, 0% for some.

And that's not surprising to me since I've been doing seed offers since about the early 90's. No two folks sow seeds the same way and treat them the same way as to the mix being used, seed pans, kits they buy, Jeffy pellets, how often they water, heating mats or not, domes or not and on and on, so I put up a germination thread so I know which seeds might be having problems and so that those with the same exact seeds can see the variation in germination % with a single variety.

Carolyn

Nice idea Timmy, but I'm content for the time being. I had an opportunity to buy a used lab. incubater but figured I had no place to store it. I did not plant anything for the week that I shut the coal stoker (house heat source) down. I'm certain that if I was to purchase an old type refrigerator I would be using it to smoke meat. That's another topic.

From S. Fowler...

In 2001 the Postal Service ordered 8 Irradiation systems from Titan Scan (Surebeam). These systems were to provide up to 10 Mega ElectronVolt (MeV) electron beams or up to 7.5 MeV X-ray beams. The electron systems were to have a power level of 14 kW. The X-ray conversion systems have considerably less power in the delivered beam. These units were to be installed over the next year- 2002. The Postal Service asked for many more units in the near future. For now, the mail is being irradiated at a Titan Facility in Lima, Ohio and an IBA facility in Bridgeport, New Jersey. Both of these facilities are operating as very high MeV electron beam irradiation units.

We investigated if irradiation of the mail is safe? Of course this depends on what is meant by safe. It is like any other industrial process dealing with energy. Radiation is just energy. It has the same inherent dangers as any process- no more - no less. From the human standpoint (except for chemicals activated or changed by the radiation) , it is very safe. However, from the packaged product standpoint, there are some drawbacks with which we will have to live.

Some things to keep in mind about this process:
Benefits
Drawbacks
Electronics Probably will be Damaged
Pathogens will be killed Biological Samples will be Damaged
The terrorist mail threat will be eliminated Seeds will be Damaged
The Mail will not become radioactive Plants will be Damaged
Photographic Film will be Damaged
Glassware & Jewelry May be Changed
Magnetic Media May be Changed
Costs of Postage will Increase
Possible chemical hazards from the mail contents for postal workers

Sue,

Since I saw you mentioning my seeds here :) - I wanted to give you a better idea of the age of the seeds that I send:

On the old-style package labels I only indicate the original seed source - for example, CV Sa9 04 means that I got the seeds from Sandhill in 2004. Then I grew it out to produce my own seeds. The year when the seeds were produced can be looked up at Tatiana's TOMATObase website when you look up the variety and the description under 'B.C KO T', which is my code name.

On the new-style labels I now have the year when the seeds were produced by me - this makes it much easier for everyone to know the actual seed age. I still have a few older labels that I continue to use, until I ran out, I am using 50/50 of old and new labels at the moment and plan to replace all the labels with the new design eventually.

Having said that, I test all my seeds for germination, so even when I offer seeds collected in, say, 2006, I make sure that the germination exceeds the standards.

Tatiana

Oh, I forgot to mention that in both the online catalog, and in the downloadable PDF version of the seed catalog I mention the year of when the seeds are produced.

Hopefully this helps a bit to clarify.

I order many seeds from different commercial vendors and from SSE members, and I really appreciate when they mention the year the seeds were harvested. Unfortunately this happens less often lately (and almost never with commercial sources), for whatever reason. I sure appreciate the way Carolyn write the year of the seed packages she sends - it makes it so easy for me to 'schedule' my growouts! :)

Tatiana

Thank you, Tatiana. I thought it might be when you received the seeds but I wasn't positive. I ordered seeds from several different sources because I was looking for particular varieties and no single source had them all. None were labeled with the age of the seeds, so if you are doing that now, I am sure your customers will appreciate it, myself included! Believe it or not, I still have one or two germinating each day and it has been over 2 weeks. I did notice that some had some larger, plumper seeds as well as smaller thinner ones, and I do try to pick the larger plumper ones to plant first, but when using up a package of seeds I am planting whatever is there. Actually, there were a few that didn't germinate from each of several packages, but the worst was Anna Russian, which was not one I purchased from you. I am enjoying learning to grow my plants from seed and the varieties available from sources such as yours makes it much more worth while. Thank you! :)

I find that sometimes the smaller seeds germinate faster. I am not sure why... there must be some good reason!

I pre-sprout most of my tomato seeds in a wet paper towel, especially the ones that are old or if I have just a few seeds. I love to see a little root appearing and then growing so fast :) It is a little miracle, every time! I love the seed starting time.

I find that sometimes the smaller seeds germinate faster.

Smaller seed, thinner seed coat ... quicker to break through?

Usually the grapes and cherries are half the size of a standard tomato seed. They do germinate faster and are generally a 60-65 day tomato.

Heat mat usually helps, but I think a controller is mandatory as most mats run way too hot without one. I have had no problem sprouting up to five year old seeds with regulated heat in a reasonable amount of time.

Interesting. I assumed the larger plumper seeds had more stored nutrients and were probably more "mature" and more developed when they were harvested.