"significantly impacting the performance" need more information. Are they clogging the drainage? You are going to have to include the red wigglers in your design considerations. If I was a highly paid consultant instead of an uneducated housewife I would suggest simply a weave with wider holes. It may be a bit less efficient. Or stick a pitch fork into each pod several times to get air flowing. Another way is to periodically dry out the system. The "weebeasties" will recover way quicker from the dried out residue than the higher up now crispy red wigglers (few still damp stragglers) can start to multiply. Alternate fields of pods to dry out.

http://esciencenews.com/articles/2011/01/09/igloo.shaped.poo.gloos.eat.sewage

(A .com link, I know.)

Let me catch my breath... from laughing. Not at you but at the situation. Who could of known?

Last month when I read about these pods I thought they were really cool. I was looking at them from a biochar viewpoint. Now they are super really cool from a vermicompost viewpoint.

Really I am trying to take the smile off of my face. But Really. Red Wigglers gumming up the works. I am sure you can see now that you created the perfect red wiggler Garden of Eden. You have what worms want... Wet Oxygen filled with weebeasties.

I'm sure you are familiar with ecological issues that have happened by bringing in one living thing to handle another. The red wigglers did that invasion on the microbials with no help. If left long enough something unexpected may find the red wigglers and solve the problem for you. (We are not introducing that ugly, scary, worm predator.)

We all have "friends" in our vermicompost that we have had to try real hard to accept as part of the system.

I would be trying real hard to make sure the red wigglers do not all die at once because that could be way worse then expected.

You could always sell the worms but that volume would crash the market.

We here have obviously been doing it all wrong. Your way of growing them seems better.

I would turn on some Hotel California because they are never going to leave. The best you can hope for is they are eaten out of house and home by BSFL.

You are doing important work. I wish you well in this.
Please keep posting. People here and a few other boards know a lot about worms and all together have probably offed a few.

These are proprietary treatment systems that are already installed and are not capable of being modified. They function by providing a prime habitat for trillions of bacteria and microbes that treat the wastewater. These bacteria are intermittently sprayed with wastewater that has had all the chunkys and floaties removed. They are allowed to be exposed to the water for a short period of time and then are allowed to "breath". This process is dependent on high densities of microbes and to maintain high densities the amount of air and water they receive as well as having space to live in is very important.

The worms are causing significant problems because they and their castings are preventing the uniform distribution of water and air about the fabric. They are also physically altering the fabric to some extent by burrowing through it. In order to push a hole through the material, they have compress the fabric around it. It seems a minor thing, but that affects the optimum area that the bacteria need to live and affects their ability to be exposed to air and water.

Red worms have been used as part of a wastewater treatment process, but there is no way to incorporate them into this one! THEY MUST BE EXTERMINATED!!!!! =)

This is an very infrequent (but serious) occurrence in these sorts of treatment system. My suspicion, as I have done some vermicomposting myself, is that these worms were washed into the system by someone in the neighborhood managing their colonies (cleaning tools that have babies or "cocoons" on them). My understanding is that red wigglers don't normally inhabit lawn areas so I don't know where else they would have originated.

Harvesting the worms is not an option due to the way that they have infiltrated the fabric (and they are coated in wastewater).

Right now, I'm leaning towards introducing salamanders into the pods... and then maybe snakes... not sure where to go from there.

On a serious note, I am also pondering using high pressure hot water to wash the fabric. Worm soup. YUM!

And for a sense of scale of this problem... There are multiple pods, each containing about 200+ cubic feet of blankets that are packed chock full o'worms.

Reminds me of my canister filter I have for my 90gal DIY aquarium, another biological filter with similar issues as it gunks up.

The worms might be the easy part, I'm thinking of all the cocoons that will be waiting, those are much tougher. Probably regular maintance and just keeping the worm pop down.

As much as I hate saying this, you have the option of putting hotish (104+F) water through it? You'd have to reseach the temp tolerance of the bacteria you probably have for your waste processing, but I'd put money it's higher and it will rebound much faster.

Also heard of vibrations being used to harvest worms, maybe a cement vibrator plus a water flush could get lots out.

Some odd ideas, but if you're already in the realm of snakes and salamanders... ;)

You'll also have an issue with dead worms. If you have that many there and you kill them and don't flush them out... have a gas mask handy.

Scorched earth (i.e. killing the friends and the foes) is on the table so long as whatever we use can be discharged into the groundwater. The treatment microbes will grow back.

The trouble would be getting 2,000+ gallons of hot water on site. But I'm looking into that.

Industrial strength hydrogen peroxide and chlorine are also on the table.

I don't know that the dead worms are a huge problem... they'll cause a spike in the strength of the treated wastewater but should drop breakdown quickly. It's sewage effluent to start with, so it's not exactly smelling like roses to start.

Ideally, I need a pathogen that will give the worms a disease and just wipe them out that way. Similar to BT (milky spore) for grubs and mosquito larvae.

I'd think the peroxide would be better than the chlorine as it breaks down far faster and into less hazardous stuff and you won't have a fumes issue. I use it to clean algae off my aquarium equipment due to the fact when it breaks down it's harmless to the fish being just water. Plus it doesn't matter if it's absorbed into the sponges, can't imagine CL in the sponge would help the returning microbes.

Well if you do ever kill them off, please post on the smell. I've had some experimental worms die and it's a whole new smell (especially considering the small size of them) compared to rotten food, which also doesn't start off as smelling like roses ;)

Sorry I can't help you on a pathogen, for vermicomposting that's one of the issues we don't really have a problem with so don't know much about. Our stuff is more environmental.

How about limonene, the stuff in citrus peels? I've heard that worms can't stand it. Could you buy citronella spray in bulk and pump it through the system?

--Maureen

We tried concentrated limonene with little success. It does kill the worms that come into direct contact with the full strength oil, but the nature of the treatment system is that they have ample place to hide.

Stop the air flow and the worms will die (or move on) and anaerobic bacteria will eat the dead worms. Once the system is cleared, crank it back up and aerobic bacteria will return to work. :)

stumbling around the web i bumped into something called Garlic Barrier - might be an option?

steamyb: Now I know that knowledge has been burning a hole in your pocket since the 24th. Good on you for lasting this long. But you know he will say it worked for only 90 days, say it failed, and not see it as basic normal periodic maintenance when one is creating red worm nirvana. The pods are a great and much needed idea for handling waste. I hope they succeed. Us all's hobby is proper use of waste for good, too. So I applaud hg's efforts in the field. hg seems to of been given a system designed by an expert to make work that nobody could of made work. It takes good ideas and experimenting before the system was put in place. Where is the system designer now? If I was the designer I would want to know all about this issue. Working against nature will not work as we know or keep learning again and again. These pods are such a good idea I would like to see some of our experienced worm growers go into the field to see the situation because I know they can help. If hg spent a few hours searching the archives it should / would bring a few options to hg's table. If the pods are a commercial venture then the designer should of come across this in prototype. And hired you and our many other great posters as experienced consultants because your information is worth it. I can see helping a person starting up their first bin. We do want to promote the hobby and the use of worms for composting operations of all kinds. ummmm. I think stopping the airflow is exactly what should be done. It may not have the I need to kill them all right now factor our poster is looking for. It should work fine.

I think hgtvdream.com is the proverbial 'turd in the punch bowl'. To come on a vermicomposting forum and ask 'how do I kill worms?' is a farce. This is the most bogus post I have ever seen. What I read at http://www.wastewater-compliance-systems.com/Documents/WCS%20bio-dome%20Brochure.pdf said that these things operate at 5C. This seems a little cold for wigglers.
And after 7 years of 'field testing'- according to http://esciencenews.com/articles/2011/01/09/igloo.shaped.poo.gloos.eat.sewage -
All at once, worms?
I'm just not buying it- I think in 7 years these scientists and developers of this thing would have seen this 'problem with worms' before the rush to market, and I doubt they would be asking 'hobby wormers'- how do I kill worms?
I think the 'perfect storm' for worm incubation and growth only leaves me with 2 questions- where can I buy one and how do I harvest it?

Where are you located? Your first post says MI . . . If you are close by I would be happy to come take as many as possible off your ummm . . . hands, lol. I'm in Mid-Mi (Flint Township area)- I have lots of 5 gallon buckets and 18 gallon bins!

I thought this was bogus. LOL

You know equinoxequinox, if this had been real, a lot of the 'pro' worm farmers would abandon worm pits and buy these poogoos to raise worms in. They are only $100K. LOL
I hope you and the squirm are well.
Wurmz iz e-z!

I sort of believe there is a college student working on a project started by someone else. That is my guess. I do not know if what I linked to is the same system the poster is talking about, but how many poogoos can be out there.

Worms in the system are actually a good thing. People with hydroponic systems find gravel clogs. The addition of worms helps. Yes worms can live 100% underwater with enough oxygen in the water. No doubt the worms are actually helping the poo pods to not clog up. Worms are ubiquitous. They are even in house gutters when people remove the leaves. The system needs to be redesigned to incorporate worms.

It would be nice if hgtvdream.com or bugmenot checked back in to update us all. No doubt trying to kill the worms only resulted in even bigger problems.

The worms, if they even exist, would be unsaleable due to heavy metal absorption. They would be toxic waste.

I still have the tiny system. Two bins smaller than 5 gallons each. Flow through, supposidly, when I can get it to flow and not clog or stay in and not all fall out. I am rethinking my philosophy of not tearing up bedding nor cutting up food. I think one of those spinning barrel composters to precompost, mix, tear up, break up, evenly moisten, get past the fruit fly stage, would be a good pre step. Thinking a lot about rabbit colony above chickens above worm bed system.

As for me and the squirm... I'm still afraid of every single one of them. I have no idea why I have this hobby.

http://vermicomposters.ning.com/video/aquaponics-and-worms
I think this video captures the 'worms in water' best.
I am working on a 'hot' compost system now with Sbucks UCG (free) and junk mail (also free). I am looking to take my worms 'off the grid' next winter, and 'hot' would work in a big enough system.
pjames uses a 'precomposter' to speed up the worm food micro-herd, I would just hate to spend more money on this 'hobby/obsession'. I promote the worms as a readily available and affordable alternative to the landfill that just happens to make excellent soil amendment in the process. If the cost goes up, that may hinder some from trying the worms.
I also have considered the rabbits for the meat and the worm food, but I don't want to have to feed rabbits daily. Chickens are out (smell) so I will keep the worms and let them eat this garbage.
Have you seen this?:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bBfld8x6fg
What do you think?

I don't see any particular reason to treat this as a troll post, folks...if you are running a purely microbial treatment system, I can see how worms would take up undesired residence!

I am thinking...if you applied weekly vibration from the 'upstream' side coupled with a very weak electrical charge, you might be able to simply 'run them on through'. It wouldn't be a fix for the fabric alteration,though...although if a finer screening were applied to the wastewater before it was sprayed on the pods, perhaps...

Best of luck and keep us posted!

Yeah, I belong to an aquaponics-digest that sends out hard to read (due to formating issues) e-mails every day. I imagine there are some pretty great messages on worms in the gravel. Goes to show the worms are eating the nearly invisible biofilm. And how it is not too much moisture but to much carbon dioxide or other gasses in the bottom of bins doing in worms.

On the E-Z Roll I think I commented about it a while back. My review was mostly positive with no major negatives. As I can remember I liked that it was designed around using one sheet of plywood efficiently. Having a bench in the garden is a great thing. Although I know the worms will not come out and get me I would still rather not sit on them. Other people would have no issue with this. The design features are ingenious. The fact that it rolls solves the lifting to move issue. Plus rolling could if you wanted mix it. The moving up or down lid great idea. The add from one side and remove from the other side great. It would be great to be able to purchase one from Sam's Club or Costco made out of plastic. I wonder if the wingnuts could be moved a tiny bit further away from the edge of the board since that area may wear out first. And if wingnuts are made with bigger wings for cold, dirty, gloved, garden hands. It also gets points for being so different than any other system I have read about. It is elegant in design and in how simply it gets the job done. Great for a shady spot in the yard to sit and think. This roll, bins, flow throughs, and cloth inns, it would be fun to have one of each to play with.