Um, you need to feed your plants just like you do your body. You may have enough nutrients in your soil to grow plants, but many people don't.

You'd better knock on wood that you don't start experiencing any symptoms of deficiency down the road.

Trollish question...

I think it was more of an honest question from a new grower. My own experience over the past ten years is that you should indeed be very cautious with fertilizer -- especially when you are a new grower. Otherwise, you are likely to create more problems than you fix. (e.g., you may have poor potassium uptake because of cool weather, fertilize with an all-in-one fertilizer, and end up with excess nitrogen.)

If you plant in the ground, I would say that it's best to start with a very dilute miracle-grow-type mixture at planting, just to prevent severe deficiencies. Mix a very small amount of slow-release osmoscote-type fertilizer for the same reason. Maybe some more very dilute 10-10-10 around first fruit set. If you find you don't need even that much, better still.

Planter people will need more, but I still wouldn't use more than a dilute mixture twice a month.

If you are composting that is basically just organic fertilizer. Tomatoes are not heavy fertilizer users so if you already have good organic soil you will not really need it. Compost tea if you like once it starts fruiting is an option.
The only use I would have for the chemical stuff is perhaps soilless and/or indoor over winter function and then the low light conditions mean it needs less(unless you have 2500 watt halides that is) . Many fertilizers build up salt in the soil so I would avoid that completely.

fertlilizing should never ever be done! it is possibly the worse thing you could ever do for your garden. just kidding. i didnt know to much about it when i started growing veggies way back when. my plants did great without fetilizer once i realized i needed it i used to much and had a whole new problem. i learned quickly that small doses work great for me. i dont use mg as i did my second year. i use all organic stuff and now sticking with using mostly organic material(home made compost). my soil has ben built up over the past 6 years and i think i could lay off fertlizer all together. not that daring yet but i only fertilized once this season with fish fertilizer.

Its a perfectly valid question. In good soil plants should be able to get all the nutrients they need without any supplements. You really shouldn't fertilize anyway unless a good soil test tells you that your soil is lacking in something. Of course, this really only applies to synthetic ferts. Organic ferts can be added almost any time as they do more to feed the soil than the actual plants.

Here is a great article about the difference between fertilizer and compost. What is meant by feeding the soil is one can feed or encourage organisms that compete with or prey upon disease causing organisms. Most of these do well in aerobic conditions. That is why disease problems are often related to sterile chemically fertilized soils.

http://www.taunton.com/finegardening/how-to/articles/brewing-compost-tea.aspx

I'm gardening on very light soil - originally bank run gravel in an area of 50" of precip/year. By spring it contains zero nitrogen. I use compost but also ring the plants with 10-10-10. Around about now the nitrogen level is again down to around zero - it's done nothing but rain and nitrogen washes out very readily. I'll do a little fertilizing in a week or so and then they're on their own.
But without fertilizer, my plants would be stunted and the crop poor. Compost is a good soil conditioner but it doesn't contain much nitrogen.
In areas of lower rainfall and/or heavier soil, the approach would be different.

oldroser,

What kind of compost? Good compost has plenty of nitrogen. If you see its washing away you can top dress it.

I compost and fertilize HEAVILY. The soil in my garden is on the verg of spontanious combustion. There are no smoking signs all around my garden. When I buy my ferts at the co-op I'm asked what I'm planting? They think it's for my farm. I've been doing this for a long time, so I know (most of the time) my limits.
Once I planted 4 beautiful 2' high toms from the nursury and added one hand-full of bone meal into each hole I planted them in. The next day I got home from work and they were all standing up tall and straight, but were pure white. Not a hint of green in them. Next day I had 4 dead soldiers flat on their backs.
My whole yard smells of ammoniaium nitrate (babies diaper pale)
I got the biggest best plants around.

"What kind of compost? Good compost has plenty of nitrogen"

No it doesn't.

"What kind of compost? Good compost has plenty of nitrogen"
"No it doesn't."

In most cases it should. Most people compost green stuff (grass clippings and the like), and veggie left overs, both of which are high in nitrogen. If you're composting saw dust well yeah I can see that not having much nitrogen. So, IMHO asking what kind of compost was a very good question. And if you were composting saw dust you should be mixing something else in to get a balance which means it should have nitrogen.

"Why use fertilizer?"
Give them everything thing they need and then some, but not too much. :-)

Randy

jtcm05,

Your answer to does compost contain nitrogen being

"No it doesn't."

Is not something I expected. However it does provide the opportunity to expound on the subject. Compared to inorganic fertilizer compost does not release large amounts of nitrogen but does so over time. However most well rounded compost has plenty of nitrogen available over time.
In the case of leeched out soils I can hardly suggest inorganic fertilizer being the main solution. It is precisely because such fertilizer is soluble and available all at once that allows it to be leeched out. Compare this to compost as a top dressing that slowly breaks down. In addition to its tendency to hold water and contain some of the run off the nitrogen is less able to be leeched out all at once because it is released slowly.A partially decomposed leaf will not dissolve away, for example. As a top dressing one need not even worry whether its completely finished since its away from the roots. If you have lots of earth worms like I do they eat the compost on top and release nitrogen in the soil. They are all over my cold pile. I don't have to pay for it, it holds water and I don't have to worry about salt build up. Why not make that the primary source?

I don't object to using fertilizer as a short term solution or as a correction to certain issues. However for the home gardener there is a better way. I just moved a few years ago and I have more of an issue with production than anything else.

Indeed, lots of fertilizer gives you some spectacular plants. Maybe a bit too spectacular when the bugs show up. Fat, juicy and puffy plants are irresistible to local pests. It's a trade off between sturdy slower growing plants and the tempting prime rib of the plant world. Personally I go with the healthy, tough and promising plant that survives through the season, IMHO.

I use mainly what would be considered organic fertilizers and soil builders. I could probably get by without adding anything except my mulch now as I've got my soil built up after 15 years of gardening in the same spot. I use horse and cow manure from the pens, loose alfalfa and grass hay mulches, grass clippings mulch, bone and blood meal as my main every year additives. I will add some other supplements along with compost at times. My plants are look and produce well. The sweet corn looks dark green and grows fast. When I first started and used some commercial fertilizers I had no worms. Getting more all the time and now getting to the point I'm not going to till most of it this year just add manure and mulch over it. Has worked great on my asparagus bed also. I get plenty of nitrogen. It is just of the slow release variety. Each should do what works for them but with time and effort you can reach the point you can grow any vegetable without commercial fertilizer but I feel you should still feed the soil in some way. If not in time it will be depleted of needed minerals and nutrients. I've had people tell me they never add anything and theirs do ok. Then they come and look at mine and see the plants and production and ask why theirs don't do that well. The proof is in the results you desire and get. JMO. JD

Solanacaea,

thanks for posting that link on the compost tea

Catman, can you post a picture of your tomato plants?

As plants grow they can deplete the nutrients that are in the soil, the general rule of thumb is to sidedress (with fertilizer or compost) when the tomatoes are about the size of a quarter. In really sandy soil , further sidedressings are recommended but you have clay which holds nutrients well.

To me the goal is great taste with high yield. Not interested in 10 tomatoes when I could get 40 with optimnum care.

You could do a little experiment and fertilize a few (organic fert. or whatever) and leave the rest alone and note the results.

Tomato plants benefit from proper nutrition. Proper nutrition can be got from various sources and practices both chemical and organic.

Some folks are blessed with good native soil, but most soils become deficient after periods of garden use ... particularly in nitrogen which is highly mobile.

Soil pH is another issue that must be addressed when determining nutrient availability and delivery.

Your tomato plants will tell you when the soil is deficient in a particular nutrient whether macronutrients or micronutrients. But you have to know the signs to be able to tell which deficiency is being expressed.

You can have your garden soil tested ... and that's the best way to determine its sufficiency BEFORE you plant tomatoes rather than waiting for the plants to tell you what they want. The test results should include specific recommendations as to what you should add and in what amounts per square foot.

A lot this other commentary appears cavalier and capricious. If you truly want to do it right ... then do it right. Like I said, there are many methods and sources that will work just fine whether organic or chemical or a combination.

Bill

"...compost does not release large amounts of nitrogen but does so over time. However most well rounded compost has plenty of nitrogen available over time."

Lol, no....it doesn't. Did you read that on the internet? These perpetually propagated internet fallacies by posters that just simply do not understand the underlying components are comical. Compost is organic material....plain and simple. It's food for soil organisms. A soil amendment. It should not be used as a sole source of nutrients for your plants. By the time compost is broken down, all the greens no longer have the high N content that they started with. In fact, if you apply compost to your soil that hasn't been fully broken down you can actually rob the soil of N because it will be used by the soil microbes to complete the composting process of the material you incorporated prematurely.

Now please don't misunderstand me. I am not downplaying the tremendous advantages compost provides to soil health. It is far and away one of the best soil amendments you can use.

Compost is NOT a fertilizer and no knowledgeable compost authority would call it "fertilizer".

Compost is a soil amendment, a great one, that will improve the availability of the natural nutrients that are already in the soil to the plants. But even as it decomposes over time it adds only minimal nutrient levels to that soil.

Dave

Manure is a fertilizer. If not then how are corn farmers getting top yields here with no or very little added commercial N? And why would we be spending the cost to buy, haul and spread it if it was of no value? Some do add some but most have cut way down because of the costs of commercial fertilizers and are still raising good crops. There has been many trials ran in our area on this. The main thing is to find what works for you. JD

> You can have your garden soil tested ...
> and that's the best way to determine its sufficiency

Bingo.

The question (and these answers) are utterly meaningless unless this simple requirement has been met.

I don't understand why this isn't glaringly obvious -- it is for professional farmers who can't afford to play guessing games with their crop.

Hello jtcm05,

Lets look at your logic.

"If you apply compost to your soil that hasn't been fully broken down you can actually rob the soil of N because it will be used by the soil microbes to complete the composting process of the material you incorporated prematurely."

Ahh... no. This is something you miss read on the internet. This applies to high carbon based materials like wood chips and saw dust or hay or leaves. When micro organisms begin to consume them the short fall will be nitrogen and temporarily compete for nitrogen given the excess of carbon available until the carbon is reduced and then begins to add it again. Its not a problem as a top dressing or mulch because its not near the roots else no one would be adding hay or leaves as mulch would they?

If you were correct then guano or worm castings for example will rob the soil of nitrogen in any state of decay and you are of course mistaken.

"Compost is organic material....plain and simple. It's food for soil organisms."

Yes even nitrogen fixing organisms

For those who disagree for use as a "fertilizer" please submit your corrections here.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/compost

1 : a mixture that consists largely of decayed organic matter and is used for fertilizing and conditioning land

Uhhh last time I looked, Merriam-Webster wasn't recognized as any sort of legit authority on gardening, much less composting. Many even question its validity as a dictionary. ;)

Compost is food for soil organisms, not for plants. Fertilizer feeds plants. Compost feeds soil food web.

Dave

Digdirt,

You have previously indicated this forum is for the lay person. Compost makes the soil more fertile and in generally accepted English may be considered an equivalent to fertilizer while also having other qualities. Most people are trying to fertilize their plants if there are intermediate stages its not relevant to the discussion. Compost is often used as a fertilizer such as worm castings or guano because they are very rich composts. Other composted material such as leaf mold may be thought of more as a substrate or soil amendment. Even partially composted horse manure has more nitrogen than a Tomato plant would know what to do with. The idea that fresh horse manure would compete for nitrogen is absurd(not that you made this statement).

I did not see that you provided a reference. Here is one on fertilizer.

U.S. Department of Agriculture

http://www.agriculturelaw.com/links/dictionarya-f.htm

Fertilizer - Any organic or inorganic material, either natural or synthetic, used to supply elements (such as nitrogen, phosphate and potash) essential for plant growth. If used in excess or attached to eroding soil, fertilizers can become a source of water pollution.

Compost contains these elements.

The subject of the thread was initially does one need any fertilizer when using compost. You can certainly do well without it. A garden using worm castings will be quit lush.