Hi Aaron - with a few exceptions, seeds from hybrids are not normally saved. They may be sterile but more likely, they won't reproduce true. You won't get the same tomato from them. Rather it will be either a mutation of some form or a revert to one of its parents, the 2 varieties that were crossed to make it.

If you want to save seeds then you need to grow what are called open-pollinated varieties of tomatoes as well as other vegetables, not hybrids.

You can read more about this over on the Seed Saving forum here if you wish.

Dave

Here is a link that might be useful: Seed Saving Forum

Thank you Dave

Aaron,
You can certainly save the seeds for the Julietts if you wish. There are at least 4 parents in the breeding line. I have seen long slim as well as fat plum shapes both with and without belly buttons grow from Juliett volunteers. I could be fun to see what you get and if you can select from future generations until one of them reproduces true. That is what de-hybridizing is all about and that is how most of our beloved heirlooms came about - an accidental cross followed by saving and selection. If you have room, go for it. As Dave says, if you want a specific variety, you will have to save seeds from an open pollinated type or purchase hybrid seeds or plants. It is possible to de-hybridize a hybrid to breed true but that is a longer discussion.
Happy gardening,
Jim

It is possible to de-hybridize a hybrid to breed true but that is a longer discussion.

******

Much longer. ( smile)

Actually there are two breeding lines in the construction of modern hybrids and each line can have up to 4 genetic inputs.

There are OP versions of some hybrids that are out there but for some of them some folks don't think they come close enough to the original F1 hybrid.

A couple of examples:

Sungold F1. Reinhard Kraft in Germany has developed and released 4 OP versiona, the latest being Big Sungold Select which I grew last year. But none of them have retained the fruitiness of the original.

I dehybridized Ramapo F1 but it only had two parents, as many of the earliest hybrids had and it only took out to the F3 before I had something good and the F1 was grown at every selection for comparison purposes.

At another site I've been offering free seeds of Early Girl F1 as an OP version and that one was done by someone else, but I have few seeds of this PSR-37 left. And those who have grown it think it comes pretty darn close to the original, which was bred in France.

Juliet F1 was bred by the Known-You Seed Co in Taiwan and they also did the original Santa F1. I don't know of anyone who has developed a good Juliet OP, but there's always a chance. And Santa F2, the original grape tomato made famous by Andrew Chu, is interesting b'c of 100 saved F2 seeds 99/100 come true to type, the offtype being round and with a lower Brix value.

I can see the sense of trying to dehybridize varieties that are suspects for going out of seed production, but I wonder about fooling around with modern hybrids in terms of the worth of it that one might get.

Yes, maybe 95% of the known family type heirlooms came about by natural X pollination and then someone had to make selections and grow it out in successive generations until the OP stage was reached, and that can take , usually, from 3-10 years depending on which traits are being selected for.

The other 5% originated by mutation from pre-existing varieties.

So if someone has LOTS of room to grow out the number of plants necessary at each generation it's a fun thing to do.

Carolyn

Very informative and fascinating! Thank you Jim and Carolyn.

I have learned so much this year. Not sure I want to mess around with de-hybridization... yet ;)

For next year I definitely want to try and get into some heirloom varieties that I can start to explore the seed selection and saving process.

I will say though, that if these tomatoes come out as good as they look now, I will will be buying this seed again.

-Aaron

What a fascinating thread!
I have quickly grown to love this forum. It's been a wonderful classroom and in just the short time I've spent here, I've learned so much from all of you. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience so generously!

I have a somewhat related question about open pollination.
When you grow several varieties of heirloom-OP's and you plan to save seed, how do you keep them from cross pollinating?

Check out the FAQ here on cross-pollination. I linked it for you below. Since it is minimal most seed savers don't worry about it unless you want to guarantee 100% purity for sales or trading and such.

Dave

Here is a link that might be useful: How to prevent cross-pollination FAQ

A friend of mine has been growing volunteer Juliets for several years and had gotten some very good grape tomatoes. Yes, they are variable. He likes doing this because one batch of Juliet-offspring vines he has grown for about 4 years now get 15 or 16 feet tall and he gets off on that.

I think where folks get the idea that growing out hybrids results in "sterile" plants is that breeders like to use male sterile parent lines as the pollen recipients in hybrid crosses. This eliminates the need to emasculate the blossoms as pollen from the pollen donating parent can be applied to the fully opened blossoms on the male sterile plants. That saves a lot of time, labor and money!

Male sterility is a regressive trait, so when you grow out the F2s from a hybrid with one male sterile parent, you will get 25% plants caring the male sterile genes in a dominant expression and those plant will not set fruit.

Male sterility in tomatoes often is linked to the green stem gene and this helps breeders indentify the male sterile plants in the seedling stage. If you know what you're looking at, you can cull the male sterile seedlings when growing out F2s from a hybrid that has a parent with male sterility linked to green stem expression and avoid growing "sterile" F2s.

Thank you for that link Dave!

Great stuff! I too love seeing these plants get tall. I built two 6 foot trellises for my first round of toms. After reading more and seeing pictures of some monster plants, I built the next trellis to be 7 feet tall. I would love to have eye level tomatoes!

Thanks again for the great information.