Maybe it depends on the breed of worm. I have some red wigglers and the grown ups look like they're about 3 to 5 inches long. But the Pan Fish worms I also have are big and fat and I can always tell which ones are which. I think as long as you have happy productive worms, it doesn't really matter what they look like.

I would like to start raising the largest worms available. I really dont know where to start. The info that I get on line invaribly leads back to fast breeding smaller worms. Any guidance would be appreciated.

Larry

Is this for fishing? Maybe Alabama Jumpers. They aren't really a great worm for composting, but they are big, vigorous and man to they wiggle! They are also kinda gray-ish blue.

gardengolfer (Larry) I got my Pan Fish Trout worms at Walmart. I have no idea what their "official" name is though. If you have a bin established, go spend five bucks on 60 worms and let them go to town. They won't look like much in the store, but mine are as thick as a pencil and most are six inches long. If they'd sit still long enough I'd name them! :)

happyhoosierworms;

Good Idea about local bait worms. I remember now that my local Seed & Feed store sell so called Nightcrawlers.
I also read about African nightcrawlers on line. This strain apparently gets pretty large. Anybody here compost with ANs?

Larry

Back to the original question: Hell no! 5 gallons is the worst yield from 2 Rubbermaid totes I have heard of. My first harvest from 1 RM tote was almost 30 pounds and took my wife and myself over 8 hours to pile and sort that crap. Something is seriously wrong with them worm totes. Give us some more info and we can try to figure out whatÂs going on.
Also size of the individual worm is irrelevant. Composters go by the biomass, which means a pound of worms is a pound of worms. This mass of worms will eat approx. half of their weight per day. Forget worm size and look at the micro-herd that is feeding those worms. Now, guess how many worms are in each tote.

steamyb, thanks for your interest.

Drainage holes on the bottom and air holes on the sides of tubs. Newspaper, office paper and cardboard bedding. A wild estimate is couple pounds of worms per bin. Temps get down to low 50's in cellar during winter.

I feed mostly fruit and veg scraps every 3 days or so in summer and every 7-10 days in winter. I dump 16 oz of food scraps in each bin during winter and more during summer. Seems like they should be eating a lot more.

Last year I started turning the bedding every couple weeks and it kept the bins a little drier and the worms a little livelier.

Open to all suggestions. Thanks

Happyhoosier: The pan worms that Walmart sells are E. Hortensis, the european night crawler. I looked up the people who supply Walmart here. I started with one pack last year, physical count of 32. I messed up and combined that bin with some of my E fetidia worms so I now have a mixed bin as well which is now my most productive, but that is probably due to having the biggest population density. I picked out mature ENC's to start a pure bin. I want to keep separate stocks for bait worms.

I do not think I would bother with anything sold as nightcrawlers. Most of them are captured and will not do well in a bin situation. If you notice the hortensis are not marketed as european nightcrawlers but rather as panfish/trout worms. Probably to avoid confusion and disapointment for the consumer who would expect a nightcrawler to be large instead of a medium sized worm.

Steamyb: I just weighed a gallon of castings I harvested a couple days ago. It weighed almost 5 1/2 pounds. For the growing season, I am harvesting more often and then storing it in 1 gallon ice cream buckets until I use it. One thing I have noticed on the forum here also is the interchanging of the words vermicompost and castings. I find myself returning compost to the worms that looks as good as anything I produce from my regular compost bin. I sieve what I pull out the bottom of my worm bins first through a 1/2 inch hardware cloth screen and then a collander so the end result is pretty much pure castings.

Greengrass: One reason that your worms might not be eating as much is that a temp in the 50's is a little too low. Mine are inside so they are about 78 right now. I also tend to keep my bins a little damper than alot of people. I want to see condensation on the lids. What falls out the bottom of my FT's is still pretty moist and clumped but breaks up nicely as I seive it.

Try to think of your totes as a system. And if you have 2 totes- you have 2 systems because each is a separate micro-environment. Even if you treat them the same, they are separate. Now, what do worms need? Moisture, Oxygen, Warmth, Food and Darkness. What size drainage and what size air holes? The reason I ask is my son split a tote and set up another tote to divide into. He used an ice pick (what he had to work with) to punch holes in the new tote, which is to say that the holes were microscopic and not functional. Without oxygen, this would be an anaerobic stink fest with rotting food added on a regular basis. Drainage and air holes directly impact moisture in a plastic tote. Plastic totes have a tendency to by Âtoo wet anyway. Newer research suggests that compost worms are comfortable at 80% moisture which is way beyond a Âwrung out spongeÂ. Water does not distribute oxygen as well as air so balance is required. This balance is learned from observing the totes. I Âtoss the contents with a fork to eliminate dead air spaces in a tote. I also observe the moisture content (I do not use drain holes-too messy). This is done at the weekly feeding.
Your bedding and your food are the same thing because bedding eventually becomes food. Bedding should be 3X whatever the food amount is. If you choose not to mix (I do not mix except when the tote is tossed), then spread the food on half of the surface and cover with bedding. If you dig a hole to bury the food, you disturb the worms which will affect their reproduction rates. If left alone, worms will multiply like crazy. And that covers the issue of Darkness as well. Worms are photophobic (scared of the light) which is how we can dump and sort.
Now warmth is the only thing I feel needs consideration. And not so much for the worms as the micro-herd of critters that the worms eat. Remember to think of the tote as a system. At 50 degrees, this is a root cellar. Root cellars were what the old folks did before ice boxes and refridgerators. The optimal temperature range for breeding Eisenia fetida (red wigglers) is 15-20C (59-68F), yet maximum growth (weight gain) occurs closer to 25C (77F). In this cold basement, the micro-herd goes dormant and the worms have nothing to eat. And then the worms go into winter slumber. In outside uncultured nature, all of these worms would die after throwing a bunch of cocoons. In the spring, these cocoons would hatch and the worms would carry on with their work of creating soil. In a tote, we accept the responsibility of providing year-round conditions so the worms will prosper and eat our garbage and make us some great VC.

I have 1 inch holes covered with screening around the sides and same on bottom. I have very little drainage and since I started tossing there is no more moisture on cover.

I know the basement temps below recommended but not that interested in spending money for heating arrangement. Can't bring them upstairs because of tiny white insects that begin to look like paint on the walls. Took me an hour to get rid of that.

The one thing that I'd like to try is feeding grain. Been cautious about that in past because of heating and souring problems that I have read about. I've read that you should put in bin like other food and others say spread it on top a spray it. What do you think?

greengrass1, what is your goal? Do you want big worms for fishing or do you want your worms to be able to process more food?

ÂOpen to all suggestions? 2 of us said the worms are too cold. It is mid-July and you have no shady spot to park 2 totes. Most of my worms are not in my house but in my garage. I have a slop bucket under the sink with some worms in it where I gather the weekly feeding.
I'm sure that any grains kept in your coolers will last a long time. As you wish.

hello again.

al- ultimate goal is to get the most compost that I can for my vegetable garden. I also make a tea to stretch it.

Steamy, Sorry but I should have stipulated clearly that my bins are also in garage for the warmer months. Had a few days of 90's and I brought them back to basement where it was 70.

If it's a matter of being too cold in winter then I will have to live with it. However, I am going to see if grains can help out in winter for feeding and giving a little warmth once in a while.

For more compost, you need more worms or you need to feed them more. Let's first look at if you have maxxed out your worms for the space you have. When you look through your bin, do you see worms with a clitellum? Baby worms and cocoons? How many worms are piled up over the latest goody you've fed? If you reach in and get a handful of finished compost, how many worms are in a handful?

greengrass, what do you use as bedding? I add bedding almost every time I add food. I start my bin with a large amount of bedding, then add bedding on almost a 1 to 1 ratio (by volume, not weight) bedding to food as I add food scraps. Sometimes I forget to add bedding, but usually I do add some.
The bedding I use is mostly corrugated cardboard and shredded junk mail, with some newspaper shreds as I have it.
My tote with two lbs of worms treated this way, and fed kitchen scraps and bedding constantly, will need to be cleaned out about every two months, yielding about 4 gallons of very good worm compost, mostly castings.
By adding a large amount of bedding, it also doesn't get too wet. The worms are also insulated by the large amount of bedding so that temps are not as bothersome to them.

The size of the worms doesn't matter so much as how much they eat. Composting worms are supposed to eat (optimally) half their weight every day. So, if you have two lbs of worms, they could eat a lot more than you have been feeding them.

al- Space is definitely not maxed out. I split my bin last yr thinking maybe it would increase output. Don't know how many are piled for latest feed but there is a large pile. I can't feed them anymore without letting food hang around that would sour the bin. I'm guessing that I have btwn 1 and 2 lbs of worms in each bin.

ant- Bedding is composed of 2/3 newspaper/office paper, the rest cardboard, compost, leaves with eggshells. I add bedding to dry the bin.

Feeding schedule in winter is 7 to 10 days about 1/2 qt per bin. In summer every 3 days or so. Lots of wmelon rinds in summer. I cut them in small pieces and by the time the rinds get into bins it is wet and sometimes moldy. I try to drain as much water as possible and then I add a little peat moss to soak up rest of water.

Then it sounds like you need a larger bin, more bins, or a more efficient bin design.

It seems that if I needed larger bin that I would have to feed more often than I do now.

Oops -- I just realized you said the bins were NOT maxxed out. I read that incorrectly before.

I said in original post that I harvest vcompost. Sorry but should have said 99% castings.

Greengrass, here are some things that worked for me. I have a similar situation to you - cold basement in winter very hot garage in summer. My bin is L.32" x W.16"x H.12",plywood, drain holes and lots of 1" air holes at upper edge and in lid, window screen to keep bugs out or in)

First winter: I keep dry leaves that I've mulched with a mower to use as bedding and store them in the garage to use through the winter. My bedding consist of leaves 50%, newspaper and cardboard. When the basement get really cold i thoroughly mix the dampened leaves with an extra heavy feeding of kitchen scraps, greens especially, and leave it in a pile on one side of the bin. This heats up like a compost pile but doesn't have the mass to do damage to the worms and anyway the worms can go to the other end of the bin. This heat brings the temp up in the bin by 5 - 10 degrees centigrade ( I think that's about 10 - 18 farenheit). Worms are noticeably more active. The effects last about about a week and I'm ready with the next batch. This sounds like it's finicky but believe me, after you've done it a couple of times it'll seem basic. You can also insulate the box with extra paper bedding on top to contain the heat.
Fattening worms: as steamyb said think about feeding the micro organisms that eat the bedding/scraps. This is what the worms eat, not the veggies directly. So, from what i've learned from various sites regarding fishing worms and composting worms, I've come up with a supplement that i think works. (Anyone out there who sees a problem in what I'm doing please let me know, I'm still learning). every month or so I add about a quarter cup corn meal, the same amount of textured soy protein (health food or bulk food store)and about two tablespoons molasses in a couple of cups of water that i pour over the scraps/corn meal mix. The sugars are good for the bugs and the grains are good for the fungus. My worms got fatter and started to reproduce faster. I'm not a scientist and I have no hard proof that it isn't all a coincidence but after a year of little activity in my bin I now have thriving, hungry, masses of worms.

In the summer I have a regular compost bin active in the garden and feed my worms almost exclusively on the composted and partially composted contents. The worms turn it to castings/vermicompost very quickly, it's amazingly rich- almost black and no fruit fly or other bug problems. Worms turn the already valuable nutrients in compost into castings which make them more readily available (bio-available) to plants.
hope this helps.

Greengrass, I just re-read you first and last posts. How many gallons is an 18 inch Rubbermaid bin? 5 gallons of almost pure castings may be pretty good depending on how much you really feed and the temp, which affects metabolism.

If you castings are about the same weight as mine that would be about 25 to 30 pounds. You might even net more castings if you harvested more often and fed to keep the bin full.

One thing I have noticed is people tend to think about what they feed and the bedding in the bin as 2 separate things. They are not- at least to the worms. If you put a 1/2 pound of juicy watermelon onto 3 pounds of cardboard and paper then as far as the worms are concerned you fed 3 1/2 pounds of tasty decomposing or soon-to-be decomposing stuff.

I tend to look at my bins differently. The FT's I keep full to the top figuring what comes out the bottom is castings to be saved or uneaten bedding to be returned. I look at the wetness of both the top and bottom guessing when i need to add a little water or just add dry bedding to the top. I generally think in terms of what I am harvesting from the bottom- more uneaten bedding/casting ratio? drier etc.

My tub bins are a little harder to gauge. I keep them full aslo of bedding adding a little food along the way. But worms are NOT going to go eat where you feed them then go crap someplace else. I go more by time since the last harvesting and my estimate of the population. (If that bin had a large worm population they should have converted more food/bedding to castings.) Whatever is put into a bin can only go so many places- castings, worm tissue (growing worms plus progeny), energy/metabolism of the worms and microherd, water loss through dehydration and a little CO2.

You need to accept the environment where you keep your worms. If it is a little too cold for active worms in the winter then that is ok.. A little too hot in the summer in the garage, that is ok too..

I keep my worms in a back bedroom so the temperatures do not vary too much. I have to keep the house temps about 70 in winter and about 78 in the warmer months. That is more to keep my wife at least satisfied if not happy.

Make the worms go with what you have and not the other way around. Just realize the effects.

"But worms are NOT going to go eat where you feed them then go crap someplace else." Yeah, I love that diagram that shows the in the ground garden pet vermicomposter. The worms go in the tube, eat and then leave the tube to use the bathroom.

I too keep my flow though full all the way to the top. If I don't have food I put in bedding or now biochar. If I have lots of food then bedding will go in latter. Instead of a lasagna garden it is lasagna vermicomposting. I too return material to the top. If I need more room at the top for watermellon I take some out of the bottom.

Thank you very much to all. This has been a learning experience for me.

Clayfoot, I will definitely try your ideas. I often wondered about molasses for the worm bin as I use it to feed the microbes in tea making.

Please let me know how you put the grains in the bin. Do you spread it over the top of bedding, if so, at what thickness?

Greengrass, I mix the grains dry, spread a very thin layer on top of the castings under the bedding , and sprinkle with the molasses water mixture. I don't think it's critical that they are introduced in a particular way. I sometimes mix them with your vegetable scraps, too. I usually add 1/2 to 1 cup total every 4 - 6 weeks. I have no idea if more or less than that would be optimal. I don't want to mess with something that works and I've got more pressing things to do than set up a set of worm bin experiments (although I would like to). I suppose you could add some with every feeding but I haven't tried that.
Good luck!

If you want your worms to get big and fat for fishing, add grain (preferrably "spent" grain) as a feed. You must be carefuly with grains, since they can lead to "protein poisoning". "Spent" grains are predigested and the worms can digest it better. If you feed regular grain such as chicken scratch or ground corn, only feed as much as the worms will consume in a 24 hour period. If they don't eat it all, remove the left overs and re-feed. Optimum conditions: not too crowded, correct moisture, and plenty of food, will fatten worms. Of course, if all you want is compost, like the above post said, a pound of worms is a pound of worms.

Here is a link that might be useful: Vermicomposting

This may be a silly question, but how much does a typical "gallon" of VC (compost or castings) weigh? If you are harvesting 5 gallons, and a gallon of water weighs 8 lbs, you are harvesting approx 40 pounds of VC (or castings), yes?

That sounds like a lot from two totes... but that's just me, and I'm new and just getting started on my own herd of wormies :)

-veronica

Hi greengrass1; If you want to grow out your worms to a maximum size length and bredth then the two secrets are temperature 66-68 deg F for most composting worms. Space with a good population of microbes and fewer worms than normal .5 lb per sq ft. The feed stock can be dry crushed oatmeal a nearly perfact food for worms. Sprinkle on top of bedding and mist to dampen with a plant mister. Mist only where you feed. In 2 weeks they will or should be much larger.

Smallest composting worms are red wigglers. They are from what I've read the best worm for composting because they tolerate a vareity of temps, and compost fast, in addition to being flexible in their living environment. Follwer by RW's are EU's, Eur0pean night crawlers, which are about 1/2 size bigger then RW's. Then you have African Night Crawlers, which are the biggest. Of course there are other composting worms like the Canadian Nightcrawler, but those are harder to maintain.

Besides all the other nitrogen and carbon already in the bin I like to add cornmeal to the surface I just sprinkle it on the surface until its covered and the worms love it . I also on occasion add crushed egg shells for their gizzard. I havent read here about anyone adding cornmeal. Watermelon yes they seem to love it.