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worms abandoning ship

17 years ago

This will be longer than i'd like, but...

I built a bin myself from a large wooden box i had already. It's about 2 ft deep, 3 ft long and I partitioned it down the middle to make two smaller sections. Put holes in the bottom for drainage, there is plenty of ventilation. I used shredded news paper for bedding, inserted worms and coffee grounds. I sprayed (with a spray bottle) the contents every day for a week, then read somewhere on this forum about leaving the worms alone to do their work. I backed off to wetting only once a week or so. I checked yesterday and I have little carcasses all over the garage floor around my box.

question: am I too dry? Coffee grounds are still in there, but dry in places. Bedding isn't damp all over, & worms haven't spread out from the middle of my box.

The box is in my garage. It's not a well sealed or insulated room, but warmer than outside. do I need more moisture and heat? The only real expense I have in this operation is the worms, but I'd rather not have to start all the way over again in the spring when it warms up. I have probably 10 pounds of food scraps and coffee grounds, but nothing composted.

any help will be much appreciated.

thanx,

scott tx

Comments (15)

  • 17 years ago

    It is hard to diagnose a bin problem we can't see, but from your description I would think your bin is too dry. I also think it is overfed. If it is overfed, the food will add moisture to the bedding as it breaks down, and your bin could become anaerobic. What does the bin smell like? A slight ammonia smell means too much food. A slight sewerage smell means not enough air circulation. If it smells like damp paper, or forest duff, things are probably OK.

    Is the bin heating up?

    Keep the moisture like a wrung out sponge. Actually, the worms like it moister than that, but the decomposing food will supply the extra moisture. Newspaper tends to dry out.

    Stop feeding until the worms catch up. How many worms did you start with? If you only have a pound of worms, 10 pounds of food is WAY too much. Add a pound or less at a time and wait until it is mostly gone before adding more. You may only be feeding once a week for a while. As things pick up (that could take two or three months) you can feed more often.

    (Did I read that right? You said you have 10 lbs of food scraps and coffee grounds. In the bin or set aside to put in the bin?)

  • 17 years ago

    Bryce is right, the less food, especially in the beginning, the better. Worms can survive solely on bedding anyway, overfeeding causes all sorts of anaerobic fermentation. I didn't start adding over a lb of food until a month after my bin got established

  • 17 years ago

    You can always freeze your garbage until ready to go in the bin. I usually have to, because we eat a lot of fresh produce. My frozen stash comes in handy when we don't have as much garbage. Worms will eat aproximately half their body weight in garbage, per day. For example, 1 pound of worms will eat aproximately 1/2 pound of garbage per day, IF their environment is ideal and they are happy.

    I have also been told (and read) that redworms will start to die in temperatures below 50 degrees F. They also do not like to get any warmer than 90 degrees. Temperatures in the 70's are ideal. You might want to consider moving your system into a little corner of your home where the environment would be climate controlled. Other than when it comes time to harvest compost (which can get messy), it is clean and doesn't smell. I started with 2 pounds of worms during the summer, and I have zillions now. Or, perhaps you can find a way to add some warmth in your worm area.

    As far as how much water to add to your bin, it probably depends on the size of your bin, as well as the type of system you are using. I pour about a quart of water on my top layer once per week, just prior to feeding. If I add fresh shredded newspaper, I sprinkle a small amount of water on top of it to moisten it, followed by a sheet of unshredded newspaper. A watering can with a sprinkle type head works perfect for doing all this, as it adds the water gently. However, I have the Can O Worms system (it's like a worm condo), and it has lots of ventilation throughout the system. It also has a spikot that I leave open all the time so the tea can drain continuously into a bucket. It lets excess moisture out when needed, and also lets in some extra air.

    The worms need some air circulation, so you may need to add additional holes, perhaps in the top of your system. As far as moisture goes, things should feel equally moist throughout the system, but not soggy. If you accidentally get too soggy, dry shredded newspaper helps.

    Sandy

  • 17 years ago

    Ok, I have to jump in here. I want to point out - a well run bin shouldn't have ANY water coming out the bottom! If your goal is to produce the HIGHEST QUALITY verimcompost or vermicastings there should be no excess moisture at all! All that water running through the bedding is carrying away nutrients that should remain in the castings. You should add shredded newspaper or cardboard to absorb any water and NOT have it running out the bottom.

  • 17 years ago

    Whether there is liquid coming out or not is a function of the system you have, and how it is designed. I purchased my system (the Can-O-Worms) from a business totally devoted to vermicomposting. The people who own the business went to Australia and studied vermicomposting over there before initiating their business in the US. The manufacturers instruction manual that has come with my Can-O-Worms has instructions on how to pour water through the system every week or two in order to produce liquid fertilizer known as "worm tea". I use this on my roses and camellias and it works like a charm. I will never use chemical fertilizers again.

    This process is not harmful to the worms, and from what I can tell with my castings, has not in any way depleted any significant amount of nutrients. How do I know this? My plant health has indicated such. I also have an unbelievable amount of reproduction going on in my worm bins, so obviously the worms are quite content. This is a well designed system, which is why I invested in it, despite a tight budget.

    I purchased my system here in Florida through Our Vital Earth (Ourvitalearth.com). The Can-O-Worms website is www.trifloris.com. Both sites have a FAQ section, and contact information if you have quewstions not answered on the site. I am not in any way connected to either business. I am just an extremely happy customer.

  • 17 years ago

    Wooden bins tend to be dryer because the wood absorbs the moisture. That's one of the positives of a wooden bin, because plastic bins can get too wet. Did you wet the paper before you put it in there? They're probably at the bottom because the material is more damp. Also, when you start a bin, you need to leave the lid off and a light on over it so the worms will stay in. Any time they're in a new place, they try to run for the hills. And I wouldn't mix the coffee grounds throughout the bedding because it might have a heating effect.

    Deanna

  • 17 years ago

    Worm bins made of wood breath. Air flows through the wood unless it has been painted. So a lot of extra air holes are not need. That is the big advantage of wood bins. Less holes for flies to enter. You do need to add water until enough vermicompost builds up, it retains more liquid.

    Sandy808
    You probably wont like me pointing this out but the liquid that you get out of the bottom of your COW is not worm tea its leachate. A lot of bin manufactures pass this misinformation along. It probably sounds better in the advertising.

    Worm Tea is BREWED using finished vermicompost an air pump and molasses. It takes a day and the finished Tea can be sprayed on foliage as a fungicide. It smells great.

    Leachate is just bin drippings it makes an good fertilizer but isn't sprayed on plants. It doesn't smell all that good.

  • 17 years ago

    sandy,
    Castings should be light and fluffy, like good potting soil. If you're regularly "watering" your bin, your bin will be a soupy mess.

    On another forum a fellow wrote saying the seminar he went to, and instructiions said to add a cup of water to the bin daily. He said his bin stunk, and was a mess.

    I told him not to water that it is an urban legend. His bins are dry, worms are happy, and castings are great. Another fellow read the same advice (not to water) and noticed a remarkable improvement in his bin as well.

    The liquid is leachate. Leavings from food. Yuck. Tea is brewed, using a specific process.

    An ideal, well-run bin should not have any excess liquid in the bin. The tap is put there on those specific systems in case there is liquid that needs to be drained.

  • 17 years ago

    To All; Areated VermiCompost Tea!("Worm Tea is BREWED using finished vermicompost an air pump and molasses. It takes a day and the finished Tea can be sprayed on foliage as a fungicide. It smells great.") I would imagine if you take the aireartion out you would have Vermi Compost Tea(VCT). Brewed by taking the Vermi Compost and non clorinated water and shaking it every couple hours for a period and straining it to spray or just leaving the compost in and top dressing while teaing your plants.

  • 17 years ago

    For a while there i was reading compost sites from other countries. None of them had a separate site for vermicompost all the compost stuff was just lumped together. They were not very busy maybe a post a month on worms.

    Anyway on a English and Australian site that i found they did call Aerated VermiCompost Tea "Worm Tea". But, to distinguish the Worm Tea from leachate they called the leachate "Worm Pee".
    And they still got them mixed up.

  • 17 years ago

    For all of those that want to inform me (in so many words) that my bin might just possibly be a mess, it is not so. I have an extremely healthy, happy worm bin, that has been actively breeding, and has a wonderful earthy scent to it. The compost that I have harvested is wonderful. No, it is not a soupy mess. I haven't seperated and weighed my worms, but I started with 2 pounds, and they are processing through more than 10 pounds of garbage per week. Something positive is going on in there.

    I trust the business that I purchased my system from, which is "Our Vital Earth", here in Central Florida. Perhaps you should call and chat with them. They went to Australia to train, and are experts in vermicomposting. I am passing along what I have learned from them, and from my own experience. I have followed this business's directions EXACTLY. It is also what the manufacturer of the Can O worms teaches, and is what is directed to do in their user manual that came with my system. Quite frankly, I consider them the experts here.

    The liquid that I get out of my system is considered to be worm tea by many. You can call it whatever you want. I think it's not worth the argument. I cannot imagine that anyone would heat this product up. It is full of beneficial microbes, which would be killed by the heat. (I would never consider heating this stuff up). The microbes are what help control insects and disease when used as a foliar spray, and enhances soil activity when poured around the plant. It also adds nutrients. My liquid has absolutely no scent to it. I have never had a bad smell from any of the liquid collected, even here in Florida. I keep this system in my house, in a spare bedroom, because of the cleanliness of it.

    The tap is put on this system to drain the liquid, as well as add additional air flow into the system. Bernie, one of the owners of Our Vital earth, also keeps her tap open with a bucket under it all the time.

    I also have had no problems with small amounts of coffee grounds added in with my garbage. I feel it is an adavantage to have a mix of sizes and textures. It allows air to circulate and helps prevent over heating.

    I'm happy, and have had great success...... and since most European countries are way ahead of the United States in their philosophy about environmental care, I don't feel that most of them are into any advertising hype.

    To each his own.

    Sandy

  • 17 years ago

    Sandy no one said a thing about heating up the Worm Tea.

    AVCT is brewed by putting a air stone in water with a small bag of vermicompost and allowing it to bubble. The molasses is food for the microbes, they multiply like crazy with the extra food and air.

  • 17 years ago

    The worm tea/leachate distinction is important. Leachate will contain traces of undecomposed organic matter. This will lead to anaerobic decomposition. Anaerobic decomposition creates volatile organic compounds which are toxic to plants.

    Sandy, you seem to be having success doing things the way you are doing them, and we can't argue with that, but you should be aware of the potential problems. It is also an important distinction for others who may try to do something similar to what you are doing, but without the same success.

  • 17 years ago

    Whoa! Let's give Sandy a little room. Her routine works for her. Also, we should all remember that location makes a big difference in our wormery maintenance. She's in Florida and today the temperature is going to be in the high 70's. I'm in San Francisco where it is in the 40's and raining with lightning and thunder. I haven't needed to water my WF since a massive ant infestation last summer. In fact, yesterday I added a little dry coir to balance out the moisture. Altho my WF is covered, it is outside and the combination of the heavy rain and latest feeding sparked a huge increase in mites and potworms.

    And one question for Sandy: Can you repost the wesite for the Can-O-Worms company? www.trifloris.com didn't work for me. Thanks.

  • 17 years ago

    Thanks folly grows. I have to admit I was rather annoyed, and about to abandon this forum. The rose folks are considerably more friendly. The idea of these forums is to share.

    The website for the Can O worms manufacturer is www.triformis.com. Maybe I posted it incorrectly before. The business that I think very highly of in Central Florida is www.ourvitalearth.com. Excellent customer service. They also ship, although it is always nice to try to support a hometown business first.

    The Can O worms complete set-up isn't what I would call cheap, but on par with other types of composting systems, and in some cases is less expensive. It certainly is more economical than constantly purchasing compost. After much research and attending various cooperative extension seminars, I decided to sacrifice spending money on some other endeavers, and treating myself to this system.

    As Bernie (from Our Vital earth) has said to me, "vermicomposting isn't rocket science, just common sense". Obviously, if someone opts to keep their worm system in a less climate controlled environment, their culture of it is going to be different, and have wider variations in how they do things.

    There is no perfect system available, but I felt that what I invested in would be the least troublesome and the most user friendly system commercially available. It works well for me, I am very happy with it. I just wanted to share my experience with it. I keep it indoors so that I can provide a good environment for my worms, and so they won't die with temperature extremes. We can get quite cold at times in the winter here, and our summers are generally brutal. Other types of systems were not appealing (to me) to keep in the house.

    The "teenagers" and some of the babies like to explore, and crawl all over the system, including underneath the lid. It is designed so that they can move freely throughout the whole system. It is quite comical to watch one of my male cats sit and watch the bins at times. I'm sure he can hear them moving about.

    Incidentally, I started one system in June, and the other in July, of this year. When I mentioned the garbage I can process in one week, that is for one bin. That is how prolific the breeding has been. I started with 2 pounds of worms in each bin.

    Sandy

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