Tons of nitrogen, almost to the point of burning the plants. Just keep piling it on and they will just keep growing green leafy plants with little to no flowers...

That's the only way I've heard of, not sure why you'd want to do that, but to each his own I guess.

Doing it without some sort of "craziness"? Not possible.

But if you wanted to for some reason then you would also need to time those high nitrogen feedings just right - approximately every 16-18 days.

If it is an indeterminate, you could keep cutting off the growing tips so it is forced to grow some new side shoots and then every time it thinks it might want to form a bloom cluster you slap it with another high N dose.

Dave

Hmm, I thought there might be another way to do it as well?

For me, I planted a Great White. Put it in a nice big container with potting soil. Watered it LOTS. It stayed good and wet, let me tell you. Fertilized it regularly.

The thing is at the top of two 54 inch cages up ended on each other, and has, like, 3 blossoms. :)

Hmm, I thought there might be another way to do it as well?

****

Did you have something else in mind?

How long would you plan to keep them in a vegetative state and well, I guess I really would like to know why you want to do this. ( smile)

Carolyn

Technically you cant, they are age sexed, not photoperiod.
You could burn it with nitrogen to encourage
more leaf growth, but its still in a reproductive state
youll still get flowering, just less.

Moral of the story? You technically cant.
Theoretically, you can make it greener but that is just silly.

Chemicals can retard tomato flowering but are not recommended. And as far as increasing the nitrogen levels given to the plants will only INCREASE the number of flowers produced by the plant. Ami

And as far as increasing the nitrogen levels given to the plants will only INCREASE the number of flowers produced by the plant.

Quote from the book "Greenhouse Tomatoes, Lettuce & Cucumbers by S.H. Wittwer & S. Honma.

"High nitrogen and phosphorus levels during the early seedling stages are necessary to produce the maximum number of flowers and fruit.
In a typical experiment, as the nitrogen was increased,flower numbers were increased. The more nitrogen the plants received, the more flowers they produced."

Ami

I would back up what Samlez said. Genetically, once they reach a certain point they are programmed to "get it on".

So the idea is to alter things which reduce the growth rate (time it takes to initiate x-number of nodes before producing a flower cluster).

Reducing light would reduce flowers. And for a short time root pruning might as well (but then why not just pinch the flowers). These arent always the best idea for a number of reasons.

Ami, how they respond to N amounts sorta depends on the variety. But very high amounts of N can cause flower drop.

I would assume the reason you want to do this is because you planted too early and are trying to "hold" the plant until planting. If so 3-4 recommendations:

• 1-move the plants into slightly larger container every 2 weeks planting them slightly deeper each time. It will stimulate root growth and slow flowers some

• 2-keep the plants cool. this will slow growth rate but is not always easy to do and keep in adequate light

• 3-limit fertilizer and water. this also slows growth rate.

• 4-if you get flowers go ahead and remove them. it wont be the end of the world

I would not recommend people use growth regulators to stunt plants. That is not a good idea on food crops.

Also, reducing watering is another way to control growth rate

Ami at $49.99 used or $125 new I'd say you got ripped off on that book.
There's just as much crap in books as there is good info, maybe even more.
I'm going by experience and as stated above high nitrogen will cause flower drop and in many cases deformed or no flowers at all. FYI bloom boosters have higher levels of phosphorous and potassium than nitrogen.

It's obvious you don't have the publication or have read it either. Anybody that says "Tons of nitrogen, almost to the point of burning the plants" is not thinking clearly.

The authors and contributors to this book are all tops in their field and most come from the university level including the authors who are from Michigan State University.

Since the author of this thread is from Canada it's not to hard to figure why he is asking this question. I'm located at 49 deg. Latitude in Germany and still have not planted my tomato seeds yet! My answer would be to replant your seeds unless you have a greenhouse to grow your what must be leggy plants by now if they are already flowering. Been there, done that.

BTW, have you heard of the "Cold Treatment" when growing tomato seedlings? It was developed by the author's of this book and one of the reasons I bought it. Ami

Anybody that says "Tons of nitrogen, almost to the point of burning the plants" is not thinking clearly.

I didn't say that! But nitrogen is what is needed to grow vegetation so that's what I would increase if I didn't want fruit.

Since the author of this thread is from Canada it's not to hard to figure why he is asking this question.

Actually I would think since the growing season is shorter, why would you hold it back??

I know what the cold treatment is but I didn't learn it from that book. I've got much more necessary things to spend my SS on.

"Actually I would think since the growing season is shorter, why would you hold it back??"

Really, Last day of frost for pondlover366's area is 1 May and more likely 15 May. So what is he supposed to do with his plants that are or near the flowering stage till May? Get real!

"Anybody that says "Tons of nitrogen, almost to the point of burning the plants" is not thinking clearly."
I didn't say that!

Nobody said you did. homegardenpa third post this thread said it.

Nobody said you did. homegardenpa third post this thread said it.

Why bring it up in reply to me then??

Really, Last day of frost for pondlover366's area is 1 May and more likely 15 May. So what is he supposed to do with his plants that are or near the flowering stage till May? Get real!

First off there's no info that has stated it was a good idea for tomato seeds to be planted this early in his zone.
Second I am real, I start plants at or near the right time so I don't have rootbound plants that are stressing when planted out.
If it were me I would start over. I just started my seeds and they will be large plants when it's time to plant out but I also have a lighting setup that can grow mature tomato plants well into fruiting stage if need be. I grew a sungold select (inside) through early winter so I'd have more seeds come spring.

You should "Get real!" and tell us from experience instead of quoting from books which could include many false statements. There's nothing wrong with quoting from them if you have tried and believe what they say though. Personally I would rather try it before quoting it to make sure it is in fact correct. Don't believe everything you read especially on the internet or in the fiction isle.

SIMPLE solution... cut the plant off at the base, let the plant dry out thoroughly.... you will now have a tomato plant trapped in the vegetation stage, and it will never flower, nor will you need to give it high N doses or anything, heck you can even frame it if you want...

Kidding aside, I am curious as to why you'd want a tomato plant to stay in vegetation stage.

Most people who write books have been there and done that. The reason for the book is to diseminate information to those who don't have the time of facilities to do the research.

So, your saying the book "Greenhouse Tomatoes, Lettuce & Cucumbers by S.H. Wittwer & S. Honma includes many false statements,Is of no use to the tomato growing enthusiast and at $49.95 used is a rip off.

I don't think I need to say anymore as you have already shown enough with your comments. And you have been a member of GW for a whole 2 years, WOW!

I like your answer catman.

Actually weisenbacher I owe the book more credit and I quote again from it. ""High nitrogen and phosphorus levels during the early seedling stages are necessary to produce the maximum number of flowers and fruit."
This quote includes the words "phosporus" and "early seedling stage".
The sexual cycle isn't early seedling stage. Need I say anything about phosphorous?

I'd also like to point out that the title of the book contains Greenhouse and it's not that the book would be a ripoff to someone who could interpret it properly.

What is "phosporus" and "phosphorous".

You know what I meant wisenhiemer. Anything to argue aye?

Now we know why you don't like books!:) It's been a hoot, I'm outta here.

all right kids let's get along.... lol

Probably would be best I avoid this turbulence but just can't
bring myself to do it.

I think there is actually real value in Catman's suggestion.
I'd suggest a bit of a modification; specifically, leaving the lowest sucker that exists to reform itself into a main
leader. Now that ought to keep the plant well challenged with just developing itself again into a situation where it might spring a flower bud or so, and, indeed, such buds may be dealt with terminally as previously discussed.

But please, dear Sir or Madam Pondlover--can you not at last tell us why, indeed, you desire to maintain the plant in a vegetative state? After all, when we Assume, we well might make an a-- out of u and me!

"Anybody that says "Tons of nitrogen, almost to the point of burning the plants" is not thinking clearly."

By the way, yes, I said that... And I stand by it, too. Oh and clarity of thought is actually a strength of mine, as is patience and a good memory. The only times - in all of the years I've ever grown tomatoes - that the plants have delayed flowering and lingered in the vegetative state longer has been when they were grown in overly rich (predominantly N) soil.

To sum up this thread:
1.) It is IMPOSSIBLE to keep the plant in the vegetative state forever - except for maybe Catman's suggestion. Plants will flower when it's time, to what degree can be reduced based on certain factors.
2.) You CAN delay flowering, but it will happen. Ways to delay or retard flowering by limiting certain factors such as sunlight, water, etc. (see Mulio's post).

Since this thread has gotten a bit heated, please keep in mind that this forum is intended to help. My comments are always in line with that. I have never attacked anyone and always sign my opinions with disclaimers - "your mileage may vary", etc.

To quote Socrates (a favorite quote of mine):
"I know nothing except the fact of my ignorance."

I never claimed to be an expert - and frankly, I'm immediately skeptical of anyone who makes that claim. I read, I observe and I remember; When asked, I'll recall from that and give my opinion on the hopes it will be helpful.

I would agree that high nitrogen concentration, of course not to the point of toxicity will induce longer vegetative stage to the point that so much nitrogen during reproductive stage will cause plants to produce more leaves rather than fruits/grains.

The timing of application of both N & P specially during the early stage will cause the plant to produce healthy and ample amount of leaves and lateral buds or tillers in some plants because of adequate amount of N and healthy roots because of adequate amount of P which may result to high yield/ fruits or grains during reproductive stage.

But high N & P is not sole equation for high yield. Nor would induce flowering but K would.

O ! Many comments . I did not read them all . But I have a great idea how to do it :

JUST KEEP NIPPING ANY BUDS AS SOON AS YOU SEE THEM.

you will be growing vegetable.. hehe

Sey

I don't understand why this old thread has been revived when there are so many superb and well known persons who posted above and already answered the question more than adequately, and that includes Mulio an expert tomato geneticist and physiologist miesenbacher, Ted, from Germany and so many more.

I stop by here from time to time and also get notices about updates at home on threads where I have posted many years ago, again, lots of digging around for older threads and then reviving them, for what purpose I'm not so sure,

Carolyn

Sey, I guess you did not read the OP from 5 years ago...lol

<I think sometimes people do a search, fail to realize they're reading an old thread and absentmindedly reply.>

True but it would be nice if they actually read the whole thread first. In most cases they would find their 'new' question was already answered or, as in this case, their added info/point was already in the thread. :)

Dave

You are calling pondlover a TROLL?

How long have you been reading/posting here? I've been here since 2000, it says 2002 in my profile, but that's b'c the server here accidentally deleted everyone and then entered 2002 for everyone.

You are absolutely right that some may not know they are reading an old thread, but I've been here much longer than you and also know that lately old threads are being revived,No problem in someone doing a search for themselves and then giving a LINK publicaly, if needed.

Why would I ever click where it says to switch off notifications when the notices I receive are sometimes the highlight, ahem, of my day.

Carolyn

Thank you Dave for your post was a few minutes before mine b'c I went slowly, trying desperately to find the best words to use in my reply

Carolyn, 75 and still alive and will be 76 on June 26 and had to find something that rhymed with that and someone suggested 76 and still 6 ft above, which I didn't understand until I was told that before putting a casket in a grave the hole had to be 6 ft deep. And on that note, time to swich to a different message site right now, but I'll be back when I get another one of those notices. <G>

digdirt & wormgirl (nods to you guys!), I'm all for it but a pet peeve is when revival is done to hock gimmicks. This is a fantastic forum with a huge collection of information, and tomato growing information usually has no expiration date any more than the decades of experience some growers have. Full steam ahead. I love this forum.

I disagree with the comment by carolyn137, which to me partially suggests that threads should be frozen after receiving replies by experts. I don't understand why anyone would continue posting on a thread they are not interested in. I do not think everything to be known about keeping a tomato plant from switching to flowering mode is contained in the messages in this thread. Yeah, people can be lazy when replying and it can be a bummer that they offered nothing new, but that ranks far above the time I learned to use my delete button for spam emails instead of getting my feathers ruffled over them. To quote something my Dad might have said thnking of Ella Fitzgerald, "Into each life a little spam must fall." (rain is the original word, but I wonder what farmers in the 1940's thought of this song after remembering the dust bowl years).

Newbies frequently bring the questions I enjoy most to the forum's attention. That does not mean in any way that when I see something Keith Mueller says I don't enjoy it. One of the things that makes this a vibrant, unmoderated community is the fact that everyone can post whatever they want and usually get it answered enthusiastically. I just wanted to welcome japh_82 to the forum and say this is an interesting topic and thanks for joining up. I look forward to reading your next posts & comments!

I would like to add to this thread something that the comments in this thread missed. Simply cut off the growing tip and root it. I started a Sungold tomato in September 2014 in a 6 ounce yogurt cup and it was indoors until the end of March 2015. It became rootbound in that time and grew to about 2 1/2 feet in length and although it slipped into flowering mode it was deprived of its nutrition and had a miserable life. But in March, I snipped the growing tip, and now in mid-May I'm eating a Sungold a day for the last week. The plant is rapidly filling out, and shows no sign of disease or frailty, and pale green pearl-necklace trusses are popping up all over it indicating that in a month I won't mind sharing some of the tomatoes with the birds if they decide to try tangerine colors this year.

There are risks of concentrating disease when you take cuttings but if you do it carefully on big seedlings, I really don't see any problem. Don't bother experimenting with the rest of the plant. Throw it away, roots and all. If you want further explanation, ask Carolyn about blind seedlings. And it works with determinates too, when the cuttings are taken in the vegetative stage. I would estimate that I'd delay flowering 3-4 weeks, if this were done with a seedling that was growing too aggressively to wait for its transplant date.

PC

Just one comment PC.

You said:

I disagree with the comment by carolyn137, which to me partially suggests that threads should be frozen after receiving replies by experts. I don't understand why anyone would continue posting on a thread they are not interested in. I do not think everything to be

No, I did not partially suggest that threads be frozen, rather, if you go back and read you'll see that I suggested that a person who was doing a search first post it as a LINK in now my words, (in his or her first post) when going public with it,

Carolyn, enough already on this topic? I hope so.

I prefer rather than reinventing the wheel, that old threads be recycled rather than linked just out of respect for the content and posters of them. No problem Carolyn, the basis of my comment was the conclusion in your earlier post, and I hadn't read the later ones (which happens to all of us due to refreshing issues):

"I stop by here from time to time and also get notices about updates at home on threads where I have posted many years ago, again, lots of digging around for older threads and then reviving them, for what purpose I'm not so sure,"

Can you believe I still have a copy of your tomato book, not one now, but two? It is the only one I find useful after going through it once; all the others I'm happy to toss after the first reading. It is a great field guide organized and with the most amazingly useful pictures I've found anywhere.

Don't hold it against me if I miss you in your old style instead of wasting your time stopping in on 5-year old threads that are regurgitated devoid of new content but activated by absent-minded replies or jokes, which we can always stop getting replies to if we choose. A year ago I used to always get excited when you addressed the topics in these posts, and replies you made used to be my favorites. I hope your health has been improving to the point that you will really want to do more of that soon!

PC, a.k.a. (see pic)

Wow, Carolyn, I did not mean to offend. I have actually been here since 2000 as well, in the garden forums, but I did not frequent the tomato forum until this year.

You are right that I made a comment about a member I don't really know, and I'm sorry for that. The reason I thought pondlover might have been trolling in this case was:

1. They posted a question about a subject sure to be controversial

2. They mysteriously wouldn't say why they wanted to do this, even when you asked twice

3. They never came back to discuss the methods suggested.

However, I realize pondlover might have been an active, respected member who never got back around to following up on their message. I apologize - I really didn't mean it as a serious commment!

I may have misunderstood, but I thought you were *complaining* about old threads being revived. I sure wouldn't want you opting out or not replying if you have something to offer.

It's because of your posts here and on Tomatoville that I bought your book and have learned much from both. I'm also looking foward to participating in your seed offer at some point.

Also you share my sister's birthday and my family's love for tennis!

Jenn

the poster asked the question

How do you keep a tomato plant in vegetation stage?

the correct answer is

I do not keep tomatoes in vegatation stage. Why do you ask me an incorrect question.

It crossed my mind that maybe the OP wanted to keep a mother plant in veg stage to take cuttings thinking if it flowered it would end its life. Total speculation on my part of course...lol

The OP joined GardenWeb on June 30, 2010. She made three posts that day plus a comment, all on June 30, 2010. She asked the identically phrased vegetation state question in the GW Pepper Forum and was given a very short answer: to increase Nitrogen and snip lower growing tips.

On July 6, 2010, she found GW for the last time and made one more comment in the Pepper forum on her same vegetation state thread there, to say "sounds like a plan, thanks guys", and then disappeared, with no comment of any kind to the good folks in this forum.

I hope she is still alive and well. Some of the replies she received were very well written. Pity she missed out on all the fun :-)

Another practical comment that the earlier expert answers did not cover related in this general topic. The question asks how to increase the length of the time the tomato plant is in the vegetative phase of growth in my interpretation. Don't damage or remove the lower leaves when potting up. It's the same argument as that of removing side branches channeling more energy into fruiting, since the lower leaves are probably net "suckers", too.

PC

Oh really? Interesting. I assumed I was insulting some venerated member. Thanks, PC.

I really only was making a joke anyway...

Yup, wormgirl, but don't waste your time checking it out ... just a case of Much Ado About Nothing and I was amused by your troll-comment at the time, so nothing to explain LOL. FWIW I find this thread both interesting and fun. Interesting because the topic is great and there is so much more to be learned about it, and fun because the tomato forum, which I love, brings out the passion in people but nobody escapes the addiction to keep coming back for more ...

Cheers!

PC, & back to my venerable Tomatl shrine ;)

To me keeping a plant in vegetative state simply meant NOT wanting /NOT letting it to fruit.
Vegetative state never stops with most tomato varieties :
THEY JUST CONTINUE GROWING BIGGER AND BIGGER.

Just an example: Most my tomato plants are about 14- 16" tall and most have buds and flowers. Have they abandoned vegetative state/stage ?
My answer is : Of course not. Both states/stages just continue in parallel. And the plant's energy is allocated for both.

JMO

Sey

This may shock sey, but I agree with what he said above.

There are two cycles in the life cycle of a tomato plant. The first is the vegetative one where there is growth of roots and stems and foliage. I think that most of you know that small transplants can and do form buds and blossoms, the sexual cycle, and that means that the energy compounds made from photsynthesis are diverted to the sexual cycle, albeit prematurely. And that's why many growers take the buds and blossoms off those young plants as I usually did when I was setting out transplants. Most tomato growers want to keep the plants in the vegetative cycle until the plants are much larger.

The blossom cycle itself is about 2-3 weeks so after removing any early buds and blossoms the plants will then form new buds and blossoms and at that point leave them on the plant.

From then on of course the plants continue to get larger and larger as well as more buds and blossoms and the then more buds and blossoms and fruit set and fruit maturation, but with more foliage there's more photosynthesis thus more ATP, GTP, etc. to do both at the same time as sey mentioned.

So yes, one can keep a plant in the initial vegetative cycle by over fertilizing it and/or growing plants in overly rich soil since that keeps plants in that initial vegetative cycle without going into the sexual cycle.

I once was living in a small apt in a house that was owned by two brothers. I wanted so much to grow some tomato plants but the only place available was a small strip behind the garage and they said that was OK. I had to buy some plants, not a problem, set them back there and waited. They sat there and sat there and didn't grow, actually hardly any sun and overhanging branches from the yard of the folks who lived in back.

Being now desperate, I fertilized them like no tomorrow and ended up with huge plants that were best used as shubbery, with never a bud or blossom to be seen.<G>

And I should have known better since I'm the one who grew up on what we call a truck farm here in the East where we grew many different kinds of crops, and many acres of tomatoes and by age 5 was sitting on the seat atop the water tank of the plant setter and not that soon after that was riding the plant setter with her Aunt Olive and not soon after that was picking tomatoes, and they were 3 peck heavy bushels, but dad would carry them out to the dirt roadway and then come along later with that two wheeled cart, take them back to the big shed where we would then sort and pack them and load the truck to take them to market the next morning, and the gates to that market opened at 5AM when there was a mad dash of all the trucks to get to coveted spots in the long covered stall where the commercial buyers would walk down the aisle making decisions on which farmers' produce the wanted to buy.

Darn good memories for me.

Carolyn

Wow, GREAT post, Carolyn. Both informative and filled with beautiful memories! I love hearing about your early experiences with growing tomatoes.

I will be watching for that 3-week flowering cycle. I have been looking more closely for where the energy is going in the plants, since an earlier conversation with Dave re: veg/flower in tomatoes. Dave, you were a lot more right than I thought, and I realize that now.

Thanks everyone for sharing your knowledge here!