maybe you should post a link to the article se we all can read this funny article.

Well.....thats one way to get an argument discussion going again without bumping up a dead thread ;)

Here is a link that might be useful: The Future Of Food, Part One

That's really scary! we must stop it now!

Otherwise, someone may discover penicillin, polio vaccine, aspirin, gravity, a way to go to the moon, or, heaven forbid, even a cure for cancer!

I just hope next time they inject tomato DNA with lobster genes that the result is not only cold-resistance ... but a distinct lobster flavor. Yum yum!

Speaking of a cure for cancer...

http://news.sympatico.msn.ctv.ca/abc/home/contentposting.aspx?isfa=1&feedname=CTV-TOPSTORIES_V3&showbyline=True&newsitemid=CTVNews%2f20080627%2fcancer_trial_080627

I was told that years ago, some idot wanted to bring fire into the cave to keep warm. Boy did they run him off as too dangerous.

I would have imported the threads to the old posts but I do not know how, YET. I will try and learn today. There were several threads in 2004-2005 and a few newer. Some, I agree with, some are uninformed knee jerk reactionary posts (those my tree hugging wife agrees with). I do agree with most of what has been posted here so far. HOWEVER; if this thread continues and you want to make a scientific point please post a link to support it. Most of the old posts from 2004 and newer had loads of unsupported scientific 'FACTS' (uninformed). There are a few links and I followed the ones that were still active. Some were very scientific looking but ended up being nothing more than a rampage for or against (knee jerk).
As I stated in my opening post, "I can't wait until there are safe GMO tomatoes for cold climates." My opinion.
REASON: I have been frozen out to many times. 3 out of 4 as a rule, Even with a green house. I live in frozen zone 3.
Remember the taco bell scare a few years ago? GMO corn got into their corn taco shells. No REPORTED deaths so far. If it is good enough for cattle feed 'I THINK it should be good enough for me.'
AGAIN, just my opinion.
James

Hey James.......I'm goin' completely OT for this thread, but I had to comment........I soooo feel your pain (freezing out) lived in Gichrist 14 yrs. 3 of those just off Hackett (we had that 40 acre chunk in the middle). I use to day dream about coming up w/ some sort of 'electic blanket' for my girls...lol...Lived there long enough to see snow (real snow) every month of the yr! Cured that by DH gettin' a job in a Z 7-8 area. I found that by tracking our weather station readings for several yrs that we were acually closer to a Z 1 (sunset) than anything......UGH

Good luck w/ your babies, just know I feel your pain....Been there, done that.......Now don't gotta! (sorry, I don't miss it) ;o)

LaPine is zone 3? Really?

Zone 3 is what the USDA says. But as tracerracer said, we can get snow any day of the year.

I just looked up the USDA plant hardiness zone map. There is no Zone 3 in Oregon. You have to get into Canada before you have to worry about Zone 3 temperatures. LaPine is just left of center in Oregon, so you're in Zone 5 or 6. You're in a warmer zone than I am, and your summer days are longer. You don't need GMO tomatoes. Regular ones will do just fine. You might want to think about row covers or cold frames if you're worried about the cold, but really, I think your tomatoes are going to be fine. :-)

Oregon State University's Extension service does list La Pine in Zone 3 - 4

Here is a link that might be useful: Oregon State Extension Service

That looks like and extremely conservative CYOB estimate.

Can you say micro climate? I have a very retentive DH when it comes to tracking weather. I only used 12 yrs worth of data in figuring out what averages were, but thats what I came up w/, I did say Sunset, not usda.....But a 6? no way....At my house the elevation was 4850 (lower @ Hackett that Gilchrist proper) LaPine is about 4200........Lots of micro climates in between............Frankly I find the 'maps' too general. You know the 'walk a mile' thing. Friends 2 miles apart can have very different results. I have a 'better' spot now than a good frind that live about 1/2 mile from me. She 'frosts' up to 1-2 wks before me (so far)....Go figure.........Besides my post was only to say 'hi' to James and let him know I have felt his pain (locally) and am interested to hear from him if he suceeds (sp?) I spent a lot of yrs poundin' my head against that brick wall.......lol...... ;o)

"Are you worried about Global warming? Come spend a winter here in La Pine", and see if we are a zone 5 OR 6. I must tell everyone that this saying is from a bumper sticker the local print shop sells.
I am indeed a zone 3, if that, I do use row covers (30+ years). I also have cold frames and green houses. Whats more, I KNOW HOW to use them. Micro climates are for real folks. I freeze on one side of the property and not the other. Next night it is the other way around. Weather man says clear and sunny and it snows, calls for 50 and we are 25. He is 35 miles away in another city. I may have 60 good gardening days this year but they won't be in a row.
LOL, We sure could use some GMO tomatoes to go with the GMO corn we all ate a few years ago at taco bell.

Trying to help. Sorry I bothered.

james-in-lapine,

Unfortunately, I have some bad news for you. The experiment to alter tomatoes to make them resistant to frost failed. Please see the link below.

Good luck.

Randy

Here is a link that might be useful: Fishberries? Cornell dispels GMO myths/rumors.

lilacs............I understand that you were thinkin' what you read was true, not real world, not for that part of the world.......I would no more tell someone about where they live and what 'will' (should) grow, than set my hair on fire. I will talk about what works for me here (where ever I live). Those maps are too general, I have always treated them as a rough 'guesstamite'. James is right, 60 days is about right, just too bad that 4-6 happen in Feb, then have to wait for the rest to scatter out from May through August, September..........Too may times I have stood on the edges of water tanks of friends bustin' ice w/ a splittin' maul, ice flyin' everywhere, me not gettin' wet @ all because the water froze as it hit me..(FINNALLY talkin' them into tank heaters, yeah me)...(of course the 'boys' were runnin' behind the barn to see if 'it' froze before it hit the ground.).......lol....Never understood the fascination they did in that ......lol......So, if it 'sounded' like I was 'yellin' @ you, it was just frustration @ the map's inaccuracy. Might be right for other areas, not there..........

Discussion: Plant Hardiness Zones published by various organizations.

USDA

Arbor Day Foundation

Sunset Climate Zones, including these two:
Zone 4 - Cold-winter Western Washington and British Columbia, and
Zone 5 - Ocean-influenced Northwest Coast and Puget Sound

James,

You have a shorter growing season by almost 1 1/2 months than mine and I am Zone 4b. Zone 3-4 I buy it.

Dean

Thank you for the link Randy. I have been there while looking for the tomato-bell pepper hybrid Sunset mag. talked about a couple years ago. Strawberries are one of the few things that will do well here. I do not think they would go well with a fish dinner though.
lilacs_of_may, Thank you for your input. The small scale USDA map can not show a lot of detail. The large state maps can.
anney, Thank you for your input as well. Please note the center of my state. There are 4 different zones that merge, THAT is La Pine, Oregon.
tracerracer, was that frozen water tank June or July, LOL.
BTW folks, 4 July 1994 the county broke out the snow plows to clear 4 inches of snow from hi-way 97 as well as the main roads in the greater La Pine area. The weather man in Bend, Ore. had called for thunder storms. We got thunder snow instead.
This is why I want gmo cold tolerant tomatoes, corn, ECT.
Speed up the pace!!! Snow fly is coming sooner than you think!
Speaking of corn, I had ordered Painted Mountain from 2 (never order from them again) seed sources, 1 didn't send me a thing the other sent me something called Triple Play.
I W/S it in pots with a cool weather short season hybrid that won't grow here. 3-Play is doing better than the N-K hybrid but both were transplanted a couple week ago. Time and thermometer will tell. Anyone from the frozen areas like mine ever try Painted Mountain?

Well I found something like that bell pepper-tomato hybrid cross I mentioned. It is not it but is something like it. Victory seeds says it is an heirloom. They want $1.95 for a 20 seed packet. I will keep looking @ that $. It seems that the cross I am looking for is only grown for export to Japan. So far no links to any seed or info that it is a GMO.
I think this will lead to a link.

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:1349408}}

I found RED aphids and a couple of spider mites on my tomatoes today.My eco-terrorist (LOL) girlfriend wouldn't allow me to spray as the plants are at her house. Jeanne made me use soap and water to spray them with. GRRR, How long will this take to work? I wanted to use tobacco tea. That would have worked over night and not hurt my tom's or my peppers. If she won't let me grow things the correct way I may take my baby's home and make her eat store bought.

LOL........I don't have an answer, but you picked her......... (it would serve her right) ;o)

Oh! wait! I know, I don't know what I was thinkin'! you live in La Pine! Break out the camo and night vision, mix yer stuff and sneaky pete out there in the dark of night! (She'll never know!) Now if your not a serious redneck and don't have night vision, let me know, remember, I lived in Gilchrist and have contacts. (some kinda scary, but for a brother in need.....)......hehehe...........T

Though the tobacco tea may be an organic way to solve your aphid problems, it could harm your tomatoes. The tobacco could be carrying the tobacco mosaic virus, and that virus affects tomatoes.

How old was that Taco Bell story? Over 60% of the corn grown in the U.S. are GMOs, so unless Taco Bell buys organic taco shells, you can bet that there was and still is GMO corn in it, and for that matter that it was fried in GMO soy oil since 90% of soy grown in the U.S. is GMO. Here's a link: http://www.ers.usda.gov/Data/BiotechCrops/

As a matter of fact, the whole reason there has been salmonella in our tomatoes is because they crossed an eggplant with a tomato, and everybody knows that eggs have salmonella...(that was a joke.)

You don't have to anticipate the GMO revolution, you've embraced it long ago. According to the link they have only been around the market for about 12 years, (I'll hold off on assuming that the safety of them is positively assured.) Scientific research is constantly ongoing in all areas. For example, we see "fully tested and safe" medications removed from the market all the time. How many times have you seen a law firm commercial looking for people to join a lawsuit against a drug company because they took a once FDA approved drug that is now deemed unsafe and removed from the market? (Side affects may include diarrhea, death, etc.) So go on "lol"-ing we've been guinea pigs for the last twelve years. Not all side affects are immediate.

As for the the idea that since GMO corn is good enough for cattle feed it is good enough for you...maybe not. Though this link doesn't allow full access to the article, you can get the gist of it:
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/summary/281/5383/1578b

Of course the grain doesn't have to be a GMO to cause this effect really because cattle haven't evolved to properly digest grain. They're meant to graze on plants rather than grains. But I suppose we could splice some bird genes into the cattle so that they could properly digest grains. Of course then we'd have the problem of the cattle going south for winter...
But that could be solved by throwing some grizzly bear genes in them, then they would stay. They'd stay but they'd be hibernating all winter. Well throw some penguin genes in there... they don't hibernate. Of course, by this time you've thrown so many bird genes in this poor animal it's gonna taste like chicken, and nobody would want to buy a steak that tastes like chicken.

tracerracer, she lives in Redmond and due to the cold we had at my place I moved 1/2 my tom's to her place, 50+ plants, not all tom's. We are both recovering from surgery and splitting the care of the babies was a good idea, we just garden different. As far as redneck, no, I am however VERY VERY rural. Sheriff Pete is by often to see my new guns.
I did boil up a few ashtrays worth of cigarette butts and put the tea in a milk jug. I know it will work for the mites. And as I DO smoke around the tom's I know there is no tobacco mosaic virus in my smokes.

jackbenny wrote, "The tobacco could be carrying the tobacco mosaic virus, and that virus affects tomatoes."
That has been almost wiped out here in the U.S. What little there is gets plowed under. I smoke around my tomatoes and would see the infection as soon as it started.
The Taco bell story is just a few years old and was on all 4 networks as well as in the print news.
Kraft Foods announced recall on September 22nd 2000. Here is a link I got off google,:
http://www.supermarketguru.com/page.cfm/240
Just type in "taco bell recall" and you will find enough info to keep BOTH sides happy for a few days.
As far as "So go on "lol"-ing we've been guinea pigs for the last twelve years. Not all side affects are immediate." I am a retired GI and have the VA for health care. I am a GUINEA PIG! And, now that I have your blessings, I will keep on "LOL-ing".
Both sides of my family were Dairy farmers, so guess where I grew up. To state that "cattle haven't evolved to properly digest grain. They're meant to graze on plants rather than grains." is real funny to me. Grains are what? Grass. Most grass will form what at its top?, you guessed it. Nice link though, and you were right in saying that NOT all the info is there. A lot of knee jerking though.
As far as GMO bird-cattle-bear, your just being silly. The breed of animal you are suggesting already exists! Haven't you ever been to a Military mess hall? Been there, seen it and I ate it.
As U.S. Americans, we all know what the USDA is.
Again, now that I have your blessings, I will keep on "LOL-ing".

Here is a link that might be useful: taco bell recall

Good to know that the mosaic virus is mostly eliminated.

James in Lapin wrote: "Both sides of my family were Dairy farmers, so guess where I grew up."

I guess I'd have to say where I am, Wisconsin...you must enjoy living in inhospitable climates. Since you grew up on a farm you know that in a pasture, cows will go for the clover over the grass given the chance, and unless they are pastured in a meadow, they aren't getting that much grain, and even then the grass seeds aren't that significant compared to the foraged green. Technically corn is a grass too.

As for the article being "knee jerk," it didn't really draw up any conclusions, it was merely reporting scientific observations which may help explain why e coli has seemingly increased, and hopefully help create a solution based off of the findings. A knee jerk reaction is coming to a conclusion based off of personal bias and little or no knowledge of the facts.

Yes, the cattle penguin was just being silly, everybody gets too huffy with this subject. I thought a little levity would help loosen people up.

GMOs offer the possibilities to help feed starving nations in an overpopulated world, and denying that is just ignorant and irresponsible. However, assuming that such things are completely safe just because a profit driven corporation and the USDA say so is equally ignorant and irresponsible. Like you say, we all know what the USDA is.

The gene is a wonderfully complex thing that we are just starting to learn about. I take no sides.

Sorry to hear about the surgery (both of you) I have a few 'eco-people' as friends myself, hope you both have recovered well....Just couldn't help myself w/ the night vision stuff...(I have a little bit of a twisted sense of humor, and a vivid imagination) lol.......Oh, by the way I have contacts in Redmond as well (some family too) or Prineville Or Bend or Alfalfa...Oh yah, Sisters too. (did I mention Tumalo? there too)lol.....Just give me the word......... (;o)

jackbenny, I miss understood, I thought you were taking a stand against. I too, think we should explore GMOs in a safe manner. Not only can we feed the world with them but we are about to colonize the moon and will need them there.
I ran across a few postings here that were all BIASED reactions about GMOs, all against and nothing for and no facts. So, I started this thread to hear what my fellow gardeners thought about GMOs. I still can not figure out how to link to those posts but I will go back through and find them and post what is in the subject line of each. I will try and do it as a url as well.
My girlfriend is dead set against them in any way, and agreed with those other opinions. Gardening and farming is one of the few things we do not see eye to eye on.

tracerracer, Gilchrist is zone 7? Your just a bit higher than I am and only 16 miles away.
My friends and I will most likely have one BIG last target shoot in Sept or Oct, come on over. It drives the city folks down the road Bananas. I also pop a few off in the middle of the night to scare off the deer when they are where they are not supposed to be.
Your humor is no more off beat than mine.
As soon as I see those big ugly horn worms I will be out in the dark looking for them. I may take you up on the offer of your NVG's then. LOL

I hope all these come through. there are several good debates here in these links. Several are nothing but 'knee jerks' however. The hyperlink is to the search page.

genetically modified seeds?

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/tomato/msg0209152514636.html

Composting with store bought vegies - GM Issue?

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/organic/msg0811194513862.html

bother you - at all??

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/rmgard/msg121102286765.html

What's so bad about genetic engineering?

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/organic/con060857415767.html

houghts on genetically engineered crops?

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/wisconsin/msg1109035819607.html

I can't wait for cold tolerant GMO tomatoes!!!

Here is a link that might be useful: GMO

Cough, sputter, choke........."tracerracer, Gilchrist is zone 7".........I guess my first post didn't stay w/ you.........I am NOW in a z7 after spending more than a dozen yrs in the brown town......and frankly don't miss it (the climate, not people).......I'm in SW OR now tucked in a valley that @ times gets snow, can get cold (relatively speaking, of course, but my ground doesn't freeze here, yea me!) But, the days are long in the summer and my growin' season is easily 3x the one there, if I put a little more effort into it (which I'm workin' on this yr) I could do it yr round (I have a great place for a 'greenhouse' on a southern exposure wall for cool weather crops this winter, worth a try).........happy huntin' (shootin') I should figure out how to post a picture, I could show you the muley my DS shot his first season, opening day, he's a beaut. He field dressed about 250 (and was mighty tasty) DD and DH have drawn Silver lake, so it's her turn now......

tracerracer, you did say you had moved south and into greener fields. I got caught up in the rural thing. ;-)
Good luck to dd & dh.
I am off to portland VA today. Rural folks are gathering for the big Peddle hunt. They have a big bounty when they wander out of their lane in city traffic. I hear they are not good to eat though, metallic taste, so I will leave them for the street sweeper.
Hurry up with my GMO tomatoes!!! it was 35 deg last night.