I am trying this with black sea man. Have glacier growing also and wasn't aware it was determinate. Will try that too.

I just transplanted Glaciers yesterday, will have to try this when they are almost done, maybe I can get another harvest?

I knew they were determinate - if abayomi didn't, does that mean they will still knock over a cheap wire cage? This is my first year growing them.

Unlike indeterminate varieties (vines) all the growth tips on a determinate variety are terminal tips. That is their nature. They stop growing once they set fruit.

Dave

Here is a link that might be useful: Determinate vs. Indterminate tomatoes

Yes, but Phil was wondering if a new plant propagated from a cutting would produce - I don't see why it wouldn't.

I was just wondering how big a Glacier would get - 3-4 ft? Might not need a cage (I hope) if the vines are sturdy and the fruit is small. Mine are just starting to flower, I was going to pinch off the flowers to let them set roots since just transplanted them, is that not a good idea for determinates? I know you're not supposed to sucker them, which is why I figured I'd try to progagate some from cuttings after harvest.

Yes, but Phil was wondering if a new plant propagated from a cutting would produce - I don't see why it wouldn't.

Yes I understand that. That is why I said they are terminal. Terminal as in they don't grow any more. Genetically, determinate plants have a shut off valve.

Dave

I have both glacier and black sea man with mature fruit and new flowers plus side shoots. I have a cutting from black sea man that appears to have taken root. So the said determinate rules appear to have room to bend. The proof will be in the growth of the cutting to maturity.

I wonder if you took a cutting from a sucker that hadn't had flowers/fruit? I guess we'll have to see how Phil's and abayomi's turn out.

abayomi - how tall did your Glacier get? Did it need a cage?

Should I pinch off the early flowers or not?

Thanks

I have both glacier and black sea man with mature fruit and new flowers plus side shoots.

Yes, that is normal determinate behavior.

I have a cutting from black sea man that appears to have taken root. So the said determinate rules appear to have room to bend.

Never said they wouldn't root. Any piece of tomato stem will root given the right conditions. The question was if it will grow and produce fruit. If not then it is a waste of time and effort.

It isn't a new question. There is ample info available on how determinate tomato plants grow and don't grow. But if you have the time and want to make the effort then sure, give it a try. That is the best way to learn what works and what doesn't work.

Dave

Glacier averages 3-3 1/2 feet tall and does benefit from some light support as it can fall over with fruit weight. It is one variety that the 3 ring tomato 'cages' can work well for.

Dave

Here is a link that might be useful: Glacier tomato plant photos

Thanks Dave. Mine are pretty small, and I planted them deep, so they're only about 1-1.5 ft tall. Didn't take off any flowers, just lower leaves. Should I remove the early flowers to get them to grow taller and get more flowers later? Or is this all I'm going to get?

Obviously, I've never grown determinates before (though some of the hybrids were "semi-determinate" I guess), also this is first year starting from seed so some of the plants (not all - the indeterminates are actually a bit leggy) are smaller than what I have bought in the past. Though not as small as the minuscule Sweet 100's my dad bought (still in the 6-pack)!

Phil - sorry for the hijack. Good luck with the Glaciers!

Ajsmama, no worries, you had similar questions to me so it was not really a hijack :)

My Glacier is in a Florida weave and it is keeping up with the Sun Gold at about 4.5 feet now. The Glacier's growth does seem to have tapered off now, though. It definitely needs support. I did mistakenly sucker it once before I realized it was determinate, so it may have grown extra high.

I may not experiment with this, I have a tiny garden space and I do not want to waste it.

Thank you everybody!
-Phil

Well, we had high-40's as lows the other night so blossoms may drop anyway even if I don't pinch. Mine are about 1ft high (some less) since I buried them deep. But we had pea-sized hail yesterday - they don't look flattened, but the tiny ones don't look good (plus they had gotten sunburnt while I was hardening them off). We'll see how they do - I can always throw something else in that row, only bought the seeds (started end of March) to have early tomatoes to bring to market. 4th of July are still in pots and much bigger (started in Feb, transplanted to 3 gal pots) so might get some fruit soon - if I can get them in the ground with this weather!

On a closer look, my Glacier is well over 5 feet high at the highest branch. If only the dang tomatoes all over the plant would ripen!

Phil - did yours grow taller after they had blossoms? Did you pinch the early flowers? I'm worried mine won't get any taller if I allow these flowers to open (if they will anyway after the cold night).

I did not pinch any flowers. The tomatoes are fairly small and the plant grows very quickly, it should not affect it too much to leave the flowers. Plus, it is a determinate so you are potentially just limiting your total yield.

I can snap a few pics but it has merged with the Sungold next to it, you can see the height though.

Thanks dig dirt. Your comments are noted.

Thanks Phil - I didn't want to reduce or delay my harvest, but I didn't want to stunt their growth by leaving the flowers (and maybe having them fruit) either. We'll see how they do - if they don't grow any larger or get more flowers, I'll just pull them out after they fruit.

Are you in CA? Saw your pepper pix on Hot Pepper forum, they're lookin' good! Some of my Hinkelhatz and Thais are really taking off, cayennes and serranos aren't bad, 2 Hot Portugals look good (and 2 are doing nothing - strange, same conditions) - I'll take pix when they get a little bigger.

Yup! I am near Sacramento. Thanks for the encouragement, my peppers have been a struggle compared to the maters. This climate and soil really seem to be ideal for tomatoes. Not that I didn't know that already, 90% of crops here are tomatoes.

Here is the massive Sungold-Glacier monster. They are hitting about 6 feet now and climbing.

Buying stakes over 6 feet is going to get expensive! You can see the tomatoes at the base if you look in the shadows, all of the ones visible are Glaciers. The Sungold has a few up higher and on the left side of the mass. To give you a size reference, those elephant garlic blossoms in the background are at at my forehead and I am 6 foot.

-Phil

Wow! And Sacremento isn't really hot, is it? When did you start them? I thought determinates weren't supposed to get that tall - looks like indeterminate to me!

You don't have much space, so can't do something like I have (mine is just under 6ft anyway, since DH sunk the posts in over a foot). But 1 idea is to drive some 4ft rebar in, then slip 10ft EMT over it. To really support the weight of the tomatoes, you'd have to have guy wires and stakes on the ends of the rows pulling back on the EMT. I'll take a pic when the rain stops tomorrow.

EMT is pretty flexible, you could try PVC instead but I don't know if it's more expensive. I know the schedule 40 stuff is.

We did that just to put up 7ft deer netting around the garden near the house. I may have to put netting up around our tomato trellis too.

Here is a link that might be useful: trellis

Sacramento is pretty darn hot although it has been mild this year. I would say every summer breaks 100 at some point, often for days or weeks at a time.

I started these as transplants in the end of March. One thing that could have caused the height of the Glacier is that when it was about two feet I pruned a handful of suckers, without realizing it was determinate. It is possible this caused the remaining growth to go higher. It is also possible that the Glacier has had to grow extra high to compete with the Sungold, peppers will exhibit this fight for the sun when crowded so maybe these are doing the same.

Ace has 9 foot sturdy stakes for $6 each. I will compare the cost of a few of those to the cost of rebar and EMT. The sturdy stakes do seem like they should last a long time, but that is very expensive for a piece of plastic.

My friend had a good idea which was to use a few pieces of twine tied to the balcony above and just anchor them to the main stem at different places.

Thanks for the trellis ideas, I will need to do something soon!

-Phil

Phil,

You can also purchase a second cage and attach it upside down to the top of the existing cage. Stake the first cage securely.

Rick

The balcony idea sounds like a good solution, as long as it wouldn't be blocking a door on the ground floor with a wall of tomatoes (fire code).

Rebar was about $2 for 4ft, and I forget how much EMT was and what size I bought but it's about $2-4 for each 10ft piece depending on diameter (make sure to get the UV resistant type. I bought a dozen to use as fence posts but I don't think you'd need that many. Just use a guy wire and a stake to pull back on the top since it is flexible. So it won't really be any less expensive than the Ace stakes (are those wood? If so, at least the rebar/EMT will last longer).

The nice thing about it being flexible is you can also use it to make a low tunnel early/late in the season when you're not using it to support the tomatoes. So it may be worth it since you can use it for other things.

Rick, that is something I was considering but with wire fence cylinder. I think I will need to get it up to the balcony railing above. No space to let it grow back down, and I still have 4 months in my season...This could be a pretty spectacular tomato trellis lol. At the rate its growing it should be up to that railing and working its way to the stairs! If I am lucky i can guide it with twine I already have and avoid buying anything!

I have not even picked a ripe tomato from either plant yet. Sungolds must grow freakin hugemongous!

Rick, that is something I was considering but with wire fence cylinder. I think I will need to get it up to the balcony railing above. No space to let it grow back down, and I still have 4 months in my season...This could be a pretty spectacular tomato trellis lol. At the rate its growing it should be up to that railing and working its way to the stairs! If I am lucky i can guide it with twine I already have and avoid buying anything!

I have not even picked a ripe tomato from either plant yet. Sungolds must grow freakin hugemongous!