I pruned my plants to two main stems early in the season and regret that I did. Why? The first harvest, which isn't ripe yet) is only one cluster per plant (1-4 fruits, zero on some - you can't control fruit set). And the second set isn't much better. After seeing that I made cages and let the plants go so hopefully I'll have something from each variety before frost. If you have 4 feet for plants I say let them take up the space. If you do decide to prune and stake, with two stems per plant you could go 2 ft or closer on the spacing.

Hi Melissa - pruning and spacing are both quite controversial topics with very opinionated members on all the sides of both issues. So be prepared. ;)

Like spiced ham - I find 2 stem pruning to be not only a waste of my time and effort, it produces less fruit. I hadn't tried it in years after giving up on it years back. So this year I tried once again with a row of 9 duplicate plants - pruned, 2' spacing, and florida weave - vs. all my others done as per usual with 5' CRW cages and 3-3 1/2 foot spacing and only removing the branches below the first fruit cluster that touched the ground.

It only served to convince me I was right to quit it years ago. Earliest production, largest plants, healthiest plants, most production, least fruit lost to sunscald, have all come from my caged plants. Sorry.

Only advantage to pruning - easier to pick.

Dave

PS: Searching 'pruning' and 'spacing' here will get you hundreds of past discussion on both these issues to review.

And while I certainly enjoy and respect Digdirt Dave's posts and opinions, I've found some things to be the opposite.

My pruned plants produced weeks earlier, than those unpruned or minimally pruned, with fewer and yes, some minor sunscald but unquestionably larger fruit. I'm STILL giving toms to folks DAILY who have yet to have any rirpes of their own.

Also, not having a jungle in every plant allows hand cleaning, as well as earlier detection and treatment of pests and disease. Not necessarily an unimportant attribute. Support with any other system other than sprawl or cages requires at least some pruning.

Do some of each. See what works for you and have FUN with it :-)

Dave,

I am planning to build CRW cages for next year and based on searches am considering a 23 inch diameter cage.

What diameter do you like?

John

jel - mine are in that range +/- a square. I have a few old ones that are less depending on where I cut the wire and they tend to be too small/tight for many plants and I have some that are a square or 2 larger that work better. All depends on how many cages you want to get out of a roll of the fencing. If you can afford and store bigger ones, I'd go for it.

Dave

And while I certainly enjoy and respect Digdirt Dave's posts and opinions, I've found some things to be the opposite.
My pruned plants produced weeks earlier, than those unpruned or minimally pruned, with fewer and yes, some minor sunscald but unquestionably larger fruit. I'm STILL giving toms to folks DAILY who have yet to have any rirpes of their own.

*****

Dave, I'm curious.

Why would they produce WEEKS earlier? DTM's are under genetic control most of the time and foliage is not needed to ripen fruits and fruit size for a given variety is also determined by the genes that a variety has.

Sure, amendments and weather and soil and all that can play a role, but I'm having trouble seeing how pruning to two stems can give fruits WEEKS earlier and with larger fruits.

My mantra is and has been, that the more foliage one has the more energy is generated by photosynthesis and that energy is reponsible for plant growth and blossom formation and fruit set and growth of the fruits and synthesis of all the components that go into the fruits.

Melissa, I think it really is best to try different methods, and if you can, with the same variety sometimes so that you can see in one season if there are any differences.

I've grown by sprawling them and sometimes by making my own CRW cages ( about 2 1/2 ft in diameter) and given a choice between staking or pruning to two stems or whatever, I'd chose caging them if you don't have enough room to sprawl them or that wouldn't appeal to you. But you're in Syracuse, not that far from me and so your growing season and possible pests and whatever should be about the same as mine and so I don't see any problems that way.

Side note: For years I'd drive out the Thruway and turn south to drive to Cornell where I was an undergrad and then for years I'd drive out the Thruway past Syracuse to Rochester where I was in grad school. And I'd chuckle to myself from Syracuse to Rochester b'c the length of the playing area for the Indian version of lacrosse was the distance from one to the other and you know how far that is. There was one goal at Syracuse and one at Rochester.

I swear that considering the car I was driving back then that many of those lacrosse participants could have beaten me the distance. LOL

Carolyn

Thanks so much for your comments. Since I can give them room, Maybe I'll just let them be. I was gonna stake though with a 2"x2" 8' tall cedar stake 2' into the ground, will this be enough?

Melissa

I've got my plants about 3-4ft apart, and early on I let one sucker grow so I have 2 stemps per plant and remove or top all the other suckers that come up. Next year I'm going to plant them a lot closer together, so I have room to grow cukes and other stuff and still have the same amount of tomatoes.

I never prune. Why? I like lots of tomatoes per plant! :)

I space minimum 4 feet apart in all directions and I cage. Better for the roots and better air circulation.

This works very well for me.

I was gonna stake though with a 2"x2" 8' tall cedar stake 2' into the ground, will this be enough?

Tall enough? Yeah too tall. It is going to be impossible to drive an 8' stake into the ground much less 2' into the ground. ;) Cedar is a softwood which will snap easily. th. Plus you'd have to have a ladder just to get high enough to drive the stakes.

Seriously, IF you are not going to prune then cages are much better than stakes. Staked tomato plants require at least some pruning just to keep them staked. But if you want to stake then they don't need to be that tall. 6' stakes is the most common recommendation I have ever seed and even they are hard to drive in the recommended 1 foot. Using 1/2" or 3/4" re-rod is easier, cheaper, and stronger than wood.

CRW cages are only 5 feet tall and just as with stakes, you let the longer growth just drape back down over the top of the cage/stake. With them, you stake the cage to the ground with short pieces of wood or re-rod.

Dave

PS: Should I just top off my starts in the spring, so the plant produces 2 side stems early on before setting out?

No, please do NOT do this. If you want to prune, do it only after the plants are recovered from transplanting into the garden and topping isn't the same thing as pruning.

Carolyn,

I've read and understood your mantra for some time and I can't give you good answers to your question.

Big YP is now huge YP. Multiples the mass of any other and has given up maybe a half doz fruits total for the season. I pick that many in 2 days max from little YP and they are bigger. No noticable taste difference. Nearly the same with Gardeners Delight.

I've had 3 very nice Mortgage Lifters from the pruned plant but yet to have the first on the lessor pruned. Pruned Jet Star and Lemon Boy were both at least 2 weeks ahead. Carbon, Sunset Red H, Grampas Minnesota (yuk), Health Kick (also yuk), Sprite same. Who did I leave out? Not the same for Missouri Pink Love Apple, German Queen or Brandywine OTV. Too close to call on Carolina Gold and Black Cherry, one Taxi got sick and neither AGG has given a ripe yet.

If I had to guess, the stress of pruning stimulates the inherent need to reproduce. Fruit set earlier. As suspected, once the initial flush was over, the plants took off and are no longer quite so "pathetic" looking.

It is universally true that pruning reduces numbers. It is universally true that unpruned or lessor pruned plants are bigger, more lush. It is nearly universally true, in my experience, that heavier pruned plants produced earlier. I've noticed no taste difference except for the 3 or 4 toms_total_that had some minor sunscald.

It is also true that my site does not afford a good test. None of these comparisons are side by side or even in the same media. Its what I found just the same.

Oops, I did forget CP. Lessor pruned CP produced before pruned but pruned got fruit worms so it might be fair to leave that one out. I can't recall with certainty which plant was ahead when I had to yank the ruined fruit.

It's has been recommended to remove blossoms, buds and fruits from imature plants so as to maintain the plant in a vegitative state rather than a sexual state.

If that is so, then the logic would follow that failure to remove buds, along with pruning but otherwise nuturing the plant, may force or enhance the sexual state.

Sorry to sound stupid, but does crw mean concrete wire panel cages? I was looking at some photo's and saw that you just attach the CRW to something else put into the ground, so the actual cage doesn't go in the ground, right? I wonder how much it is to make each of these cages? Also would it be 5' or 6' tall? Is there a link I could check out?

Thanks
Melissa

OK, I really need to start using the search button more often. I'm all set on the CRW cages. It doesn't seem hard at all for making them.

Melissa

Sorry to sound stupid, but does crw mean concrete wire panel cages

****

CRW is shorthand for concrete reinforcing wire and it comes in a roll and is heavy. Stand height of the catges will be 5 ft tall.

I don't think it's easy to make them but I think it's worthwhile. YOu have to decide on your diameter and then cut the wire with tin snippers appropriately and then roll it around in a circle and using the snippers bend the wires to complete the circle.

Do wear heavy gloves, leather preferably, please. For many years I had the scars from making them.

You'll find that there are wire extensions at the bottom of the cage that get pushed into the ground, but many folks also use bamboo stakes and weave them down on two sides and shove them into the ground to help stabilize the cages.

Carolyn

I space 'em between 24" to 28" in each direction using a brambling method with heavy duty t-post running parallel to the row of tomatoes with a string set-up that goes four high. When the tomatoes grow, i lap 'em over the strings and continue to do so as they grow. When the string stretches, i wind it up on the t-post connecters to make it taut again.

No pruning whatsoever! It, in my opinion, conserves water and protects the tomatoes better. At least, that's been my experience. [using the brambling or "sprawling" method]

Carolyn,

I appreciate your grafic description of labor required
to build CRW cages. *chuckle*

I will build mine but feel an easy way for some to avoid scars, etc. may be helpful.

TEXAS TOMATO CAGES (Google Search)

They are delivered, ready for use by UPS and cost about double but are six feet tall (not five) and galvanized ie no rust. They fold up for storage.

John

Another vote for Texas Tomato Cages. Best garden purchase I made this year.

But if I was going to build some out of CRW, I would buy the 4x8 panels of the stuff. I would just bend them in half, connect two of them into a square, overlap and join with nylon wire ties. You could leave them 8 feet tall or cut off a few feet. Then snip the wire ties and lay them in an L shape for winter storage.

(Can you tell I am pondering an expansion of my current tomato garden?)

Second Texas Tomato Cages. I am a newbie but already getting tire of the prun/unprune debate since they are comparing apples and oranges. Melissa never mention what support system she uses, so we are going to make assumptions here ? Shouldn't the very first question we ask her is how much space, what support system, how many plants ?

So if I go with Dave1mn2's oppinion about 1-2 stems, I would have two stems in my texas tomato cage. They would collapse and get sun scald.

Too bad there's no exact prove of one is better than the other in a control environment. I will go as far as to state that heavily prune tomatoes will ripen faster, etc...because (assume) tomatoes has taken enough nutrients and energy from sun and roots. Fine I will take that as a fact, for now.

I cage and florida weave, by the way and I have 15 plants. My selfish relative ask me what I am going to do with all my tomatoes. I told her I am going to bring it to work to give to my co-workers, I am going to give to my sister's-in-law's co-worker who request for them, I am going to have a bbq and have my friends eat them, I am going to can some, I am going to give some to neighbors who wants them, I am going to give to my friend that has a restaurant, then I am going to bring them to the homeless shelter. When they sick of the tomatoes, I give drive it to the nearby restaurant.

Since when did having too many tomatoes and not able to give it away a problem ? I thought there's not enough food in the world, especially not enough heirloom tomatoes given it's short life-span.

Grant some people want bigger and they claim juicier tomatoes. But I didn't think it was so difficult to be generous and think of others.

How do we kill this to prune or not to prune question ? We give more details, such as if you are going to stake, then leave to 1-2 stem, if you have cage, then use your judgement but caution that airflow restriction will increase likelihood of disease. Heck, even put in there that heavily prune will produce bigger fruits and faster.

Maybe there should be an FAQ question, "I have all these tomatoes, what do I do with them".
Answer, "give them to the homeless shelter you selfish pig or if you got friends, give it to them". Sorry I got back pain and possibly venting. LOL.

I think everyone should prune to one stem and top off at 3 feet.

I had no problems/injuries making cages from a roll of CRW. Stand the roll on the drive way and let it unwind/loosen, count out your squares, cut with a bolt cutter, pull the round section off and bend the tabs over. = cage in 5 minutes

Do not try to unroll and flatten the wire first.

I had no problems/injuries making cages from a roll of CRW. Stand the roll on the drive way and let it unwind/loosen, count out your squares, cut with a bolt cutter, pull the round section off and bend the tabs over. = cage in 5 minutes
Do not try to unroll and flatten the wire first.

*****

I only messed up with the first few I made and that's not saying that others might be as klutzy as I was. LOL

And about not trying to unroll and flatten the wire first, well, I got a neighbor to stand on it as I was cutting so it didn't roll back on me as it did the first two times. LOL

I'm good at some things and bad at others and my CRW project was not something I was good at. Actually I only had to make them when I lived in Denver in a conventional house with only a small strip of open land by the side of the house for tomatoes. I made 12 of them.

After I moved back East I had acres to grow my tomatoes on so bye bye making cages. ( smile)

Carolyn

"I think everyone should prune to one stem and top off at 3 feet."

Heh, heh, heh! Johnny tomato seed, you are one bad guy. Thanks for the chuckle.

Dee

I have a couple that are one stem, three feet tall. I guess maybe the soil needs a little work in those spots. Luckily one is yellow pear, and you can never have too few yellow pear.

As already stated, I had planned on using cedar stakes, pounded into the ground. I think though, after checking out Texas Cages, I might just buy some of those instead. I can only fit so many plants in my yard to begin with, so I don't have to buy a huge amount. I was planning on doing 18 plants next year, but will think about just 12 and than the following year buying the last 6 cages. I had planned on 3-4 feet sections for each plant too. Leaning more torward 4ft.

Melissa

Sorry to open up a can of worms. I just wanted people's opinion's, if they had pruned thier tomatoes like how I was considering it for next year and how it went for them.

It's NP Melissa. Pruning has been debated, heatedly, since some man found the first tomato plant growing in the wild and decided he could improve on nature by cutting off its branches.

Thanks to him it will still be debated long after man is living on Mars (now that we know it has water). Wonder if it has worms? ;)

Dave

Just for clarification sake, I'm not an advocate of 2 stem pruning. Even when using stakes, I allow more.

This yr. I've tried a modified version of Charles Wilber's method and I'm very happy with the results. While some plants took longer to develop their lower branches than others and looked kinda rangy for a while, production of early, lrg fruits has been far above any of my friend's gardens.