No problems on Linux, Kubuntu. If you have microsoft there is where the problem lies, also check for firefox updates. bill w.

Hello, i use two great free programs, one is made by lavasoft and is called adaware and the other is called spybot search and destroy, download these and run the scan you will be amazed at what it finds.go here: http://www.safer-networking.org/en/index.html also here is the link to lavasofts website: http://www.lavasoftusa.com/ just get the free version it works good and cleans all junk out of pc, also go to the my computer icon on your desktop double click on that and right click on your c drive and left click on properties and click on disk cleanup, this will clear out all temp files etc.. but if you have a lot it may take a few minutes to do its thing, do all these and report back as how much faster the pc runs.ps: restart the computer after each scan is complete.

hehe. I cleaned out my history but I also reset my 'cookies' to clean out every time I closed Firefox. The result? I couldn't Log in. Finally I figured it out again so I am back.
I learned (the hard way) that I cannot have two different security softwares running on my computer at once. They go to war and my computer is then a vegetable. I already have my anitvirus, antispyware etc included with my ISP. So far so good. So we shall see...
thanks for all the help folks! BTW I may end up just uninstalling and reinstalling Firefox anyway.

Hello, forgot to mention about another thing you could do if you are a little computer savvy, go to black viper's site and click on the os you use such as windows xp service pack two etc, scroll down and print out the service pack two service configurations and disable everything he lists as 'safe', go to start-control panel- administrative tools-services,double click on any or all of the services he lists as safe and under the box that says startup type set it as 'disabled'. here is another link that explains what i am talking about: http://www.jasonn.com/turning_off_unnecessary_services_on_windows_xp also turn off the themes they use a ton of memory and only make your icons look good.also another thing i did was to set the computer for best performance instead of the setting that says let windows decide whats best, this will change the way your icons look but will really speed things up. here is how you do this:first go to my computer icon on desktop right click the icon click properties,click on advanced,click on performance,click the box that says settings and click in the circle that says adjust for best performance,this will change the look slightly but will speed things up and you can always change it back if you don't like the new look, but for me it is a good trade off.

Here is a link that might be useful: black viper

Thanks Jason! It took a bit of fiddling out but when I got going it was (almost) fun. A good purge is a healthy thing for us and our computer. Now to reboot.

you are very much welcome, i am always ready to help anyone with computer issues; this is kinda a second hobbie for me, i do everything i listed in my 2 posts almost on a regular basis as far as the spybot scan and the adaware scans because a normal virus scan just don't cut it, but the disc cleanup is almost like a religion to me it really does clean things up as does everything else i mentioned.let me know if you have any other computer problems and keep posting those wonderful tomato pics everybody and we will try to stay on topic...love to all,Jason from cincinnati ohio...

If you were using kubuntu linux you would'nt have to do all that cleaning. bill w

Firefox has gotten about as big a memory hog on Windows as Internet Explorer is. Both browsers use an enormous amount of memory when loaded. Try the Opera browser. It is much less memory intensive, and faster then both Firefox and IE. Opera is also free and has been around for a very long time. It's also what you would be using if you had a Wii :)

Here is a link that might be useful: Opera

I agree with bill, Use Linux.
Unless you like bloat, crashes, and slowdowns.
Windowsxx is not a turnkey system. Constant maintenance is required. I have better things to do with my time than run multiple programs and turn off non-essential services (not to mention constant program updates) just to do normal tasks. justin. I would like to see resource screenshots that confirm firefox is a big memory hog.
Remember, IE is built into the OS, so even if you don't use it, it's still running. You can't escape it.
When I close Firefox, it's closed.
Tom

Yes, linux is a very good OS. However, not everyone is in a position to upgrade. Some people may not feel comfortable changing their OS. I for one can't wait until linux has more mainstream support, and when more vendors release drivers for their products. Right now, it's still mostly being done (and very well I might ad) by the linux community.

If you have a windows box available, feel free to check the memory yourself. Open IE and Firefox and take both of them to google (or your favorite site) but make it fair, go to the same site in both browsers. Right click on your task bar and select task manager. Under the processes tab, find firefox.exe and iexplorer.exe and you will see under the Mem Usage column that they are using roughly the same amount of memory. One may be higher or lower depending on what plug-in's or search bars you have loaded in it, but a base install with no frills should have them both around 22,000K.

I figured instead of posting pictures, it would be more fun for everyone to see it for themselvs.

Linux would be fine, except then I wouldn't be able to run any of my Windows games. That's a deal-killer.

Hello, computing.net is a place i go for in depth computer discussions!! but i really am thinking of a multi boot system with unix or linux on a seperate partitioned drive,i heard it is always cool to play with a few different operating systems in case the almighty windows crashes on you!! (viva los vista??!!!)anyone here ever overclock their cpu? lets try to keep everything on topic, after all, this is a tomato forum!!

Here is a link that might be useful: computing

Try kubuntu linux it is totally free and you can get it sent to you free at (SHIPIT, DO A GOOGLE) .Kubuntu can be installed with windows while you decide if you want to switch or not. bill w.

A dual-boot system is good. I have a few dvd authoring tools that are for windows that I really like....till I can find a good linux replacement anyway.

I have never overclocked my tomato I mean cpu. It can be done. The speed they are set at is what is deamed "safe" by the manufacturer. If you overclock, you do run the risk of burning it up as it will generate more heat. Be carefull!

Ubuntu is a good linux distribution to try. It will have a lot of support behind it for years, esp with Dell distributing it on pc's now.

"a base install with no frills should have them both around 22,000K"
HOLY COW, don't you mean 22K?
If that's all, that's very low.
didn't you say THIS earlier?
"Firefox has gotten about as big a memory hog on Windows as Internet Explorer is. Both browsers use an enormous amount of memory when loaded"

besides, there's more to monitoring memory resources than the layman's CTRL-ALT-DEL system monitor.
Also more than just the two executable files.

And there are some great DVD authoring tools for Linux.

Most people's fear of Linux is more a fear of CHANGE.
Kubuntu with KDE is very user friendly.
Program updates are a snap through Synaptics package manager.
I would even have to say for an average user, Linux is better and easier with less headaches.
At the railroad, I had 38 systems on WinXP, 3 servers on XP server, 3 systems on Redhat Linux, 1 reservations server running Redhat.
Guess which ones kept me busy? I never had to touch the workstations or the server running Linux.
Back to the original post. Firefox uses MUCH less resources.
Your problem is more likely another resident program.
On the flip side, Internet explorer will always load faster, because it is an integral part of the OS and rides resident.
You can't escape it. If I still used windows, I would just run IE. Why have 2 browsers running?

Tom

"HOLY COW, don't you mean 22K?"

Umm no, I ment what I said.

"besides, there's more to monitoring memory resources than the layman's CTRL-ALT-DEL system monitor."

Yes there are other tools, but why not use the one that's in front of you. When it lists "Memory Used", that's what it is.

"And there are some great DVD authoring tools for Linux."

I never said there wasn't. Just that I like the ones I have and I'm too lazy to switch. Besides, they do a good job.

"Most people's fear of Linux is more a fear of CHANGE."

I agree.

"Kubuntu with KDE is very user friendly"

Agreed, I prefer the look and feel of GNOME to KDE.

Started using Firefox a couple weeks ago. No problems at all. Better than IE in most ways, better that Netscape in some. Better at remembering passwords than either in most situations. Can't customize the background colors so far and that matters to me.

Haven't found a site it won't read and it eliminates some problems at some sites ("snap-on" rollovers).

But I'm using it most of the time now.

I just hit ctrl-alt-delete and checked my memory usage on Firefox.

50,620K. Not 50k.

I suppose a lot of that might be cache.

If you are letting firefox use 22MB, or (you're serious) 50MB, you are in serious need of memory management. Firefox.exe is only a 7mb file. You're letting scripts, plugins, and non-essential library files all load at the same time just to call on them if you need them.

"Yes there are other tools, but why not use the one that's in front of you. When it lists "Memory Used", that's what it is."

justin, It is NOT what you see is what you get.
when it list "memory used", That is NOT what it is.
It is only a layman's way of monitoring what files "will use if needed" You're forgetting library files and external scripts. If all you're doing is looking at the word "firefox.exe"
and then looking at how many "k" it uses, then, sorry, you're not giving an accurate assessment of the situation.
I am soooo done with this post.

all_organic_justin Quote:
"Firefox has gotten about as big a memory hog on Windows as Internet Explorer is. Both browsers use an enormous amount of memory when loaded. Try the Opera browser. It is much less memory intensive, and faster then both Firefox and IE. Opera is also free and has been around for a very long time. It's also what you would be using if you had a Wii :)"

Once again, I agree with Justin since switching to "Opera" I speed through the internet it's very pleasant experience now. I used the IE the other day for something and thought how nice I don't have use this thing anymore it took f-o-r-e-v-e-r to load a page. It makes me angry that whatever makes it do that isn't fixed don't the "powers that be" see this issue as important???

Opera is fine, but it misses some of the nicer creature comforts. For one thing, it doesn't work with all plug-ins. Which can be an advantage, I suppose, if you hate Flash and Quicktime and things like that. But for navigating the web, that poses problems at times. And Firefox has some very nice extensions. I am fond of Imagezoom and ForecastFox. ForecastFox shows you the weather forecast in your toolbar. Very nice feature for gardeners, eh? And Firefox has automatic spell-checking which is nifty when you spend a lot of time posting on forums and blogs, as I do.

I gave Opera a whirl and took it out after an hour. It gave me too many problems signing onto different sites I go to that require signing in. The cookie thing was a huge annoyance. It WAS faster though, pity. As someone just said, it lacks some of the creature comforts of Firefox that I use all the time.I don't need all the bells and whistles but certain things I really appreciate having, like no hassles with passwords and signing into things.
I looked into Linux but it says my computer needs to be able to burn discs and mine cannot. Unless I get an external burner but that is the LEAST Of my financial priorities now. Meanwhile firefox keeps getting slower and slower. I have defragged, done a virus and a spyware scan, cleared and reset history to clear daily, deleted and disallowed cookies except for that which I listed, and I cannot think of anything else. I am tempted to go to Internet Explorer again, that is how fed up I am getting. I am still waiting to hear from my ISP on live chat, I have been waiting online for about an hour. GRRRRR

I am sorry for your problems and do not understand why you are having them. I have no problems at all with Firefox, but I am on a high speed cable connection. Are you on a dial up phone connection?

By now, perhaps someone from your ISP has come on line and given you some assistance. Maybe it won't be someone in India reading a script of standard answers that you can hardly understand. I tend to think that your problems lie somewhere other than the Browser that you are using because I do not have any problems.

I think that Firefox has some technical help if you can find the link for it. Have you tried removing it from your computer then downloading and installing it again? Perhaps it became corrupted someway.

I really hope that you can find out what the problem is, because it is a pleasure for me in going to several of the G.W. forums without any problems, ads, banners, pop ups or anything of that sort at all, and 99+ percent of the time it is very fast, even with two browsers open like one with Photobucket open to select pictures from and one to one of the forums to post those pictures in.
Bill P.

If you are dissatisfied with everything else, you can always try Safari, the web browser that Macs use. There is a Windows version.

Here is a link that might be useful: Safari for Windows

doof Quote:
"If you are dissatisfied with everything else, you can always try Safari, the web browser that Macs use. There is a Windows version."

I'm trying this one now because it's toted as being even faster than Opera but I've have just downloaded it so the jury is still out. I did notice that it's a larger file than Opera (4.98MB) to Safari's (29.66MB) stuff like that is important to me because I want as much space for my online game "Guild Wars" as I can have available. I think in the end I will stay with Opera as I'm very happy with the features (my homepage has the weather and news :P) and the multi-tabs that I have become use to now and the speed isn't that noticable. This would be my second choice though if saving room for my game weren't so important to me. The word "glides" comes to mind for a way to describe the way this browser performs, lol it sort of "glides" through the internet it's not a bad browser at all, very nice.

well i am trying Safari as we speak so I will know in a little while wether it is a keeper. It is very strange, I have been more than happy with firefox up until now. But it takes forever to load the home page, and now it always says "server not found" so I have to try again and refresh a few times and then it comes in. It takes longer than it should to load Gardenweb too.(very importants. haha) So we shall see. I could not find a place to go to for 'help' on firefox, not to a live person or interactive help anyway. Maybe I am missing something? Well time to go 'Safari-ing' l. will keep you posted. later folks!

I talked to an online guy for my ISP. He said that one of the DNS servers had been giving problems lately so we set my computer up with a different one. AHHHH my beloved Firefox is back to the way it should be. Clean, fast and comfortable.
However you computer brains can keep chatting on this thread if you like. I will probably learn stuff along the way, just from reading it.

Can I say that I told you so about 4 postings back up the way? ":^) Kidding of course, and am really happy that you can report that "Your beloved Firefox is back the way it should be. Clean, fast and comfortable!".
If you have not already, you may want to turn on automatic updates to get the latest technology on the program and the extensions that you have downloaded, like Ad blocker plus and No Script etc.

My ISP has changed several times over the years, mostly for the better each time, not of my choosing but because the big fish keep gobbling up the smaller fish. I have had many occasions to speak with Tech help on the phone throughout all this and came to realize that there are some excellent ones and some that are far less than excellent. Some that really seem to care and some that seem like they could not care much less. I have had them lie consistently about their mail servers and then finally get someone that admits that most of the problems are on their end, after many tried to shift the blame back on to my computer or something that I was doing wrong when I knew that was not the case. I know how aggravating that can be and what a relief it is to get the problems solved.

May the new server serve you well.
Bill P.

Hello, to everyone here thinking they are having a bad day think of me. first my sound drivers went out for no reason, second, my video card crashed and burned, then i tried to playback a video file on my windows machine and it said they were no video playback devices found on my system,then my dvd drive and cdrw drive wouldn't play a disc because i couldn't be "read" then i rebooted the windows xp machine again and my log on password don't work (tried everything) so now i am doing the dreaded full system format on the c drive.this means i will lose everything!! all date is going to be lost,4 years worth of software,programs,music etc...it was a last resort and i will probaley be reloading software for the next 3 weeks,at least i was smart enough to dump a lot of my expensive software on my external usb hard drive but it will be a painstaking ordeal i am fed up with windows in general and am serious considering linux??? one problam after another with windows, i have had enough. ps: at least i have one working computer left, that is until this one crashes!!

Aww man, sorry about your news Jason. If you hold a funeral for your computer let me know and I will try my best to be there. Alternately, if you hold a target shoot with it I will try and be there for it too. OR you could host a target shoot with a photo of Bill Gates nailed to a tree..
All the best to you. If you lived closer I would bring you a casserole, like others do when there is a death in the family. I am glad you at least saved your more expensive hardware so all is not lost.

I guess I may be considered unconventional, unorthodox, rebellious, etc. but with MS webbrowsing tightly integrated into the operating system, I think I'd just rather stay with IE7 and Zone Alarm Pro. No popups, worms, viruses, downloading add-ons, etc--most is done automatically. I used Netscape years ago, was tired of the lack of integration with the e-mail part, went back to IE and stayed happy. When Netscape 7 (I think) came out, I loved the tabs feature, but found little things that didn't work, like scroll mouse problems, following OK buttons (mouse pointer automatically moves to the preferred button, like OK or Save, etc) etc. Then I realized the best thing for me was IE, Powertoys, TweakUI, WebAccessories, etc, and security in the form of ZAP. Any addons I have were only because the enhancements really worked well to make surfing more enjoyable.

Someone will always try to attack the "big guy" like with viruses & hacks, but I feel the best setup for me is IE & ZAP. With IE7, you get similar tabs features as Netscape/Mozilla 7 & up, a customizable Windows Live toolbar that would take the place of any google or yahoo toolbars you would have to download & install from other mfrs (Search, Favorites, Weather/current temp, Maps, Highlighter, Form Fill, Popup Blocker, etc) a Links toolbar that never worked in Netscape/Mozilla (and wasn't sortable), etc. All from 1 vendor, and with auto updating. Maybe when I see all the bigname computer mfrs installing an alternative & replacing IE, then I'd consider something else. Bloated websurfing is here to stay and will only get more bloated every year, regardless of which company's browser.

update: three (YES THREE) complete formats later and the thing seems to be stuck in some kind of loop

does your rifle have a good scope or do you prefer a handgun? Or perhaps a crossbow? (always wanted to try one of those)

Hi doof,
With Safari, is it possible to get a 'clean' homepage, without all the apple/mac propaganda?

Hello, i finally through in the white towel, i surrender to the almighty windows. i took the install cd out after the final failed attempt to format and rebooted the pc, guess what? it says no operating system was found, go figure...can i install linux in this state of chaos with a live bootable cd version?? will it over right the ntfs file system and work? any help will be a godsend to me.or should i just buy a new hardrive and put a fresh copy of linux on it?

Triple, I don't know; I've never used the Windows version of Safari. I have used it on Macs on other people's setups at work where Google (or even Kitler.com) was the startup homepage.

Personally, I prefer Firefox, but a lot of my preference comes from age and stubbornness. I suckled on the teat of Navigator as a wee babe. And I still have occasional stray cravings for Telnet and ASCII BBS's.

Jason, my heart goes out to you. I had a similar meltdown just one month ago. It's like finding yourself evicted with only a small box of clothes on the now-locked doorstep, and it turns out its not even your clothes.

Sometimes, if you add, remove, or change hardware from your system, the computer will decide that a different drive is now the C: or D: drive. That happened to me during the latest meltdown. You may have to remove one of your drives in order to re-install Windows, or change master-slave settings, which is too complicated to get into here. I would be very careful that you don't flub up and accidentally wipe the 225GB disk during the install process.

i tried another hard drive from the other computer that the motherboard failed on and tried to format that one and put windows on it but it says that it reconized the new partition but it is incompatable with the operating system i am trying to install over it!! in 5 years i have had 3 computers bite the dust, i have a computer demon looking over my shoulder i guess; my basement looks like a geek-squad graveyard, parts of computers are everywhere!! im taking dvd drives out of one and putting them in another,taking memory sticks out of one and swapping with another,tried it all and when i boot up all i get is " no operating system found" disk boot failure, this is just too much stress to handle, if a brand new hard drive don't work tomorrow i will be getting out the 20lb sledge hammer and i am not kidding... enough is enough and i am ready to cut my losses and start over.has anyone on here had so much bad luck as me as far as major computer problems and i mean MAJOR?

When you reformat, you need to first check the BIOS that the controllers are enabled, the drive is recognized, set the settings to LBA or Auto, reboot to the floppy/cd/emergency disk etc, (must be a bootable disk), and then reformat using format c: /s to copy the system files. When you make partitions, you must set the active partition. Some large drives need additional software installed to recognize large partitions. Also, some motherboard BIOSes don't recognize drives over a certain size.

Too complicated to talk you through it all...

Possibly this is another instance of where someone should have left well enough alone & never altered the original software. "Curiosity killed the cat" is a popular phrase.

What is your day job?

my day job is in landscaping, i am kinda on my own schedule,the drive was reconized in the award bios menu but only as a slave drive ,no matter how i switched the ide cables,jumper pins etc... nothing seems to make a difference it does not see a master primary drive that windows can be installed on!!it only see's the secondary slave which it does reconize,but right now it is not doing much except trying to become formatted to accept windows 2000 right now i have an older (3years)operational western digital drive i have set it to cable select and am now formatting it to try to put windows 2000 on it as a last resort. th saga continues,some of the worst luck i have every had with computers; i even said a prayer to the computer gods.

Possibly this is another instance of where someone should have left well enough alone & never altered the original software. "Curiosity killed the cat" is a popular phrase.

What is your day job?
* * *

Oooh, them's fightin' words.

You need to use fdisk and set the partition to Active to be bootable. Otherwise, not being bootable means it can't be the 1st drive, therefore slave.

ok, got a new hard drive enclosure that converts a regular ata drive to usb,put the drive in it, formatted it and i somehow went from a 120gig drive to an 8.5 gig drive , so it showed up as a drive letter and i actually was able to put windows on it!!, but it now has only 8.5 gigs;so now i need to ask my self do i want to format the only large drive i have left and lose all of about 225 gigs worth of data, format that one too and use that as storage and keep the now 8.5 gig western digital drive just to let windows run?, should i buy a brand new drive and set that as a slave drive and hope it will get reconized by bill gates, woops i meant windows! and actually work? at least i now have a working operating system with very limited space on it but hey, it is progress.anyone have any ideas as what they would do?? thanks in advance.

Jason,
How old is the machine?
Did you already destroy the XP drive that had the data on it?
It wasn't clear if that's the one you formatted or not.
If it's only a matter of getting into windows because you lost the password, that can be fixed.
Tom

Here you go:

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500 gigs, 139.99, and it's an external. I would recommend something else if I knew that you had SATA, but, hey, this is perfect for somebody having multiple computer problems because you can easily just hang it onto any system configuration.

Generally, I try NOT to put my important data on the same drive/partition as the operating system. I have lost important files too many times that way. A small OS partition is just fine as long as you have space for maintenance and software upgrades. It can even speed things up.

Here is a link that might be useful: Newegg sale

Jason, Pull everything out, forget slaves & external drives.
Unplug all USB devices except mouse and keyboard.
Just start with ONE master drive. Work with that drive. Install your OS, then add drives once it's configured right.
You're over-thinking.
I never partition drives. It adds one more element to configure and opens the door to disaster. Keep things simple and you minimize your headaches.
Tom

hello, the machine is only 3 years old,yes i did destroy all the data on it after i formatted.i still have the larger drive but it won't read it. last night a neighbor gave me a windows 2000 disc and i formatted the drive again and it worked;it saw the full capacity of the drive and is ready to use, however when i try to bring the second drive with 225 + gigs of data on it it will not see it no matter how i switch things around bios won't read it, so i took it out, the drive i have working is set to master and is the only drive in the pc but bios says it is a secondary slave drive but it is on the primary ide channel and set to master!!everything in bios is set to auto detect drives,but as soon as i connect the other drive as a slave drive and reboot, the computer freezes and gets stuck on the post screen and hangs.funny thing is when i take that drive and put it in the hard drive enclosure that converts regular drives to use with usb and plug it into the computer i am on right now and reboot, windows comes up and says : found new hardware,mass storage usb device,your hardware is installed and ready to use,it even gives me a new drive letter,shows the drive as a western digital drive but... when i click on the drive letter it says please insert a disk into drive j....hmmm

Jason,
1:
You're absolutely sure the main drive is attached to IDE1?
There is a little (1) next to channel one (primary) and a (2) next to secondary channel on the motherboard.
I know this sounds simple, but clearly, the BIOS is seeing it on the secondary channel.
Try disabling the secondary channel in the BIOS.

2:
Flash the BIOS.
Update the BIOS from the manufacturers web site, they have instructions.

3:
The external drive enclosure may not be able to read large drives. This may be the trouble since older ones could not.

4:
The trouble may also be Win2000. Update to SP3.

5:
Right click on "My computer" on the desktop,
Left click on "manage"
In there, go to drive management. Check that the computer is addressing it correctly.

Tom

yes, the drive is on the primary ide channel (1) ide channel 2 is used for my 2 dvd rw drives, i have not flashed the bios yet,this scares me,the external drive enclosure is a mad dog mega vault from radio shack (just bought it) good for any hardrive to 400 gigs and is usb 2.0 i have the latest service pack for windows 2000. the pc will not let me connect another drive to it. i took the drive and put it in the usb enclosure,ran a western digital data lifeguard disc,did a quick format on it and now i have a new drive letter with a storage capacity of 32gigs, it used to be 120 gigs!! what happened. maybe now i can take the drive out of the usb enclosure and put it back into the computer? or should i connect both drives correctly and put them on ide channel 2? then the dvd burner drives would be on ide channel 1, this is worth a try,if this don't work i still have 3 other drives i salvaged from my other dead computers they range from 60-80 gigs.

Jason,
This is turning into a computer tech discussion, not Gardening.
Come on over to
http://www.tech-forums.net/pc/
Lots of discussion and help there. I'm positive we can solve this.
Tom

Hello, thanks for all who gave me advice on my computer issues, i finally got both drives on line; i took the jumber pin completely out of the second seagate drive, left it out, booted up, went to device mahager and it saw the drive.then i went into bios and auto detected the drive and then bios saw it, then i booted back up, went into control panel-administrative tools-disk management and proceeded to format the drive!!! thanks all who helped..........Jason