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aliris19

Venting 101

15 years ago

I post herewith a summary of my understanding regarding the issues of buying ventilating equipment so far. Please if I have something wrong here, please, please chirp up and correct me. While this may seem really obvious to some, it hasn't been to me and I post it on the off-chance that another similarly blowing-challenged down the line, will find it helpful.


You know something? This hood-ventilation thing really isn't that hard. It shouldn't be, and it isn't!

I offer here my take on it:

When you cook on the stove, you produce heat and fumes and other volatiles. To mitigate smell and coating of one's kitchens with those volatiles, you might want to suck away all that gunk. Suck it up and blow it outside, either through a wall or the roof.

That's it, it's that simple.

Draw it in, suck it up, blow it out. Those are the parts of the system.

You can obtain those parts á la carte, or as a package deal. In the end you need to have:

1. A hood to contain the capturing apparatus, or "liner" (aka "insert"). This can be stand-alone metal, under-cabinet metal or in-cabinet (i.e., wooden) or some combination of this - point is, this is the housing of the device that receives what is sucked. One's selection at this point is mostly aesthetic, though encasing the sucking apparatus in wood can mitigate noise. Recessing the trapping apparatus within the hood assists the job of trapping. The bigger the hood - width and depth - the more assistance provided in trapping. Width past that of the stovetop is desirable though depth begins to impinge on tall cooks' heads.

2. Trapping apparatus. There are various styles. This apparatus filters the gunk and captures it; it is necessary to remove (clean) what gets captured. There are metal mesh apparatus that do this capturing and metal baffles and maybe some other options. Issues here are ease of cleaning, appearance and noise. Angling of baffles might assist capture and cleaning. As will recessing the liner within the hood. Ease of accessing filters and removing and cleaning them are at issue.

3. Sucking apparatus. This is a motor. Its location can be attached to the liner, placed inside ("inline" along) the ductwork that extends from the hood to the outside (usually in an attic), or outside either on the roof or against the side of your house, wherever your duct exits the house. The further from the cook this blower lives, the quieter is life (for the cook). Buying the blower attached to the liner and/or hood lessens the number of choices to make thereby simplifying life. Choosing a more remote blower makes life quieter, but it is a separate purchase (potentially increasing the cost of the system). If the blower is distant from the hood, it should be stronger in order to accomplish the same clearage of gunk. Gunk clearance by the motor is measured in "cfm"s (cubic feet per minute). Noise is metered subjectively in terms of nuisance, via the "sone". 1 sone is the nuisance level, if you will, of a quiet refrigerator in a quiet kitchen - obviously a hugely subjective non-measure. YMMV. Stronger setups may attach two blowers to the hood liner. Total cfm is still the measure. I've never seen talk of motor manufacturer or quality, oddly enough.

4. Ductwork. This will bring the sucked air from over the cooktop to the outside. It can be hidden or decoratively visible or a combination thereof. If you have an installer involved, they may purchase this part of the ensemble; it's the least of your worries except to consider whether you wish to have any visible or not. But ductwork that's meant to be pretty will possibly come as part of the hood ensemble. Or not -- something to check on.

5. Silencer. If the blower you buy is remote from the liner, either inline or external, an inline silencer can mitigate noise further. The equipment is massive and relatively cheap for the pain it diminishes.

Noise considerations. These are affected mostly by such things as the configuration of (i.e., number and shape of the angles in) the ductwork, diameter of the ducts used, material of the hood, machinery of the blower, presence of a silencer, distance of blower from hearer, type and perhaps configuration of filters, strength of blower, manufacturer of blower. Since there are so many push-me-pull-you parameters, it is hard to assert that noise is best mitigated at any one point in the system; things depend....

Confusion. I find this mostly to do with the fact that the system has many parts, and you can buy pieces of it separately and also combined. The permutations are many (hood with insert, hood+insert with or without blower, insert with or without blower etc) so it becomes very hard to compare or evaluate proposed purchases. Not to mention price-shop. Hard to know what you're responsible for buying, but you must wind up with 1-4 above.

Someone's Dad was rather wise to note that he was too poor to buy cheaply. Is this true in the case of ventilation systems? The quality of material and construction, as well as location of construction, is debated. Lower gauge steel is heavier duty (16 or 18 is preferred); higher quality is measured as "304" ("430" is of lesser grade) stainless steel (ss). Hood seams trap gunk so are harder to clean; seamless hoods are very expensive. Proportions matter aesthetically since the system is so prominent.

Comments (14)

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Make up air has to be addressed as a system operation and safety issue.
    In areas with extended periods of cold winter weather suitable energy saving heat exchangers for intake/exhaust air may need to be considered.

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    laat,

    Very true but there is no system that I know of that can do heat exchange from outside replacement air that is then being vented out the chimney.

    A regular heat exchanger is just meant to exchange normal household air either on its own or via HVAC system. This does not do anything for makeup air. Its a balanced in and out or existing air.

    The heat exchanger principal is needed but for the higher power hoods, you need intakes that match the output. Having a variable sped blower also complicates this as well, since the amount of makeup air is determined then by the speed set on the blower. I have been looking into ways to solve this issue for when I do this remodel.

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    OK:

    6. Make-up air. When you suck large enough volumes out of your house, if the house is closed sufficiently that there is no way to replace air that is being withdrawn, the fan will slow down - among other problems. I'm not sure how this is addressed; one-way valves somewhere, in basements, chimneys, etc. In cold climates the coldness of that air intake is an issue. In some municipalities code has something to say about this. Redressing the air imbalance can be very expensive.

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    the lack of makeup air can cause worse problems than slowing down the fan - it can cause your furnace to backdraft.

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Having too much suckage and not enough make-up air can cause any flame to backdraft, including a gas dryer, water heater, stove or fireplace, in addition to the furnace Weissman mentioned. This not only interferes with operation, but can lead to unburned gas and effluent entering the living areas. If the appliance/fireplace isn't venting correctly because of the superior pull of the range hood, there can also be carbon monoxide issues (though I haven't heard of anyone actually getting sick from it it's not something to take lightly). In the Southeast they are concerned with MUA being cooled and dehumidified, as opposed to being heated.

    There were discussions of motors, fans, the Vent-a-hood system, and other mechanical stuff when I was shopping. A Google search might turn up those threads.

    Good summary.

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    About 5. Noise.

    A motor next to your head is louder than a motor farther away. Noise (power) diminishes the farther away the source of noise is. The blower motors they put into hoods are called "internal" (dumb name but it applies to them selling you a box with a blower inside). Go to an in-line blower or external and you get a lot less noise than an "internal" blower. End of story. You could also get fancy with specifying that an in-line blower should be at least such and such a distance, but I don't think it's needed.


    About 1.

    " A hood to contain the capturing apparatus, or "liner" (aka "insert") .... filter "

    Other terms have seen: canopy capture volume sink

    I find it must do more than hold the filter. It is a part of the "trapping" function. It stops the rising air from going higher. Or, it should do that. I'll agree that most don't do that.

    hth

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Thanks for the updates. Bummer about the MUA (Make Up Air). Seems these ranges have gotten too fancy for safety, potentially.

    In figuring needed cfms note that everyone seems to use max *potential* btus from the range, whereas in reality, it's hard to envision actually using, say, 6 burners at 23K each all at once. YMMV and it may pay to calculate a more realistic, personal max btu output. Though note that providing more cfms than strictly necessary has its advantages.

    Likewise in determining how much extra capture area past the dimensions of your stovetop, your personal requirements will depend on the size of your pans (and cooking style). As davidrol notes, accounting for that additional capture-function may be more expensive in acreage, but (potentially) cheaper in cfms.

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I read an article a while back, don't have the reference, that said that homeowners were being oversold CFMs by hood manufacturers and salespeople and that for MOST home applications, 600 CFMs were more than adequate, particularly since people rarely run all their burners on max. Clearly if you have a grill, that's a different story. In most locales, 600 CFMs doesn't require makeup air but some northern states require it for anything over 300 CFMs.

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    How do you determine (and/or prove to an inspector) your make-up air situation? I am presuming with an old house there's leakage everywhere, but my presumption that this is enough may be wrong: how do I know? I presume there is some metric short of popped eardrums...

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    You don't have to prove anything to an inspector other than the specs for your hood (and possibly your range). Code will usually say you need makeup air with more than xxx CFMs so if your hood is xxx CFMs or less you're fine - otherwise you will need a make-up air system - house leakage doesn't count.

    Code never used to require hoods at all but now some locales are requiring you to have as many CFMs as the manufacturer of the range recommends.

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    "If the blower is distant from the hood, it should be stronger in order to accomplish the same clearage of gunk."

    For a given blower design, the total pressure loss determines the reduction of of flow. It doesn't matter whether it is behind or in front of the fan. There is the fact that one can generate more pressure (with an air compressor, say) than one can suck vacuum, as there is only so much vacuum to suck, but this is not a consideration when the pressure losses are in the 0.1 inch of water regime as in the case of a kitchen hood.

    Also, the ducting may not be the largest source of pressure loss. The baffles or mesh filter is one significant source, lack of make-up air another, and hood to duct transition a third.

    kas

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    My inspector didn't care a rap about the cfm. The gas shutoff, yes. They check that on each and every inspection. They're much more strict about make-up air where it's impractical to open a window.

  • 15 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    check. makes sense.... thanks plllog. I'm writing that worry off and concentrating on the other 4,386 on the list then.

    Like, how to mitigate noise on the roof. Will the attic roof help? Can I build a drywalled box around the vent pipe section that houses the blower? Can I encase it in a vacuum ;) -- just kidding, Kas ....

    but if it's really +/- 80dB or +/- 15 sones, that's seriously noisy. I bet it will scare the rodents from the attic. I'm worried the bees may take up residence elsewhere though...

    Here is a link that might be useful: Fantech specs