Thanks for the good news, Shax. Isn't it amazing that no one has observed this earlier?

Good news? not if you work for the typical pesticide industry ;o)

I suspect it would help the lumber industry... imagine being able to advertise guaranteed termite-resistant lumber for residential use! Wonder if are there any reports/studies of humans being affected or allergic?

Meldy,
yes, that was a question that occurred to me...still don't know if this natural repellent is dangerous to humans!

Meldy and saxholme are right to question the presumption that because "It is natural and organic, it must be safe".

As an ex scientist (Chemistry), I would like to draw attention to a few of many, very dangerous natural substances:
Nicotine (now banned as an insecticide in Australia), Strychnine, Morphine, cancer causing Aflatoxins (mould on nuts etc), cancer causing Indole carboline in ("Healthy") Cabbage, Broccoli, Brussel sprouts, etc. Notwithstanding, liver rotting natural products in Basil and Parsley.

At least man made insecticides have to go through a rigorous testing process before being marketed. Unlike the promotion of "Natural Products" which are presumed by default to be safe and usually supported by flimsy anecdotal evidence.

Mike

I agree with George W, but from an environmental point of view, anything created biologically can be broken down biologically and shouldn't be contaminating soil and water for eons. (Most farms are contaminated with arsenic from the 50's.) The down side of this is that the tree extract may have a much shorter effective life than the currently used chemicals.

Ziggy

It would be something major if the "Natural Termite Terminator" was in fact stable over the life of a house. Then we would have a replacement for banned Dieldrin (which really worked).

Perhaps an even more exciting possibility is that this "Terminator" works by a entirely different mechanism to other current insecticides. If so, this mechanism could lead to a new generation of insecticides active against not only termites but other insects.

This is hypothetical and works on a presumption that the "Natural Terminator" is in fact "Safe".

Referring to Ziggys' comments: Since Dieldrin was banned in Queensland, Australia, we no longer have truly effective, long term protection against termites. The standard protection under house foundations is restricted to a mesh which I am informed has only a limited efficacy. That's about it! Even susceptable timbers are now being treated with synthetic pyrethrinoids ("Fly Sprays") which only have a limited life span.

Regards: Mike

Sorry to ask a dumb question, Mike - if Dieldrin is banned and mesh is apparently ineffective, why aren't concrete and/or cinderblock piers/foundations required? Why bother with a short-term solution (synthetic pyrethrinoids) for something that should be considered long-term [foundations]? USA termites chomp wood/organic products but not concrete; are Aussie termites different?

Meldy, I'm really not a "Termiteologist", however I will endeavour to reply.

I don't know whether Aussie termites are different ... after all, they do come from "Down Under"... JOKE!

Even if a house is built with strip footings or a floating concrete slab, those pesky, industrious termites will either get through the slab via service conduits ... even those wrapped in mesh, or they will scale the exterior of the foundations to get at the timber (cellulose) goodies inside the house. This includes kitchen fittings, wallpaper (not popular here in tropical Queensland)and even the outer covering on Dry Wall.

The pyrethrinoids (usually permethrin) are meant to protect the timber above ground and frankly they do not work as well as the "Nasty" copper chromium arsenate that they replaced.

You tell me, does it sound like our down under, "Edmund Hilliary" termites are any different to GI Joe termites?

Regards: Mike

Hi, Mike - our termites sound like they came from the same tunnel! I live in an area noted for potential termite infestations, which is probably why it puzzles me that anyone living in a termite-prone area would knowingly build with slab or wood foundations. Around here, it's been SOP for so long that I can't remember *when* it became common practice to use concrete, stone, brick, and/or cinderblock foundations - continuing up usually 18" above ground level. Actually, I've noticed that even houses built a hundred or more years ago used stone and mortar or solid-brick foundations; only the very cheapest (unknowledgeable?) sheds had wood anywhere close to ground level - and it surprised no one to have them either rotted or termite-eaten within a decade or so. Holes for pipes and service conduits are 'grouted' [sealed] with a concrete mortar -- I don't think I've heard of anyone bothering with any sort of mesh. Which doesn't mean much, since I'm not active in the building business. Of course, contruction practices could vary enormously farther west or north, but I don't think termites are quite the same problem in those directions of the USA.

I've been trying to track down confirmation of a memory that builders need only a foot of concrete above ground-level to prevent termites from climbing, but all I can find [so far] is the consistent recommendation of 8" concrete and a "termite cap" which is a metal barrier laid across cinderblock or hollow-brick foundations to prevent the bugs from climbing upwards. No question the termites will eat everything you list, and more, but they have to have access first.

So, my question remains as to wondering why anyone would mess around with mesh or short-term/ineffective deterrents when there are known methods of building termite-preventive foundations. Sheds? Decks? Fences? Well, I've seen enough wood fences around here go to pieces due to lack of a concrete footing to consider that a product (I like the Terminator name :) such a the false-sandalwood extract would have a definite use in the various wood-construction business.

Hi Meldy

Because land is relatively cheap in Australia (outside the cities) and because a lot of us (creaky 67 years old me included) have an aversion to stairs, low set homes are commonly constructed. In fact I'm hoping to build one soon on a 2 acre block. I am advised by builders that termites can sneak through slabs on strip footings easiers than on a floating concrete slab. The floating slab is also cheaper ... ergo my choice.

However its from there up that termites rear their ugly heads. Aussies generally like huge lattices of timber in their house construction ... I don't ... I'm going for concrete blocks with the only structural wood in the roof.

What is called "Cypress Pine" is supposedly unattractive to termites but the builders like working with "Treated" softwoods.

Does anyone know if Flase Sandalwood would be a viable structural wood?

The "Leaks" around conduits passing through slabs are just sloppy workmanship by the builders, but ("Sh")it happens!

Just an anecdote ... A couple of locals renovating a largish low set house house, really tackled the termites. They built whatever internal fittings they could, out of concrete ... concrete tables, kitchen benches, bedside cupboards, etc.

Regards : Mike

P.S. "SOP" is that sodium orthophenyphenate, or the procedure used for impregnating wood with a pyrethrinoid dissolved in gasoline?

Mike, you haven't seen many more years than I have, but I've spent quite a few on crutches due to a knee problem -- I understand about wanting to avoid steps. I wonder if a way for you to have slab-without-termites would be to put the slab onto a 1/2 meter base of crushed gravel that also extended at least a meter ground-level outwards from the exterior wall. A similar base has been used by those constructing straw-bale houses (I think one was in Nova Scotia, but I'm not positive; maybe Newfoundland, I've read of several -usually in northern locales), especially when a basement was wanted or contruction involved 2+ storeys on a slope. They were doing it for the superb drainage, but - and I could be wrong - it seems to me that using pressed rock in combo with a sand-fill would also deter the termites. BTW, if you haven't started construction, I'd suggest googling for straw-bale (just for the enlightment and fun of it) and for monolithic -- which might be a viable alternative structure, for you to consider.

Are terrestrial termites the only problem in Australia? Here in Southern California colonization of structures by terrestrials is relatively uncommon; the big problem around here is drywood termites which are far more troublesome as far as prevention goes. Additionally, it's likely only a matter of time before formosa termites get a foothold in Australia (there have been two close calls so far).

Ryan

SoCal23

Remember, I am not a termiteologist!

The termites listed as pests in Australia include species of:
Coptotermes ... but not formosanus (Japanese termite)
Heterotermes.
Nasutitermes
Schedorrhinotermes.
Mastrotermes darwinii ... Giant northern termite (tropics)

Does anyone know whether False Sandalwood is any good as a building timber?

Regards: Mike

See the following googled link:

http://www.timber.org.au/resources/Tech%20Report%203%2072dpi.pdf

I'm sure you have already completed internet searches; but just in case:

The link to my google search follows.

Here is a link that might be useful: Eremophilla mitchelli + building timber

"The breakthrough could revolutionise the building
> and pest control
> industries and potentially save millions of dollars
> spent protecting homes
> from termites, Assoc Prof Spooner-Hart said."

First off, I think this is an excellent discovery, and I hope it is found to be effective long term as a substitute for the use of chemical pesticides currently used for termites. My only problem with the above statement is premise that it will potentially save millions of dollars. My guess is that it will be more expensive than our current chemicals, and will sell in a niche market for those of us willing to pay more for organic treatments.

Mrs H

Mrs H
Re: [quote]First off, I think this is an excellent discovery, and I hope it is found to be effective long term as a substitute for the use of chemical pesticides currently used for termites.[/quote]

Please look at my posting of Nov 18, 05. [quote]the presumption that because "It is natural and organic, it must be safe".

As an ex scientist (Chemistry), I would like to draw attention to a few of many, very dangerous natural substances:[/quote]

Whether you like it or not, whatever is active as an insecticide in False Sandalwood has a chemical structure. Therefore it could be made synthetically, even improved upon. Natural ("Organic") chemicals all obey the laws of chemistry.

Plants are loaded with lots of natural toxins often as a defence against insect attack or to ward off grazing animals. In the jungles of the Amazon, animals living off leaves and tree bark, have to swallow copious amounts of clay each day as an antidote to the natural poisons in the plants.

Is there this omnipresent, religiously driven, presumption that because something is natural, God created it ... Therefore it must not be harmful? ... Getting struck by ("Natural") lightning! or devasted by a ("Natural") Tsunami! Have you ever made contact with ("Organic") Poison Ivy or Stinging Nettles?

Regards: Mike