And maybe 'Spoon' and 'Red Current' are just a 'fancy' hybrids of the 'common' Wild Everglades one?

****

The one you call Wild Everglades was made popular by someone who was/is selling seeds online for an outrageous price.

It's a currant tomato, S.pimpinellifolium as is what you know as Red Currant.

Spoon was the clever name that Parks used years ago when they had a picture showing the timy fruits sitting in a spoon and that's where that red currant got it's name.

Not all wild species IDed as currant tomatoes taste the same so it's a matter of you finding one that you like.

I've grown quite a few and I think the best one is Sara's Galapagos as far as taste goes, but it probably isn't a pure currant, rather, according to Dr. Chatelet at the Rick Center at UC Davis it's probably and interspecies genetically stable cross.

So Wild Everglades was named by someone who sells it online for an inflated price IMO and it's a currant, as is Spoon, as are, obviously, those named Red Currant.

Does that help?

Carolyn, who wonders if it isn't a bit late, or perhaps a bit too early to be sowing seed in your zone 10 area as compared with what my zone 10 friends are doing. And yes, almost all tomato species varieties seem to do well in adverse conditions but of the about 12-13 known species other than our garden tomato S, lycopersicon, only two, the currant tomato, S pimpinellifolium and S. cheesmanii are edible and I don't have much positive to say about the latter and it's not widely grown . ( smile)

Try using Byron's Tea for starting your seeds that are having trouble sprouting. link below.

George

Here is a link that might be useful: Byron's World Famous Tea Recipe For Starting Seeds

I have gotten no germination from new fresh seed of the Wild Everglades tomato

*****

Your saved seed?

If it's fresh processed seed there shouldn't be a problem, as you know.

George has suggested the cold tea method but just soaking seeds overnight in plain water does the same thing, making sure you've stirred the seeds and that all have sunk.

If they don't sink then the seeds are not mature and not viable.

You can also wrap some seeds in a wet paper towel and stick it in a baggie and keep it at around 70-80 F and if no germination then the seeds are no good IMO.

Carolyn

Last year, I bought some Florida Wild Everglades tomato seeds from the fellow who was selling them online for the alleged "outrageous" price.

The envelope they came in included seeds for a very hot pepper that also was an interesting type. He didn't charge me any shipping and handling, so four or 5 bucks for two envelopes of seeds seems in line with ordering from Tomato Growers Supply or some other "family-owned" outfit.

The vines that grew from the Florida Wild Everglades seeds had cerasiform leaves. The fruit were small, tart and sweet. Kids loved them. They grow like wild. I had no trouble germinating the original or saved seeds.

Last year, I bought some Florida Wild Everglades tomato seeds from the fellow who was selling them online for the alleged "outrageous" price.

*****

He's still selling them for what I consider an outrageous price and I linked to his website below. I don't think that $8/pack of 15-20 seeds is reasonable, I really don't.

(The envelope they came in included seeds for a very hot pepper that also was an interesting type. He didn't charge me any shipping and handling, so four or 5 bucks for two envelopes of seeds seems in line with ordering from Tomato Growers Supply or some other "family-owned" outfit.)

Bill, so you got a bargain, that's all I can say. LOL Had you paid ***the price he asks for online*** that would have been $8 alone without shipping/handling, so it isn't in line with ANY seed source I know for tomatoes, be it family-owned, large capitalized, organic, non-organic or whatever kind of place.

How did you manage to not pay the price he asks? Just curious.

Carolyn

Here is a link that might be useful: Price for Wild Everglades Seeds

Well, Carolyn, apparently the dude has raised his price! Last year it was 4.95, if I remember correctly.

You will note, however, that his new 8-dollar price includes postage and handling. And places like Parks Seed, and others, are charging upward of 6.95 P&H for small orders.

My first message was posted mainly to inform regarding cerasiform leaf shape, in case that would help identify or categorize the tomato with regard to other "wild" types.

I saved thousands of seeds from this little monster ... put a quart or so of the fruit in a blender and then fermented the mash ... and guess I could make a small fortune selling them for half price!

If I had listed them in SSE Yearbook for 2009, I could've made a couple of bucks that way, maybe. But I didn't list anything for 2009. Haven't even paid my 2009 dues yet, in fact.

Oh hell, anybody want some of these dumb seeds, email me at tomatohead48@hotmail.com

As an interesting aside, the vines and fruit are very very similar to one particular grow-out of Sungold that showed up this year and also is cerasiform, aggressive, with small, sweet/tart, red, seedy fruit. Hmmmmmm.

Bill

As an interesting aside, the vines and fruit are very very similar to one particular grow-out of Sungold that showed up this year and also is cerasiform, aggressive, with small, sweet/tart, red, seedy fruit. Hmmmmmm

****

Makes sense to me since S.pimpinellifolium is used in breeding all varieties with the flat truss trait.

Wait a minute here. Are you saying that's what you got from purchased F1 seeds?

About the price of the Wild one. Last time I looked which was when someone asked a similar question a few years ago they weren't $8/pack but something more like $5.95 and I don't recall that shipping and handling was included.

I still think $6 bucks for 15-20 seeds is unreasonable given that there's plenty of red currants to be had elsewhere.( smile)

Whatever.

There's lots of listings for Texas Wild and similar in the species section of the Yearbook and I don't see the Everglades one as being any different since the Spanish disseminated seeds for S. pimpinellifolium all across the gulf coast into FL. There's even a TX Wild yellow, which doesn't surprise me.

I've grown several red currants and will still stick with Sara's Galapagos as having the best taste, but addmitedly it probably isn't a true current, according to Dr. Chatelet, but it looks, walks and talks like one so that's good enough for me.

Talk about seeds.....I know what you mean when you say you get slews of seeds b'c I get the same with Sara's. LOL

Carolyn, watching the snow come down and fingers crossed we don't get a power outage b'c it's supposed to turn to ice/sleet and high winds before turning back to snow tonight. Warnings are out. I think I'll go pack some seeds for my seed offer b'c that ususally calms me down. LOL

Carolyn....is this 'Saras Galalopagos' for sale someplace? I bought my 'Wild Everglades' on EBay for only $3.50 for 20 seeds. Not expenisve in my mind. They are still for sale there at that price now! Where are you guys looking? As far as Spoon goes. If they are all basically the same tomato. Will they all hold up in south Fla. summer heat and produce the tiny tomatos all year?
I think I have Sweet Million mixed up with Spoon. Because the ones I remember growing a small cherry type tomato in long sprays and they were VERY sweet...thus they must have been Sweet Million. But it doesnt hold up during the summer here, that I know.
So...if they are all the same plant. I am set. The Red Current that I thought I had not planted...I did..and I have like 15 plants of it! I forgot I had planted some of all my small tomato seeds. I tend to forget when i plant a bunch of seeds like this,along with Mirco Tom. Micro tom is growing the fastest and is the biggest so far! I planted all of them now to get some of the tiny tomatos for teh winter and spring and summer. I just forgot i did it! They all came up except the Wild Everglades nes. So far. BUT if the Red Current is the same tomato, I am set. I assume this also goes for 'Matts Wild Cherry' also? It is the same plant under a different name?
I have seen the Red Current in a tomato catalog listed as.
a 'Lycospericom Pimpinfolium', is that the same as the name you used in your post? Just spelled slightly different? So...how do i find this Sues Galapagos ones? Some one on here sell them??

I have seen the Red Current in a tomato catalog listed as.
a 'Lycospericom Pimpinfolium', is that the same as the name you used in your post? Just spelled slightly different? So...how do i find this Sues Galapagos ones? Some one on here sell them??

****

First, the genus name was changed from Lycopersicon to Solanum several years ago so it should be known as S.pimpinellifolium.

Second, Sara's Galapagos is sold at SandhillPreservation. com but note when they start selling seeds which is clearly stated at their website. A fine place.

Third no one here at GW in the tomato seed exchange, link at the top of the page just above and to the right of the first thread, or here in the Discussion section, is allowed to sell seeds b'c it's against the guidelines of GW.

The answers to many of your questions I gave in detail in the new thread that you started about Mexico Midget.

Carolyn

Hey Carolyn,

While we're on the subject of what will grow through the summer Florida heat, I'm in zone 10A right off Tampa Bay. I never get frost but do contend with considerable humidity. Given your knowledge and experience can you recommend some varieties that will set with decent yields and taste through our summer heat and humidity? Other than these baby currants I just have not found anything with any taste yet, but my experience is limited.

Tom

Tom, consult IFAS at University of Florida, Bradenton. They will be able to guide you toward varieties that will tolerate your growing conditions.

If you are not satisfied with their suggestions of modern hybrid varieties, you might ask them to suggest some older, open pollinated varieties that were developed for the same growing conditions ... like the Homestead series.

I also understand Neptune is a more recent open pollinated that is recommended for the tropics, sub-tropics, Florida and Hawaii. And there are probably other open pollinated, tasty varieties that your local agricultural extension agent or the local Master Gardeners group can suggest.

Tom, You can do as Hoosier suggests but I can tell you that I have a good friend who lives in Miami and is an experienced tomato grower and he can grow anything he wants to, that is ANY variety he wants to and they perform well.
I know b/c from time to time he sends me a box of tomatoes, especially in my winter, like right now or a bit later, so that I can take a break from the store bought awful ones.

The key is timing.

You should think about growing two crops each year and not worrying about the high heat and humidity of summer.

Start your seeds so that you can plant out a Spring crop around the First of March or so, and those should be the long season and mid-season type varieties.

They'll have plenty of time to mature before the high heat hits.

Then for the Fall crop plant seeds so you can set out around early to mid September or a bit later and that works.

This friend of mine posts elsewhere and he's been showing pictures of his tomatoes now and showed one of a ripe German Red Strawberry this past week and I just sat here and drooled. LOL

I wasn't aware of the two crop/year timimg until LInda Sapp who owns Tomato Growers Supply based in Fort Myers, FL told me about that way back in about the early 90's and I find that many folks in zones 9 and 10 can do that successfully. BTW, Tomato Growers (TGS) is also a great place to buy seeds and they carry quite a few Florida bred varieties by the U of Florida.

So, something for you to perhaps consider.

Carolyn

Thanks HC and Carolyn,

I am growing two seasons and happy with things for the most part, it's just hard to get a tasty mater to produce here in July and August, other than these baby currants. Some of the folks at the Florida forum have stated good success with Black Cherry, Yellow Pear and Dr. Carolyn during our summer heat so I'll be trying those this spring. I've tried the UF heat setting maters and while they did grow they had about as much taste as a store bought mater, so why bother.

success with Black Cherry, Yellow Pear and Dr. Carolyn

*****

Cherries are closest, genetically, to the wild form so it makes sense that those plus the currants are more able to withstand harsher conditions than others.

You'll note that Matt's Wild Cherry is called a cerasiforme at Johnny's Selected Seeds. That's b'c it doesn't have a stigma that protrudes and that's a concern for some folks who grow currant types.

But......not all currants have what are called exerted stigmas so it's a dicey situation. There are those who won't grow currants anywhere's near their other varieties and even I grow mine on the other side of the house, but not knowing if X pollination can occur b/c I don't know if what I grow does have an exerted stigma I do the best I can.

Our typical garden varieties, with few exceptions, have stigmas that do not exert. It was part of the evolution process of tomatoes when they went from almost ALL insect pollinated blossoms ( exerted stigmas) to retracted stigmas and self pollenization most of the time.

Carolyn

Thanks Doc,

Your knowledge makes all the difference in the world, and we're so much better for it ;-)