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honda03_gw

ongoing leaky windows

18 years ago

two issues

we are building a new house,mostly by ourselves but we hired a licensed carpenter to install the windows,install exterior board insulation,tyvek and install siding,during heavy winds and rain,three windows leak at the top,it appears the water is getting under the exterior board insulation some place and running down the osb and coming in the tops of the windows,i dont think the actual windows are leaking the siding guys tyveked all the window openings before installing the windows to the wall insulation,most of the windows are caulked externally,but the where the gable ends meet the soffit isnt,there are two window flashings installed one above the window and one above the window trim,

the other issue is that the inside lower corners on the window framing is wet,is this a "sweating" issue,it appears that the only way water can get here is if the actuall window was leaking,

any ideas on either of these issues? come spring we intend to do a very thorough job of caulking all the windows,trim,soffits etc,but we are a little put out that the water is somehow getting past the tyvek and onto the osb sheathing

Comments (17)

  • 18 years ago

    Can't even guess why a window is leaking without knowing the wall system, the window type, model and brand, the flashing type, etc. and having some photos of the installation. There are too many construction variables to even make useful assumptions.

    One thing I can tell you for sure is that caulking will not be part of a permanent solution.

  • 18 years ago

    we have the atlantic proffessional series of window,which are a slider type window,the flashing is aluminum,"z" shaped,the walls are 2x6 with 7/16 osb sheathing,1 1/2 truefoam styrofoam,(2x8 shiplap),the blue stuff,i dont know how to get pictures to you,the issue i believe is that the builder sealed everything,ie windows to the board insulation but the water is getting behind the insulation somehow

  • 18 years ago

    You are still making it difficult for anyone to help you. When you describe a construction material you need to use its real name, and the manufacturer's name, not what a builder might call it.

    Is the Atlantic Professional Series the name of a company? Is it from Canada? Is it an all- vinyl window? Is it the Atlantic series vinyl window made by Jeld-Wen? Is it installed with a flange? So you know who makes it?

    The window flashing is probably a self-adhering flexible material like StraightFlash, EZ-Seal or Vycor, etc. Do you know what was used?

    Dow doesn't make a Styrofoam product called Truefoam and all Dow Styrofoam sheathing is made with tongue and groove edges. Do you know who makes the insulation?

    Were the insulation panels applied vertically? Were the joints taped? Were horizontal joints flashed with Z-flashing?

    Guessing is a waste of time.

  • 18 years ago

    To post a photo:

    go to http://tinypic.com (it's free and no sign up is required)

    select "browse" and go find your jpg, png, gif, or tif photo file and select it (it will be automatically downsized to 250K)

    select the "upload" button

    Click once on the "HTML for websites" window (it is automatically copied) then paste it into the text part of your message.

    Now preview your message. If you can see the photo, submit the message.

    If you are unsure of yourself try all of this first at the test forum which is linked at the bottom of the main forum page. You might have to play with the dimensions of the original photo to keep the downloaded version from being too large since that sometimes stretches the text of all messages to the right (possibly off most screens)

    It is also possible to copy the contents of the URL window and to then paste it into the "Optional Link URL" box. You must also type a description in the "Name of the Link" box.

  • 18 years ago

    PROPER window flashing seems to be what is lacking.
    As MA says....not knowing the products used..or the
    type of window..metal, vinyl, FG, or wood...is also
    missing in your post.
    Do you have pictures of the windows as they went in?
    Can you provide window details?

    Caulking is not the long term answer, it MAY work for
    a while...but will need to be reapplied often & won't
    keep the water out of the walls as would properly installed
    window flashing.

    All too often housewraps cover up the lack of proper flashing methods.
    If you google Grace Vycor they have an excellent video
    of the correct way to flash windows & doors.

    Better you get it right now. This is the easiest access
    to these areas that you will have, and crew is on site.
    Don't settle for a bandaid fix, get it done correctly now
    or deal with these issues for as long as you are in your home.

    Best of luck to you.

  • 18 years ago

    what difference does it make what brand of material,i'm not making it difficult?,if you need more info ask,dont be an idiot about it,all the materials that were used are of industry standards and good quality,you are right,truefoam doesnt make "styrofoam" i was trying to explain what i had on the house,and dow does make board insulation that doesnt have shiplap,in fact i have never seen a 4X8 sheet of any brand with shiplap on it,
    all of the above is useless info,the rain is not coming through the insulation,it is getting in at a joint somewhere
    i wasnt on the job site all of the time but when i was the joints were taped,although looking back at some photos it looks like some werent,it shouldnt really matter if they were or not,the sheathing membrane should be keeping the rain out,not the taped joints,the amount of water coming in is minumal,about a 1/4 of a cup after 8 hours of hard rain/wind,without wind no leaks,and may not be a problem once the inside is properly sealed with vapour barrier,
    i guess i should be more specific with my questions,

    when both osb sheathing and external board insulation is used,is it normal practice to seal the windows to the board insulation or the osb?
    is it possible for the windows to sweat enough to produce enough mosture to wet the bottom of the window framing?keeping in mind that there is only partial vapour barrier installed and is not sealed to the windows in question,

  • 18 years ago

    thanks energy rater,that is some helpfull info,

  • 18 years ago

    Mightyanvil is extremely knowledgeable and can be of great help to you. The differences between specific products are great. I am certain that he was not asking for specifics to be difficult, but to assist you in finding solutions.

    Water intrusion can be a difficult issue to resolve, but it MUST be resolved before you continue with construction. Even before the siding/brick/stucco/whatever goes up the building should be water tight - that means that if 1/4 cup of water is entering you will have a huge problem once the walls are closed. A vapor barrier on the inside will only make matters worse, the water will be trapped in the wall cavity and mold and rot will destroy the walls.

    Posting pictures is the best way for people on this forum to help figure it out.

    You may also want to find a local structural engineer to inspect the construction on site. I would have him/her write a report to outline the problems and solutions and demand that your builder correct the problems accordingly before allowing the construction to continue.

  • 18 years ago

    I am the only architect who will tolerate the nonsense on this forum for any length of time. I give professional advice for free until someone gets nasty and personal, then I take a break. If your house is still leaking when I come back, I'll try to help you then. In the meantime, get a digital camera or learn a whole lot more about building design and work on your typing and your manners.

    Suzie, you know a lot about exterior wall detailing but you need to understand that structural engineers do not, unless they specialize in building failure investigation and only a small percentage do that for commercial buildings and even fewer do it for residential projects. If someone needs a site inspection about a leak, they should contact either a waterproofing consultant or an architect.

  • 18 years ago

    Hi Mightyvanvil - I agree. We were fortunate that we found a structural engineer who was an expert in solving water intrusion issues, but I guess not all structural engineers have such knowledge.

    To the OP - I think the bottom line is that you need to find an expert to do a site inspection who has water management/water intrusion knowledge.

  • 18 years ago

    "nonsense" i visit alot of forums and have expertise in several areas,one of which is not carpentry,:),i freely answer any questions politely although sometimes the answer seems obvious, i am trying to learn here,there is no such thing as a stupid question unless it has already been answered,i dont know who you think you are,but you arent god,i appreciate the time that you and other people spend to share their experience and trade knowledge,but belittling someone who doesnt know any better is not okay,
    back to the subject at hand,i checked out the grace vycor site,very help ,that is the way the guys flashed the windows,more or less,the used house wrap on the window frame,then ice/water shield on the tops and sides,then the window,siliconed in and screwed,then a flashing on top of the window,then they used house wrap,(typar is the brand name,sold by homehardware) then window trim,then flashing again on top of the trim,then siding,looking at pictures i think that the problem is with the way they joined the housewrap to the window frame housewrap,i have already made an appointment for another carpenter to come and give me his opinion,i am trying to educate myself beforehand so i can ask/provide the answers he may ask

  • 18 years ago

    honda03- You can post as many "facts" as you like, but without pictures of the installation they are meaningless. All of the posters above were trying to assist you even with the fact that you were tying their hands, so I'm really unsure why your attitude has been so hostile. Belittling the regulars is a sure way not to get any help in the future...

    And by the way, your posts are practically unreadable. Use some periods and some capitalization. Good grief!

  • 18 years ago

    honda03
    There have been other posters on this site that have had water intrusion problems. Most due to faulty building practices and lack of flashing. Naturally, I can't remember the details of the individual cases. If you did a search under leaking, etc. you will find a lot of information. Unfortunately, it takes a lot of time to figure out why and what can be done.

    Mighty Anvil and Energyrater know what they are talking about. I have been on this site for a while and have seen them give their time to many people. They will ask you specific questions, so that the correct answers and procedures can be given.
    Many of the experts on this site are no longer participating, but some of the home owners that have had the water issues and building issues might be. Susiesnowflake, Cindylouwho, lkplatow, are a few posters that might be able to assist you. I will try to link a previous poster (lkplatow's site below) that had water intrusion problems. Maybe, it can be of some help.
    Not trying to be an alarmist, but I have read some horror stories that resulted from water leaks. Please don't proceed without a correct solution.

    By the way, not trying to dump on you, but your post are very difficult to read.

    Good luck. I hope you are able to solve your problem.

    Here is a link that might be useful: lkplatow

  • 18 years ago

    It's a pleasure having you back. Please don't let one new poster send you back to lurking. Your presence here is a boon to all the regulars- posters and lurkers alike.

    Three cheers for Mighty Anvil!

    Boy do I ever feel like a fanboy, but you're my favorite.

  • 18 years ago

    It's difficult at best to explain in writing situations that crop up on a build. Pictures are a big help. Folks like mighty anvil offer their advise that they normally get paid quite handsomely for for free and should not only be respected, but appreciated. We all have something to offer giving/getting advise, sharing positive and negative experiences and it is okay to disagree as long as it's done w/ respect and class. No reason to be diming on one another, there's no room for it.

  • 18 years ago

    There are so many possibilities for water to penetrate a window installation that without specific accurate information about all of the materials and how they were assembled, anyone willing to help would have to describe all of the possibilities and might still not touch on the problem.

    I design buildings for a living and no one pays me to make guesses. Why would I want to come here and do it?

    You will need good construction photos and accurate details through the head and jambs in order to get a useful response from anyone.

    But don't do it for me; I won't be responding unless you apologize for calling me an idiot and learn to type.

  • 18 years ago

    Mightyanvil, sorry that you have to get so little respect.

    With the hostility that hondo03 demonstrates here I wonder who he pissed off on his build that is now getting "even".

    It wouldn't be the first time that a tradesman got fed up with the owner builder.