I have the same issue with a Whirlpool electric wall oven, in Canada, a year old, the finish is flaking under the broiler element on the top and little shards of porcelain fall into the food I am cooking/baking. Whirlpool denies any problem with the oven finish. I never self cleaned it as it invariably damages something in the oven, but I've used it regularly. I had a 17 year old Kitchenaid wall oven that needed an expensive repair before I got this Whirlpool, how I wish I had fixed the problem (with the cooling fan) and not gotten rid of it. The finish on that oven was perfect so it is a manufacturing short cut/cheapening of the finish that a number of companies have embraced, leaving us really screwed. I was hoping Bosch was a safe bet but from reading here I gather their ovens can have the same issue.

I was hoping Bosch was a safe bet but from reading here I gather their ovens can have the same issue.

I have concluded that this issue happens across brands, and the only truly safe bet is getting an oven with a stainless steel interior. Those are not very common, but they do exist in specialty devices. My Miele CSO and my Miele SpeedOven both have that material. I really like both of these appliances, but they are unusual in many ways. So, they might not work for everybody. Most importantly, they are only 24" wide. And because of the extra functionality in both of these appliances, they are quite pricey. I don't believe Miele puts stainless steel into their regular convection ovens.

The other option would be to look for a gas range. Anecdotally, they seem to have fewer (no?) problems with flaking enamel. I am not sure, it is well understood why the enamel is failing like this. So, I can't tell whether gas inherently has an advantage in this situation (e.g. because of difference in placement of the heating element) or whether we have incomplete data and gas ovens are affected, but we simply don't know about it.

My LG blue-lined oven was nearly two years old in Jan. 2022, and had been used a couple of times. When I finally needed to use the self-cleaning option (that's what we all want, isn't it??), I noticed a blue chip in the middle of the oven -- about the size of a dime. So, I did an Internet search and found many references to customer complaints about this with several different manufacturers. I paid $899 + tax for my oven. Wrote to company that sold it to me. After several escalating emails from me, They told me to take it up with mfgr. I told them I wasn't doing that, that other complaints referenced inability to get an answer from LG, they needed to stand behind what they were selling, that this was a piece of junk and that I wanted a refund and removal of the oven. And sent them internet info stating that one customer purchased oven from Home Depot; they immediately replaced her oven. Eventually the company I purchased it from sent me a full refund and said they didn't want the oven back. I'm not buying another oven with this beautiful, but potentially harmful, blue lining.

Time to start class action lawsuits. Wolf faced one in 2018 from what I see. This story tells you that the Kitchenaid manual warns this can happen with self cleaning. https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2020/09/21/you-dont-want-this-ingredient-in-your-brownies-porcelain-lining-can-chip-off-in-some-ovens-its-a-huge-concern/

Well, the end result to my claim with Whirlpool was a dead end. They would give me a discount on a new oven, but don’t have any in stock. no accountability or responsibility from Whirlpool at alll

I contacted Consumer Protection Ontario and their reply: Thank you for contacting Consumer Protection Ontario at the Ministry of Government and Consumer Services.

We confirm receipt of your inquiry and have reviewed the incoming communication.

We will not take action at this time for the following reason(s):

• Your concern focuses on a warranty or quality of goods/service dispute that is more appropriately pursued in civil court.

Looks like we need to start a class action lawsuit against these companies. If I don't get satisfaction from the place I bought it from, I will use my free legal advice that comes with my home insurance to look into this.

Search the 'net for "customer complaints about blue-lined oven flaking problems." The results will help get a refund or a different replacement from the company that sold it to you. These companies that sell this junk need to stand behind what they sell.

Lisa: Go back to the company that sold you this dangerous,, inferior product. I had to contact them several times. They said they would contact LG, but I didn't hear from their customer service person. So I wrote another email to ALL the company employees, starting with the president, the ceo, the coo, etc. Finally, this got some action. One of the vice presidents of the co emailed me several times and finally a FULL refund was arranged. Be persistent!

Go to your local news station, tag them on your social media, just keep fighting it. I had the same thing with Jenn Air on my $7500 range. They ended up replacing mine. This is a known problem across the board and unacceptable.

To update my experience, we were able to get Whirlpool to buy back our range at 100% of the cost we paid for it even though it was 1-2 years past the warranty. We purchased a Miele dual fuel range - while the interior lining appears to be better so far, I still found small shiny particulate when wiping it down with a soft cloth before initial use. I have not checked it regularly but did not see any additional particulate the last time I wiped it down. We've owned it less than 1 year, hopefully it holds up over time.

Edit - we have never and will never use the self-cleaning feature.

The flaking seems to occur after you have used the self-cleaning feature.

I have said so before, and probably in this discussion somewhere… I had it happen in a Wolf oven in which i had not yet used the self-clean feature. I find that irrelevant to any discussion with a manufacturer, or in advising people, because the appliance should maintain its integrity throughout the use of any and all features it has and we paid for.

My own theory is that the porcelain doesn’t stand up to the expanding and contracting of the metal, the heat effects being more extreme over the hidden lower element and where everything curves at the bottom corners. It does make some sense that the even higher heat of self-clean may provoke it sooner. But in ovens with the issue, I believe it would likely happen eventually… and, mostly, shouldn’t happen at all.

Seems like Gaggenau has it figured out. Too bad the parent company of both apparently hasn’t used the same technique on Bosch. I’m glad to see some of you are at least getting companies to respond. But this all sure makes it hard to buy anything and know we won’t also be buying into major headaches.

There's been a few class action lawsuits against Wolf, but I don't know if there's been any settlement on them. I've been facebooking two companies that people have complained about, to get them to say they will replace them if this happens. Then, if I do get satisfaction with my Samsung, I will buy another brand and keep the communication with these companies as proof. They aren't admitting they have an issue so far. The one says a couple people on the internet complaining doesn't indicate there's a problem. Well, 3% of the people complain, the rest walk away and tell their friends. I've talked to a few people that haven't had any problems, but none of them have used the self clean feature either. This type of customer service is just appalling. I grew up in the day when products lasted, and companies stood behind their product. I can't and won't get used to this.

This has happened to my new Jenn Air too. I have used the self cleaning maybe 2 times since remodeling 3 years ago. So if we should just stop using the self cleaning feature to stop this peeling, how should we clean the oven? I thought you weren’t supposed to use oven cleaner and manually clean a self cleaning oven. Also - I don’t think it’s only self cleaning that does this. I think it’s just cooking with high temp too. I wiped some peeling flakes off the bottom of mine recently and then made bread at 475 soon after that and had more peeling.

@CeCex6, it’s definitely not due to only using the self-clean feature, because i had it happen in one of my Wolf ovens that hadn’t been self-cleaned yet. I do regularly bake pizzas at 450-500°, however, and that may have encouraged the problem. -And I found that once it started, using the oven at all could bring on more.

My theory has been that a combination of the hidden lower element and the heat with contraction/expansion of the metal was too much for the porcelain to bear. But the oven manufacturers should be putting out a product that can support their promised functions, including using the higher heat and self-clean. My Gaggenau oven has done it now for years. I would be glad to deal eith an exposed element if I could get the baking performance (especially like I got with my Wolfs) without the porcelain issues!

As far as cleaning, if you don’t want to use self-clean, you can make a baking soda paste and let it soak on any spills or you can try steaming it by heating water or vinegar-water solution. I can’t say how it’ll work for you. I can caution you to be very careful wiping out your oven that has broken porcelain! By experience I know it can result in shards of the glass in your hand and plenty of blood…

Lg Gas range with blue ”easy clean” oven . flaking oieces of glass type shards into our food . LG will give a refund on the one uear old appliance .

Bought a GE wall oven since the previous model was great and lasted over 15 years. Used the self clean all the time in my previous GE oven with no issues. Fast forward to the new purchase GE oven and after using self clean due to stains on the bottom, the black bubbled off and when wiped down it was like scraping metal against metal and exposed the metal underneath. GE states this is just cosmetic and they have "never" seen this happen before on this product model JTS3000SN1SS. There resolution is for me to buy another from them since it's out of warranty. Um mine is just a little over 2 years old this should not happen at all. Reading the comments it's making sense that it's the combination of the hidden element, high heat, and using the self cleaning function. The black interior surface meant to keep the oven looking cleaning is NOT working. One should not have to worry about using built in self cleaning option or baking at high temperatures. Isn't that part of how the oven is suppose to work?

Are there any ovens out there that don't have this problem?

@hu-568622619, I agree that if the feature is included and used to market the oven, it should work without causing problems. As far as what ovens don’t have the problem… from this discussion I’d guess maybe Miele and and I haven’t seen complaints with either Thermador or Gaggenau. My Gagg is still ok after several years. When I looked at them with input from the distributor’s rep, Thermador, as part of the BSH family, seemed to be an expensive version of Bosch, rather than a less expensive version of Gagg, so what’s true of Bosch (problems mentioned above) may be true of Thermador. There may be fewer complaints of these brands, because of fewer owners due to price? Hard to know.

" Are there any ovens out there that don't have this problem? "

I'm 2 1/2 years in with my GE Profile oven, bake/roast/air fry at 450 to 550 F, & no problems yet.

But I'm deathly afraid of the self-cleaning feature & jump through hoops to avoid a very dirty oven. My routine keeps the oven pretty clean, so I've not needed the self-clean feature.

What seems to be working well is using the steam clean feature (believe it or not). I use it after I've roasted meats or air fried meats or oily vegetables. Then after the oven cools down a bit from steaming, I spritz the oven with Windex and wipe with a paper towel, or sometimes I'll use a soapy dishcloth (Dawn). I'll use Weimann's cooktop cream on the glass if it's splattered, or Weimann's Max cooktop cleaner with the plastic scrubber if very splattered & dried on hard, & I'll use Weimann's Max + scrubber on baked on blobs on the porcelain. If the oven has lots of greasy, carbonized splatter, I'll spot clean with Blue Cap Easy Off (no lye), but I've hardly had to use that. Fortunately, the convection fan in my oven doesn't blow splatter around like my old KitchenAid did.

There are downsides to this. 1. Jumping through hoops is right -- I do this cleaning very frequently, & it's maybe a 10 minute chore. But it's better than frying the electronics or weakening the porcelain, & it beats spending a day cleaning an oven with caustic cleaners & all the messy hard work that entails.

2. The steam clean feature needs to start with a cool oven. Don't want to thermal shock the porcelain by pouring cool water on a hot oven floor. But I fear the grease will harden while the oven cools down, so sometimes I'll just stick a cake pan of water on a rack while the oven is still hot after removing the food. That steams the oven cavity pretty well, and when cleaning up after dinner, then I'll spritz the oven & wipe down, or wipe down with a soapy dish cloth.

3. Doesn't work for sugary spill overs like apple pie filling. Blue Cap Easy Off needed. (Also teach DH to use a baking sheet underneath fruit pies.)

4. Am I rusting out the oven or electronics by steaming so frequently? Could be.

Yes, I've seen the thread about Aqualift, and the posters are right: Steam Clean functions won't clean a dirty oven. But as a preventative for greasy film build up, to soften cheesy spillovers, to keep baked on spots fairly scrubbable, it seems to be working. The porcelain is still in great shape.

awm03, you're using the steam-clean feature as it's likely intended ... after each baking instance that generates soil in the oven to assist with immediate wipe-cleaning of it.

I have an LG induction range (LSIL6336F). After one month of ownership, the blue enamel has already scraped off where the racks rub on the sides, and we found small pieces of enamel.

We have not used the self-clean or even the low-temp steam clean. We've run convection baking as high as 475 °F and we've briefly broiled on the low-power setting—not exactly a torture test.

This oven does not have a bottom element, by the way. Just the boiler (top) and conection element (rear). I liked the lack of a bottom element because the modern hidden elements can be very hard to replace.

I'm glad to learn more about this problem here but very disappointed to hear how common it is across brands. I'm not sure whether to ask Costco for a replacement of the same model or for a different brand.

The blue interior is NOT the only enamel that is flaking off small glass like pieces. I have a Frigidaire Gallery Gas Double Walled oven that is less than a year old and tiny pieces of enamel are on the floor of the both ovens. I'm sure most people do not realize that this is not burnt food and many are using their ovens with pieces of enamel flying about.

I know that some Combi Steam Ovens and Speed Ovens have NO enamel, and instead use stainless steel. But as somebody pointed out, they are very specific ovens and usually much more expensive.

Knowing that it's not just the Blue enamel, but ANY enamel can be prone to this chipping issue .... Does anybody know of any "regular" ovens or convection ovens that DON'T have any enamel?

What else is out there??

Yes same issue with GE Cafe dark grey.

I’m having the same issue with my 2yr old LG gas range.
I ran the self clean cycle and now the blue interior is flaking off. I had multiple calls with LG. By my 3rd call they said they wouldn’t do anything because the range is out of warranty. I bought an extended warranty through the appliance store and they are trying to tell me this is just a cosmetic issue and is not covered under my warranty.
Blue porcelain/ glass flakes chipping off the interior of the oven and potentially being ingested does not seem like a cosmetic issue.

That's the same thing Samsung said to me. I had the same comment back to them about ingesting the porcelain. The next oven I buy will have the element exposed. I've read where people think it may have something to do with the hidden elements causing the porcelain to heat up. I don't know if this is actually true or not. I guess I'll have a better idea when I buy my next one.

This issue is on-going across MANY brands, due to the fact that the heating coils are no longer exposed like they used to be.

Not sure when the change was made, but at one point in time a few Decades ago..., manufacterers decided to remove the coils from the bottom of the oven and submerge them below the oven floor. This was for a cleaner and more modern asthetic, but also easier for cleaning. But since the elements are below the oven floor, the enamal will flake off. If you run your convection fan (as most people do) you are sending tiny shards of glass all into your food, potentially.

I've seen somebody say they were so sick and tired of this issue that they ripped their oven out completely and rely solely on their stainless steel interior appliances:

- Steam Oven (or combination steam oven w/ a brioler at the top)

- Advantium Oven 5--in--1 microwave oven

- Toaster Oven

etc

While this may not work for some people's cooking habbits, they said they haven't missed their oven at all. Their food comes out quicker because the caviites of those other appliances are about half the size as what their normal oven was.

If you think about it, how often do you use your oven and think, "gee, I wish I had MORE space in here." Probably never.

Do we really need to preheat a massive 5 cubic foot oven for 30 minutes, just to bake a 3 inch thick slice of salmon?

I know this isn't completely relevant to the OP's original question, but perhaps a solution to those furious with their ovens chipping. Imagine the things you most-often cook, and Think to yourself : "could my meals be made in other appliances instead?"

You have some good points, but if you are a baker, you use your big oven. Also, I have so many of these smaller appliances, that I don't want any more. I'd prefer if these companies were taken to court over this and lost big. I know my next one won't be the same company that told me it was cosmetic and I won't buy one with the hidden element. Hopefully that solves the problem.

But, @M DB, i would gladly deal with an exposed element to avoid dealing with this issue over and over, but do any exist without a hidden element?

Anothre thing: there are many threads on this site about the Wolf interior ovens chipping on the top, sides, and even the door. So the hidden element might be a PART of the equation, not the full story.

How do we explain the chipping enamel on the door of people's ovens if there are no coils there? Maybe the enamel as a whole just can't handle anything above a certain heat temperature, but the oven floor is usually the first to go. Not sure.

To the point about multiple appliances, yes that can be annoying. That said, I've seen many, and I mean many, folks say their combination single steam oven has totally replaced their need for a regular oven. They bake, the broil, they steam, they can make just about everything. And the interior is stainless steel. Pricey though.

But yes, I'm sure certain things like big racks of cookies, would be preferable in the big regular oven. Would be great if these companies could be sued big time. Or just come out with a better design.

Rome410, yes they do still sell ranges with the exposed element. The one I was looking at also had the coils for the burner and not the glass top - which is another thing I don't like. The coils have their downside, but the glass gets stuff burned on easily and you can't just clean them with soap and water. Then I'm also concerned I may drop something on it and shatter it. I haven't het, but I'm sure it's an accident waiting to happen. Mary Weber has a point with the enamel peeling off the doors where there's no element. My oven has only done it on the bottom though.

I don’t remember reading about doors having the problem. Since we’ve seen far more complaints about bottoms, I’d be happy to take a chance with exposing the elements to solve the majority of the issues.

I was wondering if there were still wall ovens with exposed elements. I told a repair tech once, who was here to replace an oven, that I’d like to get a good, basic oven that just baked and baked well without fancy features. He said there was no such thing. He said basic ovens weren’t just less expensive, they were cheap. They have fewer features, but also skimp on things like accuracy to set temps, and insulation to hold those temps and have any even baking. Seems like there’s no way for the consumer to win, or at least know they’ll get something trouble free.

In case it helps, I had a ceramic topped range that cleaned up pretty well with Barkeeper’s Friend and I used that successfully on my daughter’s glass top recently. (And that range oven had no convection, an exposed element, and seemed to bake evenly on 2 racks. Or maybe I was less aware- or picky- then.)

I have a cleaner to clean the top, but often have to use a glass scraper to scrape off the burned on food and you eventually get scratches. Just overall a pain to keep looking nice and then the chance of it breaking if you drop something on it. It hasn't happened yet, but......fingers are crossed. The consumer can't win with anything anymore, not just ovens. Nothing lasts like in the good old days, but hey, they are energy efficient, so all should be good!!! We need some laws with teeth against these companies, but now I'm dreaming.

Samsung oven does the same thing and they won’t even acknowledge the issue when you bring it to their attention. They wait until your warranty is out and refuse to do anything. Buyer beware!!

Mine is a Samsung and they told me it was cosmetic. It's ridiculous what these big businessess are getting away with. Never again will I buy a Samsung. The only reason I bought this one is because that's pretty much what I could get with the features I wanted at the start of the pandemic. I couldn't even go in and look at it. I had cips break on the shelf in their fridge I bought at the same time. They did nothing about that. Wanted to give me a recommendation of who to call over to replace plastic clips worth a couple cents, and I'd pay a service call on top of that. They wouldn't even send me these in the mail. I used Duck Tape instead.

Mine is GE cafe with black/gray interior that chipped also. I think it is possibly manufacturing issues.

Since the Government of Canada issued a recall notice on my Samsung range for the burners that turn on by leaning on them, they provided a link for consumers to report incidents. I filed a report about the enamel peeling on the inside after using the self clean function. If anyone is interested, here`s the link: https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/consumer-product-safety/report-incident.html Click on the consumer tab at the top, and scroll down to the Submit a Consumer Report button.

As a follow up to my complaint I filed with the Canadian government with this issue, I wanted to you everyone know I received a call from Samsung. Suddenly they seem interested in sending someone out to look at it. I'm not holding my breath, as I'm sure they'll stick to their story that it's "just cosmetic". My original complaint was filed Sept. 3/24, and I received a call yesterday, Sept. 10/24, followed by an email since I didn't answer the call. I will keep you informed.

Just an update. Samsung sent over a repairman after my complaint to the government. It was deemed irreparable. They sent me a ridiculous offer with a 14 day time limit to respond. It was a bit more than half what I paid. I was told it was because it was out of warranty. I told them my original complaint was within the warranty period. I was told to send an email with that info. I sent that info, with the email I sent them in 2022 proving this complaint went in well before the warranty period. That was 13 days ago. Still no reply. I called again and getting nothing but the run around. I was told to complain to Consumer Protection in Ontario, who told me to file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau. That's my next phone call.

Wow. I’m glad you’re holding them to the warranty. It’s, of course, outrageous how long this has taken from your first complaint in 2022. -And they sent you a time limit for response?! That’s so wrong. You paid a good amount for a new, working oven and they’ve left you for 2 years with an appliance that’s ’irreparable.’ Seems like they owe you for that as well as the unit, although I know that’s probably a pipedream. Best wishes in your continued battle!

They don't realize I will be a thorn in their backside. I'll call every day if I have to. I just sent a complaint to the Better Business Bureau. Waiting to hear back from them. The problem is most people don't complain. Without the complaints going to the Federal Government, nothing will be done. I'm trying to get the word out to complain, complain, complain. I've spent many hours dealing with this, so I'm not giving up easily at this point.

Update: Samsung thinks that their offer of a little over half of what I paid for my stove as reasonable. But since they 'deeply value my loyalty', they are offering me 15% off an appliance at their on line store. This is because it's outside of the standard warranty period. I replied that my initial complaint, which I provided proof of, was prior to this warranty running out. They wouldn't cover it under warranty when I first complained. They said it was cosmetic. I stand firm on wanting a full refund. All I can hope for is people post the link to the Federal Government in Canada and get as many people as they can to share it. If you are in another country, search for a link and share it. The gentleman from Health Canada that I spoke to said they need to get the complaints in and they are trying to get the word out on where people can send these complaints to. Here's the link again. Please share it on your social media page. If you don't trust my link, just search the government for it, it's within Health Canada. https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/consumer-product-safety/report-incident.html

Final update. After contacting the Better Business Bureau, Samsung went back and forth with their offers. They offered me 15% off another Samsung product, along with $972.39 plus tax for a $1700 range. It was devalued because it was out of warranty. That was because they wouldn't cover it when I complained when it was under warranty. I told them offering my 15% off another Samsung product was an insult. I already told them I won't buy another product with the Samsung name on it. Then they changed their offer to $972.39 plus tax, plus another $200 (no tax). Then they went back to the other offer with the 15% off. Still way below what I paid. I also told them I had the added expense of removing and reinstalling a stair lift, that shouldn't have to be removed so soon after purchasing a stove. Then they have the nerve to say they'll issue a cheque approximately 2 weeks after they have received the damaged one. Needless to say, my case is closed as I won't accept anything less than the full price of what I paid. But, they say they value my loyalty. I had to tell them that I wasn't loyal, and that's not how you treat a customer that you say you value. I'm really hoping they are held accountable by the Canadian Government, but I'm not holding my breath. To all who have this issue, please contact the government, whether or not you want to be compensated. If the company won't cover it under warranty, contact the government right away, so they can't pull this one on you.

I am amazed and disheartened that you could prove you first contacted them within the warranty period, but they’re still treating you as if this happened beyond it. Definitely never buying Samsung! I think this is the worst manufacturer’s response I’ve heard, although they all seem to try to skate around it. I hope your government helps.

That's the way I feel. If anyone is interested in seeing the full communication, go to Better Business Bureau, in the find dialoge box, type Samsung Electronics Canada (it'll come up where you can select it), select read complaints and look for the one where the initial complaint date is Oct. 30/24. Some of the communication is blocked by BBB, but it was just things I said like "I emailed the business I bought it from...". You can still get the idea of what the communication was. I don't know why they even blocked out what they did.

@mdb I completly agree. We have become complacement accepting poor manufacturing and corporate greed. message boards like these are important to collect these issues but we need to tell Govt. Or collectively organize a petition demanding better health and safety standards. We are under extreme cost of living conditions and not having a healthy safe meal available is adding to stress mental and physical and no one should have to replace a unit over this. We need an engineer to go back in time and remind people how $399 ovens from 1990 are still prestine. Beyond frusting and i truly empatize with everyone.

I've told Samsung to send their engineers back to school. The fridge I bought is another story. Not a health and safety issue, but just junk. I went to a seminar once and I'll never forget, the guy talking said 3% of the people complain and the rest walk away and tell their friends. I'm one of the 3%, but I also walk away and tell anyone who'll listen. Buyer beware. Unfortunately, they can get away with it because there's no enforcement by the government or better business bureau. From what I see these big manufacturers are all the same. Buy the best of the junk is what you are left with.

I have a Bosch series 6 pyrolytic self cleaning oven. I am careful when I cook so did a three and a half hour clean cycle just after two years and the next day when I wiped it out with damp paper towel, the enamel had crazed and was flaking off.

I contacted Bosch and sent photos and they said that I had done something to weaken the enamel which caused it to flake away when I did the clean. Absolute rubbish! I’m going to contact Consumer Affairs. will never buy Bosch again.

What a sad state of affairs! - At this point nor sure if there is an oven on the market that doesn't flake and consumers get blamed - unless you go SUPER HIGH HIGH END (not that Bosch aren't expensive but....)

:(

The problem is people do not complain. When I contacted the Canadian Government, they told me when they need the complaints. The problem is people are too busy to be on the phone for hours dealing with these companies. After my complaint, I spent several hours dealing with Samsung which was a total waste of time. I filed a complaint with the Better Business Bureau, not holding my breath for good reason. My communication is on their website for all to see. Again, anyone in Canada, file a complaint here: https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/consumer-product-safety/report-incident.html Click on the consumer tab at the top, and scroll down to the Submit a Consumer Report button. Anyone in another country, try to find the right department and file that complaint. My next oven will not be a self clean oven, as it appears the high heat is the cause with the hidden elements.